Ommegang Rosetta

[brewshki]

I fell in love with the wrong beer.

I have now had this beer 3 times and every time it is like an experience. So much so, that I have easily put it up with my top 5 favorite beers. It may even be the absolute top. I have only ever found it in 2 restaurants, one in the Bay Area, and one in my hometown. So, naturally, as a home brewer, I want to have 5 gallons of this beauty at my house at all times. It's rarity and the desire to be able to make it make me want to brew it. I have already started a little research. The description of the beer on their website is as such:

"Ommegang Rosetta pays homage to time-honored Belgian methods of aging and blending fruit beers. Ommegang brewmaster Phil Leinhart partnered with Belgian sister brewery, Liefmans - legendary brewers in the world of sour fruit beers - to create a truly unique blend for Ommegang and U.S. craft beer lovers. Pouring a mahogany-brown with a hint of red, Rosetta offers elegance, depth, complexity, and an intriguing interplay of tartness and sweetness. This is derived from Phil's perfectly balanced blend of Oud Bruin (a tart Flemish brown ale) with Cuvee Brut (a fruity and lively Kriek Beer)"

The blog post adds: "Leinhart’s recipe calls for a perfectly balanced blend of old (aged on cherries at least three years) and young Flemish brown ale (or oud bruin) with a lively and fruity kriek, or cherry beer. The result is a complex yet refreshing mahogany-brown brew that is an intriguing interplay of tartness and sweetness."

So, this beer seems fairly complex. From what I can tell, it is a blend of 3 beers: a young oud bruin, an old oud bruin (aged 3 years on cherries), and a kriek. Does that seem accurate? I think both the old oud bruin and Kriek have cherries.

So, if I want to brew this as accurately as possible, I need to brew three beers and then blend them. I have never brewed the two styles. If I want to make something close, I need to gain an understanding of what the proper beers contribute and find a way to mimic them as best as possible.

So, questions time. Does anyone have tips on brewing oud bruins and Krieks? Does anyone have an idea how the actual beer from Ommegang is brewed? Is there a way to mimic the beer in a shorter amount of time? I understand it won't be true to the original, but I would like to explore all facets of it. Does anyone have tips on where to start? anyone have a recipe?

I am planning on making this beer a long term project in terms of getting it right, so I am willing to do the trials and research. This is part of the research as I appreciate what this forum contributes. I would like to have some sounding boards in terms of figuring this out, so any comments would be great!

 

[Big Monk]

I fell in love with the wrong beer.

I have now had this beer 3 times and every time it is like an experience. So much so, that I have easily put it up with my top 5 favorite beers. It may even be the absolute top. I have only ever found it in 2 restaurants, one in the Bay Area, and one in my hometown. So, naturally, as a home brewer, I want to have 5 gallons of this beauty at my house at all times. It's rarity and the desire to be able to make it make me want to brew it. I have already started a little research. The description of the beer on their website is as such:

"Ommegang Rosetta pays homage to time-honored Belgian methods of aging and blending fruit beers. Ommegang brewmaster Phil Leinhart partnered with Belgian sister brewery, Liefmans - legendary brewers in the world of sour fruit beers - to create a truly unique blend for Ommegang and U.S. craft beer lovers. Pouring a mahogany-brown with a hint of red, Rosetta offers elegance, depth, complexity, and an intriguing interplay of tartness and sweetness. This is derived from Phil's perfectly balanced blend of Oud Bruin (a tart Flemish brown ale) with Cuvee Brut (a fruity and lively Kriek Beer)"

The blog post adds: "Leinhart’s recipe calls for a perfectly balanced blend of old (aged on cherries at least three years) and young Flemish brown ale (or oud bruin) with a lively and fruity kriek, or cherry beer. The result is a complex yet refreshing mahogany-brown brew that is an intriguing interplay of tartness and sweetness."

So, this beer seems fairly complex. From what I can tell, it is a blend of 3 beers: a young oud bruin, an old oud bruin (aged 3 years on cherries), and a kriek. Does that seem accurate? I think both the old oud bruin and Kriek have cherries.

