Opinions on homebrew competition circuit

[madscientist451]

As the title states, I am trying to solicit a few opinions here.



Am I just being a sore loser here? Is this guy being a jerk? Please, share your thoughts.

Well, you ask for opinions, so here it is: Yes, you are a sore loser, no the other brewer isn't a jerk. A competition is supposed to be just that, a competition, let the best beer win. If you want to win competitions, brew better beer. Complaining about where other competitors live doesn't make your beer any better and is a total waste of time. Its always better, in my opinion, to be inclusive instead of excluding anyone.
If you want to improve your brewing, why not get your club to invite this out of state brewer to a club meeting and give a talk about his success and how he achieves it. Maybe you could learn something and make a new friend. So that's it, maybe not what you wanted to hear, but just telling it as I see it. Relax, enjoy life, eat drink and be merry! Cheers!!

 

[Brew_G]

Sounds like it goes against the spirit of the competition, and I think you have a case for being annoyed by it.

Someone doing this for the purpose of medal-grabbing would be an award-winning cock, so it'd be all the sweeter when you or someone you know beats him.

 

[Gavin C]

Maybe you're right and the guy goes out on weekends dressed in a gillie suit made of competition ribbons and chases children around at playgrounds. Who knows...

I want this suit. Not so much for the chasing children around playgrounds aspect but simply for the flair and panache it would add to my otherwise humdrum lifestyle.

 

[Braufessor]

I do think it is weird that a person could win "State Homebrewer of the Year" and not reside in the state. Sounds like your rule is poorly written. Why would an individual from another state even be eligible to win individual homebrewer of the year in your state??? Just say the individual needs to be a resident.

However, I see nothing wrong with him contributing to a team award in your state. It would be common for border area clubs to have people from out of state. They are part of the club, so, I don't see a problem with the club part of it.

Everything else is sour grapes though. As long as he is following the rules of the competitions.... what is there to be upset about? I almost never send 1 or 2 beers to a comp. If I am going to get a box together to put in the mail and send, it is just as easy to put 4-6 entries in there as it is 1-2. I pick good, well run, competitions and make sure I send the beers that I want evaluated, and the beers I think can do well.

The guy brews a lot, he brews great beer, he likes to enter it...... he beats everyone who can't brew beer as well as he can. I don't see what there is to be upset about at all. Like others have said - if he was sending 20 beers and only 1 medaled..... would anyone be complaining?

Just change the eligibility criteria for the individual award and this whole thing is a nonissue.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Well, the opinions seem to be pretty evenly mixed. There are enough "sour grapes" responses that I think I'll just leave it be. I really just wanted to know what you guys thought and if my expectations were out of touch with reality.

Thanks to everyone who shared their opinion.

 

[dfhar]

Why not work with your club or the other clubs in your circuit and invite him to give a talk on his brewing methods at a club meeting (when he's in town of course)? You might learn something.

 

[Darwin18]

What bothers me is that this person enters every competition in both states (and probably others as well, if I had to guess) and he enters quite a few beers in each. For example, in our most recent competition, out of 64 total entries, he had 6 beers place (spread across 3 categories). I don't know how many beers he entered, but obviously it was at least 6. I don't think that anybody else entered nearly as many. This theme is pretty consistent across all of our circuit's competitions this year, to the point where it is almost a running gag once the awards ceremonies start (which, needless to say, he is never present at since he lives several hours away from our state's border).

If I'm reading this correctly, your competition only had 64 entries? It's really not hard to place when there are so few entries. You and your club need to step it up. If this guy had almost 10% of the total entries at this competition then your club DESERVES not to be in the running for your state's circuit.

 

[unionrdr]

To be honest, I've seen glory roaders like that in other things as well, like turkey shoots where we'd bring the average shotgun while laid-off to try & win something to feed our families with. Then these rich guys show up with over & under Franchi's & other such top shelf expensive guns. Unethical behavior & definitely in poor taste to do so. Take all the good stuff home with a smirky grin on their faces in there big expensive new vehicles. Not cool, since these rich guys can afford to buy the stuff. And he's an honorary member that rarely shows up for meetings. He strikes me as that same sort of person. Trust me, this is another instance of the glory roader, nothing more. He doesn't live in the state, & if he doesn't live on or near the boarder of LA, then he should be ineligible, period. It's as if he finds it easier to take wins on the local level against amateurs, rather than on the regional or national level where his chances would be slimmer. I've seen this too many times in many pursuits in my life. Like pro racers coming to local races to dominate & get all the glory. Having the skills & tools to compete regionally or nationally, but sticking to the amateur level just to keep winning is a sure sign of the glory roader! PERIOD! When I was racing, for example, you'd win 3 races in the amateur class, then you automatically got bumped up to the semi-pro class. Win 3 races there, & you got bumped to the pro class. You need some kind of state & class rules in place.

