Orange Blossom Beer

[brewshki]

This is going to be my first attempt at any kind of self-designed recipe. That may be a bit too kind for the amount I am sure to borrow from other recipes.

My sister is getting married in June of 2016. When I first started brewing and brought home my first "good" beer, she and her fiancé instantly mentioned an orange blossom beer. I had thought about it for a while and then they started making more and more comments about it and possible having it for the wedding.

Well, I am going to go for it. I have been trying to research recipes for it, but it is very hard to come by. Therefore, I am going to start now and hopefully have a good recipe in time to make a sizable amount for the wedding. Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated. I mainly am making this thread so that I can update it later and create a resource for someone later on who would like a recipe.

Thanks!

Brewshki

 

[BigFloppy]

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/nsearch/?cat=&q=honey+bee+ale#

 

[brewshki]

i am pretty sure that the kit you are linking me to uses orange blossom honey. We grew up around orange groves and the smell of the honey is not really the best comparison. I am also thinking it may get lost in fermentation. My plan is to actually use orange blossom water, which smells much more similar, at bottling.

 

[BigFloppy]

NO, this is a clover honey brew but would give you a good idea what an orange blossom honey could be (and yes, the original is a great brew)

 

[unclebrazzie]

Orange blossom beer can swing two ways I think.

1) subtle.
A light floral touch to add to a moderately hoppy blonde.
I did a pomegranate-orange-blossom experiment two years ago and it was a solid idea which one day I hope to repeat in earnest.
Saison would be able to do something useful with th blossoms too.

2) in your face
Think moroccan/Egyptian desserts and orange blossom water being used as refreshing hand-wash in Arabian restaurants. It's a fine fragrance, but very heady when applied liberally. Not something you can drink lots of, but in the right beer, it would certainly bring a festive oomph. Orange blossom quad makes sense to me.

 

[brisboy]

I had this orange blossom wheat beer recently and loved the delicate honey lingering aftertaste.
http://www.mildurabrewery.com.au/the-beers/main-range/honey-wheat

From their description it looks like they actually use a lager yeast which is interesting for a wheat beer. They also list malts and hops on their website.
Pale and Wheat malts.
Super Pride of Ringwood and Perle hops.

Hope you end up making something you and your friends love.

Edit: Actually, I'm reminded by @unclebrazzie 's mention of saisons that I just put some honey into a Munich malted saison, but I can't really comment as it's only day 2 in the fermenter.

 

[specharka]

Orange blossom beer can swing two ways I think.

1) subtle.
A light floral touch to add to a moderately hoppy blonde.
I did a pomegranate-orange-blossom experiment two years ago and it was a solid idea which one day I hope to repeat in earnest.
Saison would be able to do something useful with th blossoms too.

2) in your face
Think moroccan/Egyptian desserts and orange blossom water being used as refreshing hand-wash in Arabian restaurants. It's a fine fragrance, but very heady when applied liberally. Not something you can drink lots of, but in the right beer, it would certainly bring a festive oomph. Orange blossom quad makes sense to me.

Halfway between works wonders as well. A nice vinous dubbel would complement the clover without being overpowering in the ester department.

However, since it's a wedding, I'm guessing you'll want more of a session beer than a palate wrecker like a quad.

As such I would recommend a Belgian Wit, as wheat beers tend to treat floral additions favorably. Lowly-hopped, with plenty of citrus...curacao and coriander at knockout, orange blossom honey as a secondary addition, or the water at bottling.

 

[brewshki]

I thought about the saison as well and the belgian options sounds awesome. my problem is that I was talking to the groom to get an idea of the types of beer he likes and it was coors light, stella, hangar 24 orange wheat, and blue moon. i have never attempted a pilsner and I am thinking to avoid that simply due to time constraints. If I make it an ale, I have plenty of time to mess with the recipe and get it right.

I also think I have to avoid the saison. Especially for a wedding, I do not think it would be well received. The groom has also mentioned how "weird" they are. Don't worry, education will follow at a later time, but not for his wedding. My two initial thoughts are to do a blonde fermented on the cooler side or an american wheat. Both will low hopped because I know anything towards pale ale or IPA won't be the most popular. In terms of intensity, that is where the experimentation is going to come in. I feel like I want it to be mostly an aroma component and remain relatively subtle. I am not a fan of big floral tastes that a lot of things with rose water produce.

I am undecided about the belgian wit approach. Shock top and blue moon were on the list, but I wonder if the orange peel and the coriander will be more overpowering than I want. I do a lot of hefes with the WLP 300 strain and have a little experience with the American Wheat version. The 300 always requires a blow off tube and some baby-sitting until it calms down. If I am about to churn out some serious production (the conservative estimate as of now is 180 people) I do not really know if I want to deal with it. If anyone know of the american strain as being tamer, let me know.