So, if I want to brew this as accurately as possible, I need to brew three beers and then blend them. I have never brewed the two styles. If I want to make something close, I need to gain an understanding of what the proper beers contribute and find a way to mimic them as best as possible.

So, questions time. Does anyone have tips on brewing oud bruins and Krieks? Does anyone have an idea how the actual beer from Ommegang is brewed? Is there a way to mimic the beer in a shorter amount of time? I understand it won't be true to the original, but I would like to explore all facets of it. Does anyone have tips on where to start? anyone have a recipe?

I am planning on making this beer a long term project in terms of getting it right, so I am willing to do the trials and research. This is part of the research as I appreciate what this forum contributes. I would like to have some sounding boards in terms of figuring this out, so any comments would be great!

I would read up on Flanders Reds, Oud Bruins and Lambic brewing and see how much you are actually committed.

Living in Central NY means I have an unlimited supply of Ommegang and Rosetta and Brunetta are not all that expensive. It’s really a savings to investment ratio type decision. Can you brew it like Ommegang? Maybe, but at $10 a 4 pack I’ll support Ommegang and save myself the trouble.

 

[brewshki]

I would read up on Flanders Reds, Oud Bruins and Lambic brewing and see how much you are actually committed.

Living in Central NY means I have an unlimited supply of Ommegang and Rosetta and Brunetta are not all that expensive. It’s really a savings to investment ratio type decision. Can you brew it like Ommegang? Maybe, but at $10 a 4 pack I’ll support Ommegang and save myself the trouble.

I mean, i can also buy great IPA for less. Does that mean i dont want to brew it? no. that's part of being a home brewer for me.

 

[myndflyte]

I think getting some books on those styles is the way to go. And I'd probably start with Oud Bruins since it looks like you have to let it sit for at least 3 years. It also doesn't hurt to maybe reach out to the brewmaster. Just smooze him/her a bit about how great the beer is and ask if he has any tips or recipe suggestions for you to brew it.

Sometimes those guys like helping out the homebrewer since that is usually where they started.

 

[Big Monk]

I mean, i can also buy great IPA for less. Does that mean i dont want to brew it? no. that's part of being a home brewer for me.

I was thinking more along the lines of having equipment tied up long term for the proper aging and blending.

 

[Big Monk]

I think getting some books on those styles is the way to go. And I'd probably start with Oud Bruins since it looks like you have to let it sit for at least 3 years. It also doesn't hurt to maybe reach out to the brewmaster. Just smooze him/her a bit about how great the beer is and ask if he has any tips or recipe suggestions for you to brew it.

Sometimes those guys like helping out the homebrewer since that is usually where they started.

I’ve emailed and got responses back from Phil at Ommegang. Super nice guy and very friendly and helpful.

 

[brewshki]

I’ve emailed and got responses back from Phil at Ommegang. Super nice guy and very friendly and helpful.

Awesome! seems like it is worth a shot then. and that makes sense about the tie up of equipment. I am definitely a little worried about that. That is why part of me is contemplating trying to make a cherry beer that is similar to the beer in terms of flavor.

 

[brewshki]

So I finally got around to making this happen. Brewed a Flanders brown ale recipe from brewing classic styles and then added 3 pounds of sweet cherry purée. As you can see from the photo, the carboy may be a little full... here’s hoping for the best!

 

[RPh_Guy]

There are modern methods to achieve a similar been in a matter of weeks, without blending.

Rosetta lacks a lot of the complexity of other traditional aged sours IMO.

If you're still interested, I could help develop a recipe and process.

 

[brewshki]

There are modern methods to achieve a similar been in a matter of weeks, without blending.

Rosetta lacks a lot of the complexity of other traditional aged sours IMO.

If you're still interested, I could help develop a recipe and process.

I would be all ears in terms of suggestions for the next go around on it. This was the first batch/attempt. I am just happy to have something with bugs in it finally going.

As a recap this is a Flanders brown recipe pulled from brewing classic styles fermented in primary with 001 and now has 3 pounds of cherries and sour blend 1 added in.

Thoughts on a better way to take this?

 

[RPh_Guy]

OK cool, this is a new beer entirely, optimized to get the right flavors quickly.

