Optimizing speed of counter pressure filling.

[javert]

Hi doods. I had had enough trouble filling bottles with the Beer Gun and the breakage of the tip seal piece was the last straw for me, so I switched to a counter pressure bottle filler. Now, after getting the jist of the device, bottles come out nicely carbonated and foam doesn't turn the whole bottle into a goner but...

...the filling is DAMN slow.

Some details about the circumstances.
Fridge keeps kegs at about 2 °C (35 °F), carbonating pressure is set to 15 psi.
I use a "Y" fitting to connect both the kegs and the CO2 line used for purging the bottle so the pressure at the CO2 purging inlet is the same than the beer inlet (15 psi).
The beer hose that carries beer from the keg to the counter pressure filler is short, about 3'. I'm supposing that, since the pressurized filling controls the resistance of flow, beer line lenght is no longer an issue as it was with the Beer Gun.
Bottles are ambient temperature. I use chilled Starsan to cool them a bit but since the process takes a lot of time eventually the star sans warms up to ambient.

My procedure right now is to keep the relief valve very slightly open after pressurizing the bottle with the CO2 line to allow a continously low flow of beer that ensures the low foam then, as the liquid hits the neck I open it a little more so liquid outraces the foam. This gets me an acceptable loss of foam but, as told above, results in about a minute or two of time per bottle, which translate to about an hour and a half for an entire keg, and I'm not looking forward to keeping that rythm.

Does chilling the bottles make a big difference here? I don't notice bubbles on the beer line, they start forming on the bottle flow gets high (which means "a reasonable flow otherwise"). Would it be useful to use another regulator to set the CO2 pressure withing the bottle slightly lower than the beer line pressure?

 

[Advance]

I realize this thread is four months old, but I have a solution for your slow filling problem. When I first started counter pressure bottling I too had to use extremely slow fill rates to not have every bottle erupting with foam every time I removed the filler from the bottle. I played with the bottle temperature, keg temperature, carbonation levels, bottle pressure, keg pressure, and still could not remedy the problem. My initial setup was the deluxe counter pressure bottle filler that morebeer sells, and a barbed tee that connected my regulator to the keg and filler’s CO2 inputs (similar to yours). The solution I found was to use independent regulators for the keg and bottle filler.


The problem with using a single regulator and a gas tee, is the pressure drop induced by the liquid line connecting your keg to the filler is much greater than the gas line connecting the filler to the tee. Before you go out and buy more equipment try bottling using your single regulator and this method:

1. Calculate the effective pressure drop of your liquid line.
   
   
2. Set your regulator to the pressure that you carbonated at, PLUS the calculated drop pressure from the prior step.
   
   
3. Connect the filler to the keg and tee and purge the liquid line. Adjust the bleed valve to its maximum pressure setting.
   
   
4. Hold the filler over a collection vessel and slowly open the gas valve to push any beer out of the filler’s fill tube (the one that gas and beer enter the bottle from). Close the valve after the liquid in this tube has been purged.
   
   
5. Insert the filler into a bottle that has been prepped but do not seat the stopper just yet. Open the filler’s gas valve and allow the bottle to purge for 2 seconds, before seating the stopper and building pressure.
   
   
6. Once the pressure builds to the point that the adjustable bleed valve is releasing pressure, close the gas valve, or in the case of a three way valve move the lever to the neutral position. Wait for the adjustable bleed valve to close (stop hissing).
   
   
7. Open the filler’s liquid valve. You should observe that the beer in the liquid line flows back towards the keg rather than into the bottle because of the pressure drop imparted by the liquid line.
   
   
8. Slowly adjust the filler’s bleed valve until beer begins entering the bottle at a reasonable rate.
   
   
9. Fill the bottle to your targeted volume and shut off the liquid valve or in the case of a three way valve place the lever into the neutral position.
   
   
10. Try to slowly drop the pressure in the bottle by pinching the stopper with your fingers, breaking it's seal on the bottle's neck. This process in less messy if you did not fill the bottle to the point were beer is pushed out of the bleed valve.
    
    
11. Remove the filler from the bottle.

You might have a foam eruption for the first bottle because of the flow back that occurred in the liquid line. Subsequent bottles should not have this problem as long as you allow the pressure relief valve to close (stop hissing) before opening the liquid valve. I have not tried this method myself because I got a dual regulator setup before realizing that I might have been able to get by with a simple change to my procedure. This process should work in theory, but I think it depends on the repeatability of your filler's adjustable bleed valve. If it lets too much pressure out of the bottle after pressurizing, the beer will flash to foam when it enters the bottle during filling. If it does not let enough pressure out of the bottle after pressurizing the beer suffers from flowback which I think also causes the foaming issue.


Let me know if this works for you. If not, I will let you know how to use a dual regulator setup. My fill times per 12 oz bottle is probably 10 seconds or less from the time the liquid valve is opened to the time it is shut. I usually have the problem of not having any foam at all when I remove the filler from the bottle. I have to either bang the base of the bottle on a plastic cutting board or tap the mouth of it with the base of a sanitized bottle to cause CO2 to come out of solution. You should always aim to cap on foam!