Has anyone worked with orange extract? I am debating on whether or not I want this beer to be a full orange experience or just the aroma of the blossom. Is orange peel better for this purpose? I like the idea of the extract because I would be able to dial it in more easily and more consistently.

Luckily, I have two Mr Beer fermenters from my beginning days that I will be using to split batches. I am going to do 4 or 5 gallon all grain batches and split them into the two fermenters. At that point, I will apply whatever difference I will be testing. I think at this point, it will be orange blossom water in one at bottling and then orange blossom water and orange extract at bottling in the other.

Any thoughts on if I need to sanitize the water?

 

[brewshki]

I guess I forgot to say what style I think I am going to start with. I think it'll be a blonde!

 

[Aristotelian]

NO, this is a clover honey brew but would give you a good idea what an orange blossom honey could be (and yes, the original is a great brew)

If I understand correctly, OP is not talking about "orange blossom honey". He is talking about using actual orange blossoms, like some cultures make infused water. So it would not be anything like a honey beer.

I do think a wheat beer would be a good base, since they often use dried or fresh orange zest as a flavoring. Add it at flameout or dry hop so the flavor does not get lost in the boil. You will want a very mild bittering hop like Hallertauer so as not to compete with the flowers.

This says 1 dozen petals to 1/2 cup water for orange blossom water. i am not sure if you would want more or less for beer.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5632112_make-own-orange-flower-water.html

Are you in a climate where you can go to an orchard and get fresh flowers? That would be a great touch and would certainly put this over the top!

 

[brewshki]

If I understand correctly, OP is not talking about "orange blossom honey". He is talking about using actual orange blossoms, like some cultures make infused water. So it would not be anything like a honey beer.

I do think a wheat beer would be a good base, since they often use dried or fresh orange zest as a flavoring. Add it at flameout or dry hop so the flavor does not get lost in the boil. You will want a very mild bittering hop like Hallertauer so as not to compete with the flowers.

This says 1 dozen petals to 1/2 cup water for orange blossom water. i am not sure if you would want more or less for beer.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5632112_make-own-orange-flower-water.html

Are you in a climate where you can go to an orchard and get fresh flowers? That would be a great touch and would certainly put this over the top!

my family is actually in the citrus business but it would be hard to get enough. where did you get only 12 petals from? that doesn't seem like enough. I also kinda like the idea of the water because of the consistency it would provide.

thank you for seeing that i don't want a honey beer

 

[Aristotelian]

my family is actually in the citrus business but it would be hard to get enough. where did you get only 12 petals from? that doesn't seem like enough. I also kinda like the idea of the water because of the consistency it would provide.

thank you for seeing that i don't want a honey beer

I'm sorry, I misquoted the article. It's 1/2 cup per dozen blossoms.

Fill a glass jar with distilled water and add the petals. The amount of water you will use depends on how many blossoms are available to you. A good rule of thumb is to use 1/2 cup of water for every dozen blossoms. When in doubt, use less water. If the orange flower water ends up being too strong, you can always add distilled water later. Let the jar sit in the sun for about a month.

 

[brewshki]

I'm sorry, I misquoted the article. It's 1/2 cup per dozen blossoms.



Fill a glass jar with distilled water and add the petals. The amount of water you will use depends on how many blossoms are available to you. A good rule of thumb is to use 1/2 cup of water for every dozen blossoms. When in doubt, use less water. If the orange flower water ends up being too strong, you can always add distilled water later. Let the jar sit in the sun for about a month.

Sounds like a fun experiment. I think I'm going to stick to commercial stuff I can buy for this though. I don't want my lack of abilities to make it correctly to affect my beer

 

[joe_four_strings]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=536830

I had very good feedback from this one. Maybe you can use it as a guide.

 

[brewshki]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=536830



I had very good feedback from this one. Maybe you can use it as a guide.

Thanks Joe. Looks good and came out very pretty. How did you get the orange color?

 

[Calichusetts]

I went through an orange blossom kick for a decent year or two. Here are some tips that helped me:

Orange blossom honey as sugar adjunct during boil. Add at flameout. Find REAL orange blossom honey, supermarkets are usually crap.

Orange zest at flameout. 4-6 oranges.

Citrus hops at flameout. Even think outside the box with summit or manderina bavaria (this is a very subtle hop)

Super light grain bill. Wheat and pils work well. Let the orange shine.

