Open fermenting wheat beer

[rhys333]

I'm planning to brew a wheat beer using Schneider Weisse yeast and thought I'd try open fermenting similar to Schneider to help intensify yeast character. After doing some research into this on the homebrew scale, I learned its advisable to do closed secondary following active fermentation. Is this necessary, or a commercial practice that isn't really needed on the homebrew scale?

I'm wondering if it's acceptable to open ferment during active fermentation, scim off krausen (as recommended for this process), then cap the bucket, airlock as usual, and leave until completion. I'd really like to hear back from anyone with experience in this, and all input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Feurhund]

I did just this myself with my grown up Schneider strain. I used a Spiedel tank with a loose lid in my fermentation chest freezer. I did not secondary as I keg and I want the Hefe haze to stay.

I even went the extra mile and used saved wort to "krausen" and carb the beer in the keg. Turned out great! It tasted very close to Schneider with that nice clove and subtle tartness. The funny thing is, it did not do well in competition as every judge wanted banana!

Try a Schneider weisse and tell me you miss the banana. Also ask anyone in Munich what their favorite weizen is and it is Schneider 9/10.

Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[rhys333]

I did just this myself with my grown up Schneider strain. I used a Spiedel tank with a loose lid in my fermentation chest freezer. I did not secondary as I keg and I want the Hefe haze to stay.

I even went the extra mile and used saved wort to "krausen" and carb the beer in the keg. Turned out great! It tasted very close to Schneider with that nice clove and subtle tartness. The funny thing is, it did not do well in competition as every judge wanted banana!

Try a Schneider weisse and tell me you miss the banana. Also ask anyone in Munich what their favorite weizen is and it is Schneider 9/10.

Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Thanks for the feedback. I'll get back on the Schneider taste... have two of them in the fridge waiting to be sampled (and harvested) later this week. If all goes well I'll have my yeast for brewing the next week

I do like that banana though... Edelweiss is my number one, but I'm unsure if its bottle conditioned same way schneider is.

 

[rhys333]

...I was thinking I'd go all the way too and try it with the lid totally off. Bit worried about creepy crawlies, but I could lay a fine mesh or sanitized cloth over top. Is this crazy?

 

[jalmeida]

Not crazy at all. Go to the home brew store and pick up large mesh muslin cloth bags(hop bags etc) that will fit over the top of your fermenter. Check your beer every day and as soon as the krausen starts to drop cover it with an airlock.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jtp137]

I do a lot of open fermentation with my belgians. i use a 30 gallon fish tank and leave it in my fermentation chamber. I usually have to rouse the yeast everyday because they get lazy when there is a lot of surface area.

The esters are incredible, and i never got an infected batch


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jalmeida]

I do a lot of open fermentation with my belgians. i use a 30 gallon fish tank and leave it in my fermentation chamber. I usually have to rouse the yeast everyday because they get lazy when there is a lot of surface area.

The esters are incredible, and i never got an infected batch


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Are you doing wild fermentation or pitching yeast and leave it open? What are you doing once the krausen drops? I have been using an 8 gallon bucket but would like to try a shallower open setup to see what difference it makes with flavors. Any pics?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jtp137]

Are you doing wild fermentation or pitching yeast and leave it open? What are you doing once the krausen drops? I have been using an 8 gallon bucket but would like to try a shallower open setup to see what difference it makes with flavors. Any pics?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Using white labs belgian strain. Like the 500 and the 550 the best want to try the 570 next. I first started by using my mash tun which was a 25 gallon pot it was about 1.5 times wide as deep. Just got a 30 gallon aquarium at petco and it is about 3 times wide as deep. I only used the 530 recently it is in the secondary has incredible ester profile.

What i do is pitch at 66 degrees and hold it for a day. Then raise the ambient temperature to 75 and let the yeast do what they want. The only thing i do is skim the first rise and rouse the yeast after that. I usually leave it in after krausen falls around 10 days. I am afraid to transfer when the krausen is still on top. Maybe one day i will try it.

