Opinions wanted on next recipe

[pmonti80]

Hello everyone, my goal is to make a dark, medium or heavy body beer with 5% - 6%. I put lightly roasted dark malts to give some roast flavour but not too much. I'ts a belgian yeast but mainly because I washed it recently and wanted to use it.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
TYPE: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 8,00 l
Bottling Volume: 7,00 l
Estimated OG: 1,056
Estimated FG: 1,015
Estimated ABV: 5,4%
Estimated Color: 35,9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 26,5 IBUs
Carbonation: 2,6 vols.
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 67,5 %
Boil Time: 45 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2,00 kg Pale Malt (Weyermann) (6,5 EBC) Grain 1 83,3 %
0,20 kg Oats, Flaked (2,0 EBC) Grain 2 8,3 %
0,05 kg Aromatic Malt (Dingemans) (50,0 EBC) Grain 3 2,1 %
0,05 kg CARABELGE (Weyermann) (32,5 EBC) Grain 4 2,1 %
0,05 kg Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (925,9 EBC) Grain 5 2,1 %
0,05 kg Special B Malt (354,6 EBC) Grain 6 2,1 %
30,00 g Styrian Goldings [4,00 %] - Boil 45,0 min Hop 7 29,4 IBUs
1,0 pkg Wyeast Labs #3522 Washed Yeast 8 -

Mash Schedule: BiaB - 68º - 45min
Total Grain Weight: 2,40 kg

What do you think?

Thanks in advance.

 

[pmonti80]

Little bump here. Any help appreciated.

 

[bobbrews]

If body is your prime motivator, then I would suggest adding a lot more to your grist and mashing higher than 154F / 68C.

Any reason why you're doing a 45 minute mash and a 45 minute boil when your efficiency is already under 70%?

 

[pmonti80]

Upping the time boil and mash time didn't significatively improve efficiency and I'm not particularly bothered by it. For the moment I'm using my efforts in trying to improve repeatability of my process (still fairly new to all grain - partial mash).
What do you think about the recipe in intself?

 

[joshesmusica]

not trying to knock your process here. and honestly if you're only doing small batches, then that low of efficiency isn't going to kill you in cost.
But i've seen a lot of people who are using the logic of not caring about efficiency, and only caring about repeatability. i would think it should be the other way around. it might take more work, but i would think it would be way more worth it in the end. if you could get a process down with increased efficiency, then you have your repeatability. take good notes every time. if you then post those precise notes on this forum, there are plenty of pros (and even should be pros) on here to help you tweak the process.
as far as the recipe goes, bobbrews is trying to point you in the right track. higher mash temps = more body. 68 is a pretty good temp for a medium-heavy body. you will be getting some unfermentables in there, but if the temperature is dropping on you, then you're still getting a lot of simple sugars. kick it up to 69.5, and allow it to drop some in the mash process, and you might get more body.
another thing that stuck out to me, and could be the cause of your low efficiency is how much grains to water you have. are you doing a sparge? if so i would assume you would be doing what like 6L of water in the mash with like a 9-9.5L boil? with 6L of water in the mash, you should only be doing just under 1.5kg of grains. my math that i do is .45kg/1.4L (which is 1lb/1.5qt), but i have read some people going with .45kg/.9L (which is 1lb/1qt).

here are some good links to help you with your mash process:

talking about reasons to control ph and grain:water ratio:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-6.html

a really good chart that shows how much grain:water and helps to know how much you're capable of doing. the chart near the middle is something i use often, and it even shows it in kg/l!:
http://byo.com/light-ale/item/2543-converting-to-partial-mash

 