 

[bobeer]

This could go either way. It sounds very annoying that dude wins all the time and he's not even living in the state. But... if it's not against the rules then there's really nothing you can do about. Changing the rules because someone is a good brewer would sort of suck for the good brewer. However, the state wide award should really only go to someone who actually has residency in the state.

I get it's hard to want to compete with someone who wins everything all the time but that's how good stories are made! Up your game and beat him. Nail down a few recipes that can compete with a few of his. It's annoying that he wins all the time but you can't change the rules because he's too good. You guys have to figure out a way to compete. Getting exposed to people that are better at something than you is what makes you get better.

But, in the end, this is a hobby. If the guy has more time than you do to create several great beers then that's just the way it is. There's more to life than brewing beer so maybe your life is richer than his? IDK, just grasping here... As long as no rules are being broken there's not much you can do about it other than up your game or change the rules slightly; which could be viewed as a punk move. I say just brew better beer. You can do it man!!

EDIT: an other thought... You don't need fancy equipment to brew great beer. I brew all grain in 2.5-6 gallon batches, on a very simple, fully manual, system and I still make great beer that everyone in my homebrew club loves. Maybe look more into water profiles and mash ph and control your fermention temps if you're not already doing so. That's pretty much the "secret" to making good beer. Not trying to tell you stuff you already probably know but just trying to help you win!

 

[douglasbarbin]

If I'm reading this correctly, your competition only had 64 entries? It's really not hard to place when there are so few entries.

It was actually another club's competition, but it is correct that there were 64 entries spread across 6 categories. This guy had 6 beers that medaled (in 3 categories). I don't know how many he actually entered but typically it is more than that (i.e., the "carpet bombing" strategy). Other people are placing , but for this particular competition, there were 3 different categories where this guy placed twice in the same category. I placed in one category, along with 2 entries from this guy. The judges were kind enough to give someone else an honorable mention, presumably because he would have medaled if this other brewer had not entered multiple (winning) beers in each category.

You and your club need to step it up.

Maybe so. I think only 4 or 5 clubs had members enter this particular competition, and my club took 5 of the 18 medals. The club that hosted the competition took 11 medals (counting the 6 from this guy).

If this guy had almost 10% of the total entries at this competition then your club DESERVES not to be in the running for your state's circuit.

He had at least that many, but regardless, I don't see how that is relevant to whether or not a club deserves to be in the running. Are you saying that everyone needs to "carpet bomb"?

Having the skills & tools to compete regionally or nationally, but sticking to the amateur level just to keep winning is a sure sign of the glory roader! PERIOD!

I would tend to agree, although maybe this person is using the local competitions as a sort of "testing ground" to fine-tune his recipes for larger or national competitions. If that's the case, then I can't really find fault with that.

 

[Darwin18]

It was actually another club's competition, but it is correct that there were 64 entries spread across 6 categories. This guy had 6 beers that medaled (in 3 categories). I don't know how many he actually entered but typically it is more than that (i.e., the "carpet bombing" strategy). Other people are placing , but for this particular competition, there were 3 different categories where this guy placed twice in the same category. I placed in one category, along with 2 entries from this guy. The judges were kind enough to give someone else an honorable mention, presumably because he would have medaled if this other brewer had not entered multiple (winning) beers in each category.

The easy fix here is to limit the entrant to one entry per category. In this case the entrant would only be able to enter six entries.

He had at least that many, but regardless, I don't see how that is relevant to whether or not a club deserves to be in the running. Are you saying that everyone needs to "carpet bomb"?

No, but I'm saying you have no leg to stand on here. You're annoyed that someone out of state is racking up points in your circuit's competition, but your club clearly isn't participating enough to justify your complaints. 64 entries in six categories average out to just over 10 entries per category. That's not just weak that's pathetic. I've judged enough competitions to know that a good half of the flight is usually going to score below a 30. This guy just needs to beat out two or three other entries to place. That's really not that difficult especially if he has multiple entries in that 10 entry flight.

If you want to win and you want your club to win your guys all need to step it up. Only having four or five of your club's members actually participate in the competition and then complain that someone else did better stinks of sour grapes. I'm not saying carpet bombing is the best strategy here, but at such a tiny competition there's really no excuse that this guy would have at least 10% of the overall entries. That's just a failure on your club's part. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but just pointing what your club needs to do to be more competitive.