I would say make your width at least 1.5x the depth seems to be the sweet spot. Next tripel i will use the 550 which has a ton of spice and nice esters


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[rhys333]

Not crazy at all. Go to the home brew store and pick up large mesh muslin cloth bags(hop bags etc) that will fit over the top of your fermenter. Check your beer every day and as soon as the krausen starts to drop cover it with an airlock.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Great idea. I already have a large mesh for my BIABs and I think it'll fit over my bucket.

 

[rhys333]

Are you doing wild fermentation or pitching yeast and leave it open? What are you doing once the krausen drops? I have been using an 8 gallon bucket but would like to try a shallower open setup to see what difference it makes with flavors. Any pics?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Here's an idea too (1:10 into video)...
Brewing TV - Episode 4: Open Fermentation: http://youtu.be/X9xT8DHOZFE

 

[jtp137]

I honestly think that the increase in ester production has more to do with the fermentor being shallow than it does with the lid being off


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[TheCanisDirus]

I honestly think that the increase in ester production has more to do with the fermentor being shallow than it does with the lid being off


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I agree. I believe the surface area "exposed" is the main contributing factor in my experience. Now to buy a fish tank lol.

 

[jtp137]

Im actually thinking of fabricating a cover for it and installing a couple of air locks to see if it makes a difference


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mcbethenstein]

Instead of a fish tank I went with a food safe air/water resistant sterilite 13.5 gallon bin. Looks to be working beautifully. This is a saison in there now. Next up my Hefe recipe.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[rhys333]

Instead of a fish tank I went with a food safe air/water resistant sterilite 13.5 gallon bin. Looks to be working beautifully. This is a saison in there now. Next up my Hefe recipe. View attachment 214359
View attachment 214360


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

You must be psychic man. I dumped my wheat beer in one of those 2 nights ago, filled with water and ice to cool it down. I started thinking... hmmm, swamp cooler or open fermentor?

 

[jtp137]

Instead of a fish tank I went with a food safe air/water resistant sterilite 13.5 gallon bin. Looks to be working beautifully. This is a saison in there now. Next up my Hefe recipe. View attachment 214359
View attachment 214360


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Let us know if you notice an increase in esters. Where did u get the bin


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mcbethenstein]

My update on the saison. I left the fermenter open for about 18 hours. On Tuesday night I closed it as the krausen was starting to compact and I wanted the yeast to develop a nice CO2 blanket over the beer so I wouldn't need to transfer the beer so quickly, and would limit the effects of Oxidation. This morning the fermenter is sitting happily at 74° F, a nice temperature for a saison. The aroma is brilliant. Phenolic, spicy, fruity, cherries, citrusy perhaps from hops, very high on esters. Hopefully it will finish dry like the last time with a hint of tartness, like a good saison should be. This is looking to be very Belgian in profile. So far seems a success. Hopefully the rest of the process goes smoothly. If I recall correctly the last time I used this yeast (Wyeast 3726 farmhouse) it was done in about 4 days. And finished at 1.004. Perfect for a saison. This time around I definitely notice an increase in esters at this point. We will know for sure when it comes time to taste it. Krausen has started to fall, and checking the airlock, the headspace in my closed up fermenter is definitely filled with CO2. I know that this fermenter isn't truly an open fermenter, but it is a way to combine the best attributes of all the different techniques. Shallow and flat to reduce osmotic pressure on the yeast allowing them to create more esters and phenols, removable lid to allow for oxygen and CO2 exchange (again allowing the yeast to happily create more esters, since ester production goes down as dissolved CO2 goes up), and sealable after the point of hop drive & high krausen to eliminate the risk for infection and oxidation after fermentation. It may not be 100% traditional, but short of building a dedicated clean room for a real open fermenter and transferring to a secondary immediately after fermentation is 90% complete, I think it's working out nicely so far.

