Open Fermenter

[pigroaster]

You might start a brewing revolution and get me to try a large batch in my commercial milk cooler!

 

[Zibe]

The height of the containers are similar 5.5 gallons in the sterilite is 9 inches high and comes to the 3.5 gallon mark on the bucket (5.5 gallons in the bucket is 13.5 inches high).


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[Zibe]

I'm only trying an experiment on things that have been done for centuries I know some pros still do this as well. If this does work out I'll be looking for a SS pan like the one posted on the first page. Or try the diy one that I saw in BYO that started this whole thing. Of course once I do that they'll run a story about how the Babylonians used clay pots and my ADD will make me try that. Hobby and addiction are closely related.


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[Zibe]

Had to look up what exactly a commercial milk cooler was but if you can control temp in those things looks like it would be an ideal commercial open fermenter, get a couple going with a good top cropping strain and you could just scoop and pitch right into the next one


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[Zibe]

**UPDATE**
Ok a lot to go over including I think the failure of this experiment. Beer was very underattenuated at 1016 I roused the yeast gave it a few more days and kegged but it remained at 1016. Thought I could get by that..I can't it's disgustingly sweet for my taste. As far as if there is a difference between the two-again hard to tell they both just taste too sweet for me to handle. I'm now less concerned with the experiment and more into trying to save ten gallons of beer. Both kegs are already chilled and mostly carbed....so I unhooked them and brought them outside the kegerator. I bled off most of the pressure and I'm gonna let them warm up and pitch a higher attenuating yeast right in the keg I'll rig some type of blow off from the posts. Hoping to drop it to at least 1012 but seeing I've never tried this on carbed beer that was chilled will it work?? Not sure what else to do I've broken plenty of fermentation rules already on this so why not give this a try. Disappointed that it came down to this I should have stuck with my tried and true Nottingham yeast, I can assure you Windsor will never touch another of my beers again I think it got like 60% attenuation. I'm still treating both kegs exactly the same so if there ends up being a difference I would still attribute it to the fermenters but I've introduced too many variables now for my comfort. Will update.....



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[Zibe]

I should mention that playing with brewers friend with the numbers I got that this beer went from an English special bitter to pretty much a Scottish 70 shilling (on the sweet side of that).

I take that to mean my yeast voted to secede from the UK. I can picture a bunch of blue faced little yeasties laughing at me right now. Little do they know I am assembling my English yeast army to do battle. I can take their lives but can I convert their sugars??? We will see....


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[Zibe]

Just read the above it should say secede not succeed.


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[Zibe]

Pitched a pack of muntons gold yeast (my emergency go-to yeast) in each keg and almost immediately the kegs started off-gassing. It was actually shooting foam out the gas post on both within a couple minutes. Not sure if this is the yeast working that quick or just co2 off-gassing but rigged this little blow off which is happily bubbling away. If I can save this I'll be psyched.



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[hopfool]

Might be completely wrong but I thought the shallow depth open fermenter concept had more to do generally with increased surface area for gas exchange.

If this works I'm doing my bucket list tour of Belgian Trappist Monasteries sooner rather than later. Think they'll mind me scraping spores off of their ceilings?

(he says, with kegs of Orval dancing in his head)

 

[Zibe]

Yeah I've heard different reasons for the open/shallow fermenter but they've all agreed that there should be a different flavor profile I'm just not completely sure it carries over to the homebrew world or not hence the experiment. Unfortunately due to a crazy series of events documented in this thread this experiment probably won't prove anything either way.

Can't say as I get into the Belgians too much so I'd appreciate it if you left those spores over there where they belong 😆. Although if this batch comes through uninflected with all the horrible practices I've done I'll have to reevaluate how easy that can happen.


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[hopfool]

Interesting all the same. Thanks for taking the time to experiment and share.

 

[Zibe]

Kegs are still slightly bubbling so looking like I will either get the fg down to a drinkable level or I have an infection of some kind but since both are bubbling at pretty much spot on the same rate this might actually work out


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[Zibe]

Reporting in just in case anyone really likes watching a slow motion train wreck. Since it's been so long let me go over the sequence of events:

1) brewed 10 gallon partial mash untested recipe 1042 OG
2) kicked off strong but fermentation seemed to stop too quickly
3) checked gravity after four days and it's at 1016 so roused yeast hoping to get down to at least 1012
4) didn't work so I make brilliant decision and kegged it on day 10 or so at 1016
5) awful sweet carbonated beer make even smarter decision to vent kegs let warm to room temp and pitch muntons gold yeast
6) it bubbled but after several days fg still not dropping
7) pitch one pack of Nottingham (best yeast ever) between two kegs renewed bubbling - life looks good
8) put in warm 70+ deg room for several days
9) chill pitch some geletin in and carbonate
10) taste- still way to sweet but barely drinkable





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[Zibe]

Question is are they different?

Absolutely the square fermenter is as best I can describe fruitier....is it better than the bucket....absolutely not I prefer the bucket batch although I'm not real fond of either

Now way too many variables took place to attribute anything to the fermenters, one might be more oxidized, one might be infected slightly, who knows.