 

[unionrdr]

Placing at the NHC tells me he's good at that level, but gaining a ton of wins in more local comps for his own ego trip.

 

[douglasbarbin]

64 entries in six categories average out to just over 10 entries per category. That's not just weak that's pathetic. I've judged enough competitions to know that a good half of the flight is usually going to score below a 30. This guy just needs to beat out two or three other entries to place. That's really not that difficult especially if he has multiple entries in that 10 entry flight.

The homebrew scene here isn't particularly large, and I would say that 60-something entries is probably pretty typical for most of our competitions. Most people only enter 1 or 2 beers per competition. It works out alright because we also have a limited pool of BJCP judges, and the non-BJCP guys can sometimes give back some questionable scoresheets (for example, on a beer I entered recently, the non-BJCP judge scored it 10 points lower than the BJCP-certified judge before the scores were amended to reduce the discrepancy).

I think that participation was higher at the beginning of the year (which was also the start of the circuit), but has dropped off somewhat since then. I don't know if it's apathy or if folks think that they are too far behind to catch up, but it would be nice to have a little more participation.

If you want to win and you want your club to win your guys all need to step it up. Only having four or five of your club's members actually participate in the competition and then complain that someone else did better stinks of sour grapes. I'm not saying carpet bombing is the best strategy here, but at such a tiny competition there's really no excuse that this guy would have at least 10% of the overall entries. That's just a failure on your club's part. I'm not trying to be a dick here, but just pointing what your club needs to do to be more competitive.

You do have some valid points. What would have been enough to win in previous years is apparently not good enough any more, due to the addition of this new competitor. If everyone gets better as a result, then it can't be a bad thing entirely.

 

[TobyG]

Amusingly, I found this thread searching for "homebrew state circuit" on Google.

If you're going that route, go with Jamil and Gordon, the champions of the "NHC Carpet Bomb" strategy.

Actually, I (jokingly) suggested I give Schoppe a call several times. Our club (like his home club) doesn't have any membership dues or rolls, so we would be a great fit. lol After all, Gordon and Jamil don't compete at NHC anymore.

 

[Gavin C]

Seems more common than I would have thought. A recent comp I placed in in SC was a "juggernaut" as one fellow entrant described it, of two prolific medalists. They must have entered 20+ beers between them at least.

One medal winning beer was titled. I don't like it but I have to or something like that. Seems very much aganst the spirit of things. Not against the rules though.

However this practice does appear to be par for the course in TX and SC competitions.

 

[imasickboy]

The person in question competes as a member of a Louisiana club and at least one other club in a different state, although he is listed under the current membership for neither club.

If the rule states that he must be a member of a LA club, or a resident of LA, and he obviously lives out of state, and is not listed as a member of a LA club, he is obviously not able to compete for the LA brewer of the year.

It's seems pretty straightforward to me. This person, who should be welcome to enter into the competitions, should be ineligible to win the overall award, no matter how far ahead of the competition he is.

 

[TobyG]

It's seems pretty straightforward to me. This person, who should be welcome to enter into the competitions, should be ineligible to win the overall award, no matter how far ahead of the competition he is.

The real issue is that the guys 'in charge' of the circuit for the first year also happened to belong to the same club. The second anyone started questioning anything, they are the first one to throw out the 'sour grapes' argument or 'it's too late to change the rules' when they set the rules before recruiting other clubs to set up competitions for or join their existing competitions to the circuit. Ultimately, nothing will change for 2015 since it's already awarded. My personal concern throughout the whole thing was always the potential for killing the enthusiasm for the circuit before it even got off the ground. A lot of the guys from the clubs at the beginning of the circuit stopped bothering to enter anything in the later events. 2016 is just around the corner, though.

 

[madcowbrewing]

I agree the rules have to be explicit. I am a member of a CA club and was a member as it started to get off the ground (under 10 members). But now that I am in OR, I don't attend meetings but I am active on the forum. The competition that is local to them is the county fair and I am no longer eligible to compete as one of the rules states that the entry must have been brewed in CA. That may be an option for future rules. Especially for the individual award.

 

[CGVT]

I looked at the circuits and saw the brewer you all are talking about. He enters a lot of comps in both states and enters under both clubs, probably picking what is most beneficial. It looks as if he enters a lot of beers and takes a lot of seconds and thirds in categories with just a few entries as well as quite a few firsts. He definitely dominates both circuits.