Orange blossom honey towards the end of fermentation. Add directly, don't boil.

Zest "dry hop" with oranges.

Finally, maybe consider a tincture of honey and zest. Boil a cup of water and add it to a french press with orange zest and honey. Honey will dissolve and heat will sanitize. I add this to my keg and chill immediately to prevent further fermentation stripping away any aroma. I guess you could do this at bottling and consider the tincture your priming sugar.

Regardless, if bottling, use orange blossom honey. Dont boil, just heat and dissolve, cool then add to bucket.

I've never had any sanitation issues and have used these techniques on nearly 100 batches. I bottled with orange blossom honey as my priming sugar on nearly every batch for the first three years I brewed.

 

[brewshki]

I went through an orange blossom kick for a decent year or two. Here are some tips that helped me:

Orange blossom honey as sugar adjunct during boil. Add at flameout. Find REAL orange blossom honey, supermarkets are usually crap.

Orange zest at flameout. 4-6 oranges.

Citrus hops at flameout. Even think outside the box with summit or manderina bavaria (this is a very subtle hop)

Super light grain bill. Wheat and pils work well. Let the orange shine.

Orange blossom honey towards the end of fermentation. Add directly, don't boil.

Zest "dry hop" with oranges.

Finally, maybe consider a tincture of honey and zest. Boil a cup of water and add it to a french press with orange zest and honey. Honey will dissolve and heat will sanitize. I add this to my keg and chill immediately to prevent further fermentation stripping away any aroma. I guess you could do this at bottling and consider the tincture your priming sugar.

Regardless, if bottling, use orange blossom honey. Dont boil, just heat and dissolve, cool then add to bucket.

I've never had any sanitation issues and have used these techniques on nearly 100 batches. I bottled with orange blossom honey as my priming sugar on nearly every batch for the first three years I brewed.

thanks for the advice! I think I am going to avoid the honey though and go straight for the water. That does confirm my idea of adding at bottling. Any thoughts on if orange blossom water, similar to rose water, needs to be or can be sanitized?

 

[Aristotelian]

thanks for the advice! I think I am going to avoid the honey though and go straight for the water. That does confirm my idea of adding at bottling. Any thoughts on if orange blossom water, similar to rose water, needs to be or can be sanitized?

Won't that water down your brew? I would think that the water is such low concentration that you either wouldn't taste it or you would have to dilute your beer a LOT to be able to taste the orange blossom flavor.

It would absolutely have to be sanitized, but I think you could do it simply by boiling and cooling before adding to your fermenter, but I think you would be better off adding a bunch of fresh or dried flowers right at flameout.

 

[brewshki]

Won't that water down your brew? I would think that the water is such low concentration that you either wouldn't taste it or you would have to dilute your beer a LOT to be able to taste the orange blossom flavor.



It would absolutely have to be sanitized, but I think you could do it simply by boiling and cooling before adding to your fermenter, but I think you would be better off adding a bunch of fresh or dried flowers right at flameout.

The product is actually extremely strong and is a distilled product. I know desserts that use it that use a tiny tiny amount. The local more beer shop uses the same product for an orange blossom beer they do. I don't think I will add any significant amount that could dilute it. I am worried about boiling it and driving off all of its flavor.

 

[unclebrazzie]

Zest "dry hop" with oranges.

Word of warning: citrus zeste contains a lot of essential oils (hence the fragrance) which are detrimental to head retention.
Plus: overdoing the zest bit can and will leave your beer smelling and tasting like washing up liquid.
Experience is a stern but fair mistress

 

[Calichusetts]

Interesting. Never had that issue. I do scrub the fruit first but have always had great results

 

[DoD_Ales]

After reading through the thread, It looks like the OP wants to make something similar to the Orange Blossom Blonde I made this summer. I liked it a lot and will probably try it again next summer.

It started with a fairly basic American Blonde using Pilsner with some wheat and flaked corn. Hopping was all noble, Saaz I think, and fairly low IBUs. Cooler ale temp fermentation using a clean American ale yeast with secondary. The big deal was adding 4 oz. of a H20 Orange Blossom extract to the bottling bucket. The flavor was subtle and floral, not orange juice like. It might be better to add extract twice, once at secondary and again at bottling. You can find the extract in mid-eastern grocery stores or from Amazon. I have my partial mash recipe in Beersmith at home if anyone is interested.

Edit: Checking the recipe after work. I used flaked oats, not flaked corn. The bittering addition was cascade and the aroma hops were Saaz. Next time I plan on bittering with a smaller amount of magnum.

