Options for barrel to purchase, what would you get?

[Rob2010SS]

Hey guys. Thanks to a recommendation from @TallDan in another thread, I have found 5 gallon barrels for sale at a local distillery. The 2 options are...
1. First use Rye Whiskey barrels
2. Second use Single Malt barrels

What would you pick? Target use is for a stout or 2, or 3, and then maybe some wild ales. What would you suggest as this is my first barrel purchase.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Rye barrel hands down!

 

[TallDan]

Are those both 5G? I didn't end up picking one up last night, decided that with almost 10G of BA beer on tap and the prospect of moving soon, the timing just isn't right for me.

 

[Auger]

I would probably be inclined toward the second use barrel. The issue is going to be, with a new barrel that small, if you keep the beer in it for very long the wood flavors are going to get overwhelming. It may still be an issue with the second use barrel but would likely be more manageable.

 

[TallDan]

Derp. Clearly didn't read.

I assume that the second use of the barrels was the single malt, what was the first use? Also, was the single malt barley or something else?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Are those both 5G? I didn't end up picking one up last night, decided that with almost 10G of BA beer on tap and the prospect of moving soon, the timing just isn't right for me.

@TallDan yes they're both 5gallons.

I would probably be inclined toward the second use barrel. The issue is going to be, with a new barrel that small, if you keep the beer in it for very long the wood flavors are going to get overwhelming. It may still be an issue with the second use barrel but would likely be more manageable.

I've heard that can be an issue. How long of a time frame are you referring to with "very long"? The other part of that question is once the beer is in the barrel, could you pull it out when it reaches a desired flavor and leave it in a carboy to continue aging? I know the risk there is oxygenation so would you just pull it out of the barrel when desired flavor is reached and bottle?

 

[Rob2010SS]

Derp. Clearly didn't read.

I assume that the second use of the barrels was the single malt, what was the first use? Also, was the single malt barley or something else?

They didn't give me that much info but when I call to pay, I can ask. @TallDan is there anything that could have been in there for first use that would make me not want it?

 

[TallDan]

They didn't give me that much info but when I call to pay, I can ask. @TallDan is there anything that could have been in there for first use that would make me not want it?

Malort.

Actually, I'd consider a Malort barrel, but it wouldn't be my first choice. No, I can't think of anything that would make me not want it, but potentially some things would be more interesting than others. I'd wager that the first use was bourbon.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

@TallDan yes they're both 5gallons.

I've heard that can be an issue. How long of a time frame are you referring to with "very long"? The other part of that question is once the beer is in the barrel, could you pull it out when it reaches a desired flavor and leave it in a carboy to continue aging? I know the risk there is oxygenation so would you just pull it out of the barrel when desired flavor is reached and bottle?

I think I'd be tempted to rack it from the barrel to a keg. Then you can purge with CO2 and bulk age as long as you want.

 

[stz]

It helps me to separate my thoughts on beer in barrels into two tracks. One is "I want something from the barrel" this is where you just want the bourbon or whatever was previously in the barrel, a large amount of which is hopefully going to still be in the barrel and its wood to come out into the beer. This is quite a rapid process (temperature dependent, but certainly less than 6 months) and relies on fresh recently emptied barrels that haven't been reused for anything else. Flavourful spirits are great because they are still going to be relatively sanitised. The other is "I want to use the barrel for interesting secondary fermentation" where you want some of the microbes resident in the barrel to interact with the beer. This can be quite a slow process and you again want fresh recently emptied barrels which held something complimentary that haven't had time to get disgusting yet.

In your case I'd take the first use rye barrels immediately. I believe they can only be used once for bourbon which is why they get a second use for something else. If you don't want too much wood don't leave it in there for too long. It doesn't take long for any remaining bourbon to come out into the beer and that is pretty much what gives that flavour anyway.

I'd be interested if they recover the devils share because this reduces the potential character that can be got from the barrel. It isn't the end of the world, but you want that bit!

 

[Auger]

@TallDan yes they're both 5gallons.

I've heard that can be an issue. How long of a time frame are you referring to with "very long"? The other part of that question is once the beer is in the barrel, could you pull it out when it reaches a desired flavor and leave it in a carboy to continue aging? I know the risk there is oxygenation so would you just pull it out of the barrel when desired flavor is reached and bottle?

I'm thinking in terms of days or weeks...for the first use you'll definitely want to be on top of the beer, tasting every few days to see how the flavor develops. If you're just looking for some oak flavor infusion from the wood, then that might be enough, but if you're looking for more of the complex flavors that develop over time due to interaction with the wood and oxygen transfer, you won't get that in a matter of days or weeks. Theoretically, yes you could seconary in the barrel for a few weeks until the desired character is reached, then rack again to bulk-age, or bottle, but at that point, why bother with the barrel at all vs. using oak cubes or spirals?

A few interesting articles:

https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2007/03/treatise-on-oaking-homebrew.html

https://beerandbrewing.com/barrel-aging-for-homebrewers/

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/5-tips-barrel-aging-beers-avery-brewing-co/

 

[Rob2010SS]

Wow, thanks for the information everyone. I appreciate it. I did ask how long since the barrels have been emptied and they're telling me a couple of months. Is that too long for what I'm looking for or is it still safe as long as there is still some remnant alcohol sitting in there?

 

[Auger]

I think the biggest challenge with that is going to be sanitizing the barrels if you're not planning on sour beers from the start. Unless they still have some alcohol in them and are completely wrapped up in plastic wrap, they might not even hold liquid at this point. If so, you'll have to fill them up with water to get the staves to swell back up and seal so they don't leak. It would probably wise to inquire about storage methods.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Ok, so worst case scenario, assume they weren't shrink wrapped, how do you sanitize a barrel? Is it worth it or would you just wait until a better option came along?

 

[PADave]

I thought about a barrel. From the little research I did, seems like the 5 gallon is too much wood for a small amount of beer, and after a week you can get really strong oak flavors. IMO, soaking oak chips, or spirals in whiskey of choice seems the better route. Not to mention the issues of sanitizing, leaking, and costs.