Grain bill... This is meant to be not a blend but, all-in-one, so it's a little weak for a brown and a little malty for a kriek. Adjust as you see fit.
5 gal batch:
7 lbs Maris Otter
4 oz caramunich
2 oz British crystal 55 or similar lovibond (British malt being important here)
2 oz chocolate malt

Water: very soft, lots of chloride, little/no sulfate.

Mash 2 hours at 148°F
Boil 60 minutes. No hops.

Yeast/bacteria
You'll need to make a starter from WY5526 1-2 weeks beforehand. No aeration, 500-1000mL.
Make a starter from WY1084 with your normal process.

Chill wort, drain 500mL into a jar or flask for a Lacto starter. Add L. plantarum and about 5g calcium carbonate. Cover and set aside at room temp (70-95°F).

Pitch both yeast starters. Ferment between 62-66°F
After 48 hours, pitch the Lacto starter, decanting it off the calcium carbonate.
Add glucoamylase.
Increase temp to 65-69°F

Add cherry product of your choice when fermentation is dying down, along with half an ounce of Czech Saaz.
See here for how much cherry to use: http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Soured_Fruit_Beer
Start on the lower end, e.g. 20oz of cherry concentrate / 5 gal.

It'll be ready to package within a couple weeks after brewing.
If you bottle, it would probably benefit from some bottling yeast with an acid shock starter.

Cheers

 

[bkboiler]

I believe Brew Like a Monk by Stan Hieronymus has a lot of great information about this style as well as specific interviews with Ommegang's head brewer

 

[brewshki]

OK cool, this is a new beer entirely, optimized to get the right flavors quickly.

Grain bill... This is meant to be not a blend but, all-in-one, so it's a little weak for a brown and a little malty for a kriek. Adjust as you see fit.
5 gal batch:
7 lbs Maris Otter
4 oz caramunich
2 oz British crystal 55 or similar lovibond (British malt being important here)
2 oz chocolate malt

Water: very soft, lots of chloride, little/no sulfate.

Mash 2 hours at 148°F
Boil 60 minutes. No hops.

Yeast/bacteria
You'll need to make a starter from WY5526 1-2 weeks beforehand. No aeration, 500-1000mL.
Make a starter from WY1084 with your normal process.

Chill wort, drain 500mL into a jar or flask for a Lacto starter. Add L. plantarum and about 5g calcium carbonate. Cover and set aside at room temp (70-95°F).

Pitch both yeast starters. Ferment between 62-66°F
After 48 hours, pitch the Lacto starter, decanting it off the calcium carbonate.
Add glucoamylase.
Increase temp to 65-69°F

Add cherry product of your choice when fermentation is dying down, along with half an ounce of Czech Saaz.
See here for how much cherry to use: http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Soured_Fruit_Beer
Start on the lower end, e.g. 20oz of cherry concentrate / 5 gal.

It'll be ready to package within a couple weeks after brewing.
If you bottle, it would probably benefit from some bottling yeast with an acid shock starter.

Cheers

What of this process would allow it to be ready so much quicker?

I know my knowledge is dated, but adding fruit and bugs to my already fermented clean beer seems like it will take a while.

 

[RPh_Guy]

What [part(s)] of this process would allow it to be ready so much quicker?

1. Fast attenuation because of the high fermentability and enzyme. No waiting to reach FG.
2. Fast Brett flavor from the large pitch into lots of fermentable sugar. No waiting for Brett flavor development.
3. Fast souring from no hops. No waiting for souring.
4. No Pediococcus issues to be fixed... No ropy beer or diacetyl issues.
5. Post-souring encourages fast and full yeast expression.
6. Sessionable ABV encourages quick fermentation and flavor development.

Time on the fruit is really the longest part of this process. 1-3 weeks is ok if you use whole fruit. Fruit juice would work too and take less time.
It'll be ready within the same timeframe as a clean beer.

This accelerated process solves all the problems with traditional methods (from before the age of modern microbiology).

I know my knowledge is dated, but adding fruit and bugs to my already fermented clean beer seems like it will take a while.

Yes, the beer you made will take a while -- several months at least.

Cheers