 

[KyleWolf]

I think a belgian wit or as DoD_Ales said, an american blonde could work out well. Wits, because of their natural estery-ness would play well with orange blossom. The wit also fits in with a) the type of beer the fiance likes (blue moon) and b) doesn't require a lot of fermentation control.

 

[brewshki]

After reading through the thread, It looks like the OP wants to make something similar to the Orange Blossom Blonde I made this summer. I liked it a lot and will probably try it again next summer.

It started with a fairly basic American Blonde using Pilsner with some wheat and flaked corn. Hopping was all noble, Saaz I think, and fairly low IBUs. Cooler ale temp fermentation using a clean American ale yeast with secondary. The big deal was adding 4 oz. of a H20 Orange Blossom extract to the bottling bucket. The flavor was subtle and floral, not orange juice like. It might be better to add extract twice, once at secondary and again at bottling. You can find the extract in mid-eastern grocery stores or from Amazon. I have my partial mash recipe in Beersmith at home if anyone is interested.

Edit: Checking the recipe after work. I used flaked oats, not flaked corn. The bittering addition was cascade and the aroma hops were Saaz. Next time I plan on bittering with a smaller amount of magnum.

That is exactly what I am trying to do to! Anyway I could get the recipe off of you? I have only ever done kits so I am really out of my league with this project. But like someone said earlier, the experience will be great.

 

[brewshki]

I think a belgian wit or as DoD_Ales said, an american blonde could work out well. Wits, because of their natural estery-ness would play well with orange blossom. The wit also fits in with a) the type of beer the fiance likes (blue moon) and b) doesn't require a lot of fermentation control.

I totally agree! I am torn about where to go with it haha. Still have bought any ingredients to start so it is up in the air. Part of me is thinking of just getting one done to see what happens and then moving to the next. I should be brewing the first batch of it next week. I really need to get cracking and put off my other projects if I am going to do this right.

 

[slym2none]

Don't forget to use Mandarina Bavaria hops!

 

[DoD_Ales]

That is exactly what I am trying to do to! Anyway I could get the recipe off of you? I have only ever done kits so I am really out of my league with this project. But like someone said earlier, the experience will be great.

Orange Blossom Blonde
Blonde Ale (6 B)

Type: Partial Mash
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Final Bottling Vol: 4.75 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 20 May 2015
Brewer: DoD_Ales

Asst Brewer:
Equipment: My 5 Gal Polarware Brew Pot
Efficiency: 72.00 %

Partial Mash using BIAB.

Mash (152 deg, 60 minutes, biab)
3 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 31.6 %
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 2 10.5 %
12.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.9 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4 5.3 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.3 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.3 %

Boil
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 15.6 IBUs
3 lbs 4.0 oz Pilsner Liquid Extract [Boil for 15 min](3.5 SRM) Extract 8 34.2 %
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 5.6 IBUs

Fermentation
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)

Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
4.00 oz Orange Blossom Extract (Bottling 0.0 mins)

Next time I would probably use Magnum to bitter instead of Cascade.
Let me know how it turns out.

 

[brewshki]

Orange Blossom Blonde
Blonde Ale (6 B)

Type: Partial Mash
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Final Bottling Vol: 4.75 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage
Date: 20 May 2015
Brewer: DoD_Ales

Asst Brewer:
Equipment: My 5 Gal Polarware Brew Pot
Efficiency: 72.00 %

Partial Mash using BIAB.

Mash (152 deg, 60 minutes, biab)
3 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 31.6 %
1 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 2 10.5 %
12.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.9 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4 5.3 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.3 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 6 5.3 %

Boil
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 15.6 IBUs
3 lbs 4.0 oz Pilsner Liquid Extract [Boil for 15 min](3.5 SRM) Extract 8 34.2 %
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 5.6 IBUs

Fermentation
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)

Dry Hop/Bottling Ingredients
4.00 oz Orange Blossom Extract (Bottling 0.0 mins)

Next time I would probably use Magnum to bitter instead of Cascade.
Let me know how it turns out.

Thank you!

 

[brewshki]

I am assuming this is where beersmith would come in handy... I feel like if I try and tweak any recipes I find, i am going to throw them out of balance. I am literally torn between a blonde and a wit. Half an hour ago, I was convinced I was doing a wit and now I am thinking about the ease of the blonde and being able to make the orange blossom the star of the beer. The lure of the orange flavor in the wit it also strong.

 

[brewshki]

not recipe related, but we are going to build a nice draft wall with 3 or 4 taps for the wedding. It is going to be so cool. It may even be different beers on tap. I think I have decided that this recipe will be blonde or light ale based.