I think that they should look at amending the rules as far as the LA circuit goes. Doesn't quite seem fair that an out of state brewer would be eligible for the circuit awards.

Of course, he is obviously brewing very good beer to do as well as he is doing and even if he wasn't eligible for the Home Brewer of the Year, he would still most likely be dominating the awards in the local comps if he chose to enter.

Edited to add: With the number of entries he submits, he is also contributing a pretty good amount of $$ to the smaller comps. They may not want to discourage his entries...

 

[beerfactory]

Compromise and allow out of state/club member competitors at individual events while reserving the aggregate LA Homebrewer of the Year award for a state resident.

 

[jwalk4]

So the individual brews good beer. They also brew a lot of beer.

1. He/She brews the best beer in his/her state.
2. He/She brews the best beer in neighboring states.
3. He/She brews the best beer in your state.

Sounds like they deserve the title of "Brewer of the Year," for whatever that's worth.

 

[TobyG]

I looked at the circuits and saw the brewer you all are talking about. He enters a lot of comps in both states and enters under both clubs, probably picking what is most beneficial.

Where most beneficial equals only enters LA comps in the LA club.

It looks as if he enters a lot of beers and takes a lot of seconds and thirds in categories with just a few entries as well as quite a few firsts. He definitely dominates both circuits.

He is the definition of a shotgunner. I've judged his beers (and meads) in both circuits. He makes very good beer and is practically guaranteed to at least place in a fair number of categories just by virtue of percentages.

Edited to add: With the number of entries he submits, he is also contributing a pretty good amount of $$ to the smaller comps. They may not want to discourage his entries...

The only rule change(s) proposed so far were to either only limit the LA Homebrewer of the Year to a state resident, or to rename the title to the circuit homebrewer of the year to make it obvious. No rule was ever proposed to prevent him or anyone else from entering (even though a couple people wanted to try to paint it that way).

Ultimately, I think it may backfire in the long run because now I'm going to propose an actual committee to run the circuit and set rules. One representative from each comp with one vote and hopefully tone down any controversies.

 

[CGVT]

I wasn't saying to not allow him to enter but if he can't win the big prize he may be less inclined to enter comps that are not in his state which would cut back on the money coming in.

It seems reasonable to me that to be named the LA Home Brewer of the year, you should be an actual LA home brewer

Good luck with getting it under control.

Make sure you let us know how it shakes out.

 

[douglasbarbin]

Well... This thread certainly has picked up steam again.

 

[TriColor 1824]

I'm not sure what to make of this situation as I can understand both sides of the argument for and against this homebrewer. What I find really perplexing is why this individual continues to enter these competitions. Unless there is some monetary gain to be had or the need to continuously stoke a pathological degree of low self esteem by "beating up" on the competition, what is the point? I would think at some point he would get tired of winning so easily and stop entering these competitions; but then again, this is coming from the perspective of a reasonably well adjusted individual.

 

[TobyG]

It's all Google's fault.

 

[Gavin C]

The other side of the coin from a competitor's standpoint is that if you do get a medal competing against big hitters it is nice to know the competition was solid.

Hadn't looked at the financial side of things. Definitely important. If someone does want to enter 20 beers in a circuit competition it's going to be very hard for organizers to change the rules and say no to that.

This years state circuit in TX was all but wrapped up after the first two events. I could see folks being discouraged from entering later events. The biggest event is the first one of the year though so I guess it's not hugely surprising this attracts the most entries from these excellent brewers.

 

[beernutz]

It took about 30 seconds to find the name of the brewer in question and then an hour to read all his competition results. I tip my hat, his record is muy impressve.

 

[TobyG]

Lone Star is a little different since it's a circuit of comps that were already well established for the most part. Some of us created comps specifically to fill out the Bayou State Circuit. Most of the guys who are competitive on the Lone Star Circuit are still going to enter regardless. Our circuit is handicapped by access to judges. Most of the guys who could take on all comers are also judges. There's a part of me that wants to completely give up judging in our circuit next year and return shotgun fire. lol

 

[Gavin C]

Lone Star is a little different since it's a circuit of comps that were already well established for the most part. Some of us created comps specifically to fill out the Bayou State Circuit. Most of the guys who are competitive on the Lone Star Circuit are still going to enter regardless. Our circuit is handicapped by access to judges. Most of the guys who could take on all comers are also judges. There's a part of me that wants to completely give up judging in our circuit next year and return shotgun fire. lol

Do it man. Both barrels.