[pmonti80]

not trying to knock your process here. and honestly if you're only doing small batches, then that low of efficiency isn't going to kill you in cost.
But i've seen a lot of people who are using the logic of not caring about efficiency, and only caring about repeatability. i would think it should be the other way around. it might take more work, but i would think it would be way more worth it in the end. if you could get a process down with increased efficiency, then you have your repeatability. take good notes every time. if you then post those precise notes on this forum, there are plenty of pros (and even should be pros) on here to help you tweak the process.
as far as the recipe goes, bobbrews is trying to point you in the right track. higher mash temps = more body. 68 is a pretty good temp for a medium-heavy body. you will be getting some unfermentables in there, but if the temperature is dropping on you, then you're still getting a lot of simple sugars. kick it up to 69.5, and allow it to drop some in the mash process, and you might get more body.
another thing that stuck out to me, and could be the cause of your low efficiency is how much grains to water you have. are you doing a sparge? if so i would assume you would be doing what like 6L of water in the mash with like a 9-9.5L boil? with 6L of water in the mash, you should only be doing just under 1.5kg of grains. my math that i do is .45kg/1.4L (which is 1lb/1.5qt), but i have read some people going with .45kg/.9L (which is 1lb/1qt).

here are some good links to help you with your mash process:

talking about reasons to control ph and grain:water ratio:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-6.html

a really good chart that shows how much grain:water and helps to know how much you're capable of doing. the chart near the middle is something i use often, and it even shows it in kg/l!:
http://byo.com/light-ale/item/2543-converting-to-partial-mash

First of all thank you for your thorough response and good advices.

I'm doing mostly small scale full boil BiaB batches (6 to 12 liters). As you can guess the limit on grain weight is mainly a physical one based on the size of my pot but also on the strength of the gas stove I have in my small apartment. I can use DME to increase gravity but I didn't see the need as I was doing a normal gravity beer.

The focus is not only on big body medium gravity beer, but on making a good beer so the post is also about the recipe. But as no one has said anything I will assume it is good enough

I have read contradictory information about grain:water ratio so for the moment I'm not paying much attention to it. Lately in process related topics i'm focusing on:
- Trying to find techniques to keep temperature stable in my environment (improving on that with blankets and cardboard boxes)
- Starting with basic water chemistry (the water I buy for my beer is very low on calcium and sulfates)
- Post fermentation temperature control (too much difference in temperature between winter and summer inhouse)
- Having a mill so I can have some kind of repeatability on grain milling.


PS: PH checking and adjusting is something I am ignoring for now but I know I will have to start paying more attention down the road.

 

[bobbrews]

I have read contradictory information about grain:water ratio so for the moment I'm not paying much attention to it.

Here is the correct info:

The grist/water ratio is another factor influencing the performance of the mash. A thinner mash of >2 quarts of water per pound of grain dilutes the relative concentration of the enzymes, slowing the conversion, but ultimately leads to a more fermentable mash because the enzymes are not inhibited by a high concentration of sugars.

A stiff mash of <1.25 quarts of water per pound is better for protein breakdown, and results in a faster overall starch conversion, but the resultant sugars are less fermentable and will result in a sweeter, maltier beer. A thicker mash is more gentle to the enzymes because of the lower heat capacity of grain compared to water.

As always, time changes everything; it is the final factor in the mash. Starch conversion may be complete in only 30 minutes, so that during the remainder of a 60 minute mash, the brewer is working the mash conditions to produce the desired profile of wort sugars. Depending on the mash pH, water ratio and temperature, the time required to complete the mash can vary from under 30 minutes to over 90. At a higher temperature, a stiffer mash and a higher pH, the alpha amylase is favored and starch conversion will be complete in 30 minutes or less. Longer times at these conditions will allow the beta amylase time to breakdown more of the longer sugars into shorter ones, resulting in a more fermentable wort, but these alpha-favoring conditions are deactivating the beta; such a mash is self-limiting.

A compromise of all factors yields the standard mash conditions for most homebrewers: a mash ratio of about 1.5 quarts of water per pound grain, pH of 5.3, temperature of 150-155F and a time of about one hour. These conditions yield a wort with a nice maltiness and good fermentability.

 

[joshesmusica]

haha, that's literally straight from the link i posted...

 

[joshesmusica]

well, like i said, i wasn't trying to knock your process, and honestly i respect what you're trying to do here by getting every bit of your process down bit by bit.