I'm hoping some of the undesirable taste can be attributed to what must be a lot of yeast in the kegs if so this may clear some with time, both are REALLY cloudy if so I'll update but I'm not hopeful. I will attempt this experiment again but probably gonna be a while as I have a brew schedule that I'm failing already stay tuned for lessons learned


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[Zibe]

LESSONS LEARNED

1) if you want to perform an experiment like this maybe use a tried and true recipe-idiot
2) if you want to test yeast characteristics in different fermenters use a yeast you know. I KNOW Notty so of course I pitched Windsor-brilliant
3) NEVER use Windsor again-unless the zombies have destroyed every other type of yeast on the planet to include bread yeast
4) if your yeast isn't working try pitching another in the fermenter maybe instead of kegging, chilling, carbonating, venting, warming, pitching.....moron
5) maybe do the experiment and take notes and if you get good results post it INSTEAD of giving a month long play by play of your bad brewing decisions on the biggest homebrew forum

So I take full responsibility for the shortcomings of this I need to knock out a few other batches and I'll revisit this I still think it's a valid experiment sooooo thanks for tuning in will update in the future although I will reiterate .... They taste very different just can't confirm why and can't say it tastes better


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[Agtronic]

Dude, you had me smiling the whole time. This was not a failure, you learned a bunch and actually tried something, where many of us just stick to what we know and never actually explore our imaginations.

Love your writing style too, you're a funny dude. Thanks for posting.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I enjoyed the read as well.

 

[ukaH]

Enjoyed this as well. Even with your so called failure, it makes me want to give a shot to open fermentation for some belgian and english styles.

 

[z-bob]

I salute you

I have an idea stuck in my head (it's why I found this thread) to try a 10 gallon aquarium for a fermentation tank. With no airlock, just a loose lid. Too many other things I need to try first, but eventually I'll get to it. Unless I chicken out...

 

[Stealthcruiser]

No failure, just "gathering data"!

 

[Zibe]

FUNNY!!!
Funny how, funny like a clown?
Do I amuse you?
I need to watch that again.

It actually was a wild alternative fermentation ride and I did learn a lot just wish I would have stuck a little closer to some type of scientific method for some definitive answer. In my mind it made a difference and it definitely didn't turn me off using what I'm calling "the cube" although really I may have mislabeled this deal as I was really testing more of a shallow fermentation than an open one ...you say crystal I say caramel...
Never thought about an aquarium that's interesting
I am in fact drinking the cube ale right now, it's growing on me


The most important thing is all ten gallons are:
Wet
Cold
Bubbly
Alcoholic
I shoot for those at a minimum and it totally passed woooooohooooo!




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[Zibe]

Sooooo just when you thought the wreck was over ..... No way this train had some serious momentum. I'll start with the good news. I just bottled a sixer of each to distribute with the simple question of are they different will post when I get some feedback. I've also managed to suck down about half of each so I just pushed one keg into another mixing them into one now full keg of swill. Then I've made some hop tea which I dumped in ( took three additions to cover the taste) and now it's an India Brown Swill (I'm calling this a new style...Style guidelines forthcoming) This is another lesson learned from the experiment.... If you make crappy beer hop the crap out of it and put India before the name and BINGO you were just "pushing style guidelines"
It goes like this:
"Hey Fred you like the beer?"
"Ummm it's different...what is it?"
"An India Octoberfest"
"Ugh isn't the point of an Octoberfest to show the malt"
"I'M PUSHING STYLE GUIDELINES FRED!! I'M A REVOLUTIONARY FRED!! NOW GET OUT OF MY HOUSE FRED!! NO YOU CAN'T TRY MY WINE NO INDIA MERLOT FOR YOU!!"


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[Zibe]

Oh yeah forgot about the bad news.. It involves the cube but I think I have to start at the beginning..
When I bought him it was the happiest plastic storage bin in the world (think third world orphan meets Angelina Jolie) instead of facing a lifetime of holding dirty dog pooped shoes or old toys or whatever it realized it was going to hold beer. And not just hold beer but mold it and contribute to its flavor. When that wort hit the bottom and splashed on the sides it was in heaven. But then I pitched the yeast and I think he immediately thought something was wrong. Is..is this Windsor?? It should be Notty, you told me you use Notty! Then it didn't attenuate and he got a bad feeling "will I be blamed for this? It was the yeast! It was the recipe!" The buckets and Carboy just laughed. Then I racked into a keg and I think he screamed "NOOO pitch another yeast in me I can fix this" but it was too late. And now the experiment failed. I tried to reassure ill do it again but with each passing day I sense anger in my basement. You see it wasn't just that but other sterilite containers had their hopes on him that if this worked they too would be repurposed for fermentation, that may not happen now. And now I think he knows, knows that I'll be brewing again soon and probably won't use him. He's angry I think he wants vengeance. I'm scared. I plead with you if I stop posting and there is a story about a mysterious basement death find him and destroy him!! You'll know it's him by the spigot and the grommeted lid I fear he won't stop unless he is melted down, chopped up, encased in concrete, and thrown in the deepest ocean.
If this is my last post happy fermenting don't make the same mistakes I did. I have to go I hear rustling downstairs I think he knoooooooo


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[Zibe]

Just when you thought I was done or killed by a plastic storage bin I can report I am alive. I really have nothing to report on the cube experiment but since I've already reported so thoroughly on that train wreck and it's finally come to rest...WHAM it gets hit with a separate oncoming train full of bad decisions.
Check this out..
BYO had that article an issue or two back about SMaSH brewing so I'd been wanting to brew the brown porter DMaSH recipe which was gonna be for me 7.5 lbs pale ale malt and 4 lbs brown malt (goldings or fuggles hops). Well I've been experimenting with roasting my own malt and had instructions from either moshers book or barleypopmakers blog on home roasting (excellent resources) brown malt so I did. Well when I brewed my og was low and I realized I only used 6.5lbs of pale malt instead of 7.5, whoops but no big deal. Well it gets time for tasting and it's not good it's real roasty and kind of burnt tasting. That's when I go back to my resources and realized that the brown malt I made had an estimated lovibond of 175 and the lovibond of the commercial malt that the recipe asked for.......65. Yeah that makes a big difference. Drinkable but not good. But then the batch after that I made a special bitter and get this..I followed a recipe..no experiments and it tastes awesome go figure. Just figured I'd share that little story for those that enjoy my dumb decisions.


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