Old hops and the HSI

[bstacy1974]

I should have asked for advice before brewing today, but oh well. Call it an experiment.
So, I have some old hops in the freezer. Some in excess of 6 years old. Purchased from YVH, then repacked in 1oz vacuum sealed bags.
In an effort to clear my inventory, I decided to do a little research on how to utilize these ingredients. That's when I came across the Hop Stability Index or HSI. According to Beersmith, my 6 year old, 10%AA Centennial was estimated at 3.54%AA.
I ended up putting together a recipe using Centennial, Casade, and Mt Hood with the adjusted AA percentages.
13 ounces of hops had an estimated IBU of 60! There was a mountain of hops left in the kettle that forced me to leave behind a half gallon of wort.
So, has anyone else used the HSI in this way? What were your results?

 

[slayer021175666]

Yes. And, it works. You will get a fine beer from using the HSI.
Old hops never die. They just fade 'til they get used up!

 

[ebbelwoi]

Is it Hop Stability Index or Hop Storage Index?

 

[bstacy1974]

Beersmith refers to Hop Stability Index.

 

[marc1]

That seems like a lot of calculated degradation! Let us know how it works out - does the bitterness end up tasting right, or does the beer seem too bitter?

I've used old (vacuum sealed, frozen) hops and the bitterness did not seem to have dropped off very much.

The U Michigan link above shows the hop storage index (a measure of degradation) staying unchanged out to 2 years when vacuum sealed in the freezer.

 

[bstacy1974]

That's how I usually pack my hops too, but my beers have suffered a lack of flavor for awhile now.
There's a sameness to nearly everything I make. They aren't bad but just don't have the hop flavor or aroma at a level I would expect. I'm hoping this will shed some light it.
It's not my water. I use ro and calculate mineral additions with Bru'n water. Yeast is usually US05 or other neutral dry yeast like Mangrove Jack's West Coast Ale.
I hit my pH, volume, and gravity numbers right on the button most brews.
Fermentation is temp controlled.
This beer will have all the flavor I'm looking for or it will be completely undrinkable! Another 6 oz of dry hops went in the fermenter this morning. I dont expect to recover more than about 3.5 gallons due to all the sludge.
Fingers crossed.

 

[marc1]

That's how I usually pack my hops too, but my beers have suffered a lack of flavor for awhile now.
There's a sameness to nearly everything I make. They aren't bad but just don't have the hop flavor or aroma at a level I would expect. I'm hoping this will shed some light it.
It's not my water. I use ro and calculate mineral additions with Bru'n water. Yeast is usually US05 or other neutral dry yeast like Mangrove Jack's West Coast Ale.
I hit my pH, volume, and gravity numbers right on the button most brews.
Fermentation is temp controlled.
This beer will have all the flavor I'm looking for or it will be completely undrinkable! Another 6 oz of dry hops went in the fermenter this morning. I dont expect to recover more than about 3.5 gallons due to all the sludge.
Fingers crossed.

When you use fresh hops do they perform well? A process issue can be ruled out if fresh hops = great, old hops = lackluster.

 

[bstacy1974]

Kegged today. Lost another 3/4 gallon of beer due to all the hops. Probably only got about 3.5 gallons total out of this batch. Very disappointed in that. I have to find a way to strain these hops of this is how I need to use up my inventory.
Tasted a sample. It was blah. No aroma. Bitter like grapefruit aftertaste. No other flavors could be detected. I know it will change with some age and carbonation, but still not what I would call a good sample. Tasted better samples from other beers.

 

[marc1]

This is a very hoppy beer, and very hoppy beers are sensitive to oxygen post pitch. What are you doing to reduce oxygen exposure?

 

[mashpaddled]

I don't have the qualifications to make a scientific argument why but my sensory experience brewing with fairly old hops in my freezer has not supported the scientific conclusion that these hops drop off at the rate suggested by the science. A friend gave me some hops that were sealed in mylar but sat on a workbench in his garage for a couple years. I brewed an IPA with them and while it wasn't the best IPA I've ever had it wasn't anywhere near as flat or lacking in bitterness as the HSI would predict. There was absolutely drop off on both bitterness and flavor (but moreso with bitterness) but if I handed it to you to drink it would taste like a mediocre IPA at a lot of breweries.

My guess is that your issues here have a lot less to do with the age or quality of the hops and more to do with your process somewhere either introducing oxygen into the beer or the way you hop your beers around the boil is driving out a lot of the flavor. Typically I would suggest this is a water issue but if you adjust water and hit ph and gravity targets then that's probably not the problem.

 

[bstacy1974]

Thanks for the responses so far.
I'm beginning to think my process may be at issue. When I have a little more time, I'll try to go through my typical brew day.

I've seen others point toward low oxygen brewing, but I haven't taken the time to really dig into the details. I try to limit oxygen exposure after the boil, with the exception of wort aeration before pitching the yeast. I dry hop early in fermentation to so the yeast will purge or use the additional oxygen introduced. I purge my keg with CO2 and make sure the siphon tube is on the bottom during transfer. Other than that, I'm not really doing too much else.

 

[marc1]

Thanks for the responses so far.
I'm beginning to think my process may be at issue. When I have a little more time, I'll try to go through my typical brew day.

I've seen others point toward low oxygen brewing, but I haven't taken the time to really dig into the details. I try to limit oxygen exposure after the boil, with the exception of wort aeration before pitching the yeast. I dry hop early in fermentation to so the yeast will purge or use the additional oxygen introduced. I purge my keg with CO2 and make sure the siphon tube is on the bottom during transfer. Other than that, I'm not really doing too much else.

If it is O2, then places I could see it being introduced are:
-leaky fermenter
-cold crashing (if you do this)
-keg purging
-transfer

If you can provide details on all of these we can see if there's something there.

Some people find O2 reduction measures to be very helpful (I see improvement) but others don't. So you can try them out if you want and see how they work for you.