I bought the bin at target for $12.99. And had the bung, airlock, and bottling spigot at home, all of which you could easily get at your LHBS. Total cost... Maybe $20 on the high side. I also had the correct size drill bit 1".


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[Weezy]

Lovely thread, thanks for sharing the ideas fells. The only open fermentation I've done was open top bucket (besides a couple spontaneous tests). I like the broad Tupperware with lid idea mcbethenstein. I'd pike to try that with a mild nd some English strains.

 

[jtp137]

R

Here is my Belgian X-mass. Tried covering it in tight foil with a blow off tube. Too many flies so it needs to be covered


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Great thread. I've done one so far, I didn't use a lid, but transferred to a closed fermentor after 3 days. Really liked the ester profile ( it was a porter ). I'm going to do a pale ale next and then a saison. I used the storage tub like macbethenstien, although I put mine in my fermentation fridge. I'm limited to smaller batches though, as my ferm fridge is small.

 

[jtp137]

Great thread. I've done one so far, I didn't use a lid, but transferred to a closed fermentor after 3 days. Really liked the ester profile ( it was a porter ). I'm going to do a pale ale next and then a saison. I used the storage tub like macbethenstien, although I put mine in my fermentation fridge. I'm limited to smaller batches though, as my ferm fridge is small.

I heard its best to transfer in a couple days and rack under the krousen. Does fermentation continue after you rack i would hate to stop the fermentation. How was the porter did it finish after you racked it


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jtp137]

Great thread. I've done one so far, I didn't use a lid, but transferred to a closed fermentor after 3 days. Really liked the ester profile ( it was a porter ). I'm going to do a pale ale next and then a saison. I used the storage tub like macbethenstien, although I put mine in my fermentation fridge. I'm limited to smaller batches though, as my ferm fridge is small.

I heard its best to transfer in a couple days and rack under the krousen. Does fermentation continue after you rack i would hate to stop the fermentation. How was the porter did it finish after you racked itnv


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jtp137]

Great thread. I've done one so far, I didn't use a lid, but transferred to a closed fermentor after 3 days. Really liked the ester profile ( it was a porter ). I'm going to do a pale ale next and then a saison. I used the storage tub like macbethenstien, although I put mine in my fermentation fridge. I'm limited to smaller batches though, as my ferm fridge is small.

Did the fermentation finish in secondary after you racked it in three days? I heard you should rack before krousen falls, but I was always afraid to stall the fermentation


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[jtp137]

Sorry for all these post phone kept giving me an error. Didn't know if it posted


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Yes, it kept fermenting. I was a little worried, so I scooped a ladleful of top cropped yeast and added it to the closed fermentor. You could always rouse the beer before transfer, then you'd be sure of having plenty of yeast in there to finish off fermentation.

The porter was great, very nice ester profile.

 

[rhys333]

Yes, it kept fermenting. I was a little worried, so I scooped a ladleful of top cropped yeast and added it to the closed fermentor. You could always rouse the beer before transfer, then you'd be sure of having plenty of yeast in there to finish off fermentation.

The porter was great, very nice ester profile.

Just curious, why is it necessary to rack to secondary with open fermentation? Is it down to air exposure and risk of infection? I'm assuming autolysis isn't a factor as per other ales on the homebrew scale. I've been 'open' fermenting in a wide pail (shallower than 1:1 ratio) with a loose fitting lid, then locking it down with airlock following active fermentation.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Yes, that's correct, but what you're doing is protecting it from oxygen so you should be fine doing it that way. I'd like to do it that way as well, but I'm limited with space. Might have to get a bigger tub, and modify as you have, but then I don't have the temp control of my ferm fridge. At this point I'll stick with the smaller tub, but it would be great to do full sized batches.

 

[jtp137]

Do you have to rouse the yeast during fermentation. Mine seems to stall and i need to mix it gently with a spoon


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew