Old Peculier Clone

[jamesnsw]

My housemate asked me to make a beer like she remembers from her time in England. Of course, as examples of the type of beer, she gave examples from several very different styles... so "one like those."

I settled on Old Peculier, which I've never had, so that makes it more fun... also, it's an "Old Ale", but is somewhat out of style- it's really not big enough. Here's a frankenstein recipe from what I've seen.

Old Peculiar Clone
19-A Old Ale

Original Gravity: 1.057 (1.060 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.017 (1.015 - 1.022)
Color: 17.06 (10.0 - 22.0)
Alcohol: 5.28% (6.0% - 9.0%)
Bitterness: 40.6 (30.0 - 60.0)

Ingredients:
.25 lb Belgian Special B
2 oz British Black Patent
1.0 lb Crystal 15
3.0 lb Liquid Light Extract
1 lb Invert Sugar
1.0 oz Northern Brewer (8.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
3.0 lb Liquid Light Extract (late extract addition at 15 min)
.5 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min

Yeast: Wyeast 1968

One recipe site suggested this:
# 1 tsp gypsum added to mash water
# 1 tsp gypsum added to sparge water
# 1/4 tsp Epsom Salts added to kettle

What do you suggest? I've never messed with my water before.

Also, is Wyeast 1968 so flocculant that I won't need Irish Moss? How about a starter?

Overall, how does this look? Any suggestions? Thanks!

 

[jamesnsw]

I made this even more of a Franken-brew, and would love to hear some thoughts on it. Too much of the grains?

Original Gravity: 1.055 (1.060 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.017 (1.015 - 1.022)
Color: 20.28 (10.0 - 22.0)
Alcohol: 5.06% (6.0% - 9.0%)
Bitterness: 40.6 (30.0 - 60.0)

Ingredients:
.25 lb Belgian Special B
0.5 lb Wheat Malt
.5 lb Caramel Malt 120L
3.0 lb Liquid Light Extract
1.0 lb Treacle
1.0 oz Northern Brewer (8.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
.5 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
3.0 lb Liquid Light Extract
.5 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min

Thanks!

 

[14thstreet]

I've been trying to formulate my own OP recipe as there are a lot of recipes on the net without much feedback as to how close it is to OP, although Graham Wheeler's all-grain version seems to get the most praise. Regardless, with an extract recipe, you cannot steep wheat malt as that grain needs to be mashed. You'll need to do at least a partial-mash with a couple of pounds of pale malt.

The use of treacle has confused me a bit, but usually what I've heard is that 1 lb is way too much and at least one brewer felt that if boiled, it was too harsh, overwhelming or "not right". Whether boiled or used in excess it seems like aging the beer (7+ weeks) helps mellow it out. I've seen as little as 2-3.5 oz used as a priming sugar as another option. I can't say what the difference could be. I'd stick with the invert, table, or brown sugar in its place and perhaps prime with treacle.

If you don't know your water mineral content, I would not mess with your water. This is an extract recipe so you shouldn't need to do anything to your water. Some suggest using spring or distilled water for extract brewing.

You could probably do away with the 30 minute hop addition to drop your overall IBU level to about 30. This is common in other recipes I've seen. Boil time can be increased to 90 minutes but adjust your hop amounts accordingly.

Good luck!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Theakston's Old Peculiar. It's a very good northern English ale. I drank a lot of it in Blackburn, Lancs. Good luck with it!

Their web page for it

I liked this quote from their site “Masham in North Yorkshire is historically famous
for two things — sheep and Theakston's beer.”

Two things I love to do!

 

[jamesnsw]

Regardless, with an extract recipe, you cannot steep wheat malt as that grain needs to be mashed. You'll need to do at least a partial-mash with a couple of pounds of pale malt.

I have no experience with this, but I thought it was flaked wheat that needed to be mashed, not wheat malt. Am I wrong on this?

I also wasn't sure about the treacle, so I'll go back to invert, I think.

Good idea on the hops- I'll probably rework those.

 

[jamesnsw]

Here's my updated version- any thoughts before I head to the LHBS tomorrow?

Original Gravity: 1.057 (1.060 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.017 (1.015 - 1.022)
Color: 16.63 (10.0 - 22.0)
Alcohol: 5.19% (6.0% - 9.0%)
Bitterness: 34.2 (30.0 - 60.0)

Ingredients:
2 oz British Black Patent
0.5 lb Wheat Malt
.5 lb Caramel Malt 120L
3.0 lb Liquid Light Extract
1 lb Invert Sugar
1.0 oz Northern Brewer (8.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
3.0 lb Liquid Light Extract
.5 oz Fuggle (4.8%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min

 

[BioBeing]

I have a TOP-inspired clone in secondary right now. I used the Wyeast 9097 blend for it, as why not. So I'm planning on a long secondary to let the Brett do it's job.

 

[jamesnsw]

I have a TOP-inspired clone in secondary right now. I used the Wyeast 9097 blend for it, as why not. So I'm planning on a long secondary to let the Brett do it's job.

Have you had a batch of this go through? How does it compare to TOP?

 

[Bob]

To get that distinctive treacle flavor, I've had success with bottle-conditioning, using treacle as the priming sugar.

Cheers!

Bob

 

[BioBeing]

Have you had a batch of this go through? How does it compare to TOP?

No, this is my first batch of this. The base recipe was from Clone Brews. Not sure how the yeast blend will change it though - first time with that too. Also, I've been away from the UK so long, I've forgotten exactly what TOP should taste like.

In related news, my beer has been renamed Shoggoth's Old Peculiar, after a Neil Gaiman short story I read last night. "Ben was mildly surprised to find he was drinking another full-bodied pint of Shoggoth's Old Peculiar. Somehow, the taste of rank goat was less offensive on the second pint."

 

[14thstreet]

I'm sure wheat malt needs to be mashed. This applies to flaked wheat as well. See link https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/wheat-malt-needs-enzymes-just-steep-92697/

 

[jamesnsw]

Update-
After a month in primary, and a month in secondary, I bottled this a week ago. I cracked one open tonight, and it's definitely undercarbed as expected 1 week later, but it is really good. Probably my best batch yet.
As I've never had OP, I have no idea if it's even similar, but it is delicious. I'll try to get a comparison, and put that up as well.

 

[14thstreet]

Good to hear, can't wait for the comparison.

 

[jamesnsw]

Two people who have had Old Peculier have now tried it. Both say it's not dead on. One said it's the same flavor, just not as "peculier". Maybe more Special B is needed. Who knows?

If anyone in the Denver area wants to do a comparison, let me know. I'm sure we can work out something.

 

[Ølbart]

There's a clone recipe for Old Peculier in Graham Wheeler's Brew Your Own British Real Ale. OG is 1.058; grist of Pale, Crystal (295 g/23 litres) and Chocolate malt (215g); Challenger and Fuggle at the start of the boil, Goldings (14 g) the last 10 minutes, "a few cones of Styrian Goldings" as dry hops. 29 IBUs.

 

[SkiGladys]

JamesNW,
I am also in Denver and I have a batch of Old Peculiarish beer in the secondary. I have opted for a long aging process and expect to bottle it in a few weeks.
I'd be interested in a comparison. I can find the original at Applejack's liquor store.
PM me and maybe we can get together in late October for a tasting.
Tim

 

[14thstreet]

Any update on this fellas?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Yorkshire ales are among my favorite beers. I would be very interested in a good clone. I have never attempted it because I am pretty sure that the very distinctive fermentation flavors are a byproduct of the Yorkshire square fermenters used. The corners in the shallow stone fermenters have stranger fermentation characteristics that lead the yeast to produce a "peculiar" combination of byproducts that go very well with these beers.

My favorite is Riggwelter. Unreal good stuff. I think the yeast combination or fermentation schedule will be the key to brewing the intangible aspects of this style.

 

[BioBeing]

Mine turned out very well, I think. The Brett definitely gave it a sour edge, but I also bottled with treacle as Bob suggested, and that helped bring back some of the original TOP sweetness. It came out pretty dry at 1.007, thanks to the Brett, but still has plenty of body. At just a touch under 10% ABV, its not a beer to be taken lightly! It definitely isn't TOP (I did find a store here that sells it), but it does have some of the basic characteristics.

 

[Rhoobarb]

Theakston's Old Peculiar. It's a very good northern English ale. I drank a lot of it in Blackburn, Lancs. ...

Are there really 4000 holes there?

I've subscribed to this thread. OP was one of the first ales I had back in 1978 on a whim and loved it. I've wanted to try and brew a clone. For some reason, I've been thinking of it a lot lately and even looked up Old Ale recipes last week to try and do what you are trying to do here!

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Hmmm..... I just did some reading and apparently, many Yorkshire squares are now round and made of stainless. Could be a DIY at some point.

 

[14thstreet]

If so, then is it possible with the right yeast strain, it is the process of regular rousing and aeration during the ferment that lends the qualities of these beers? The oxygenation would promote diacetyl among other things, but my experience with these ales is not deep to say if that's the 'peculier'ness.

Interesting read.