Old beer brewer, new to cider

[taoisilent]

Hello all,

I'm back into brewing after a long absence, and while I'm waiting for a new ale to condition, I thought I would experiment with cider. After all the reading I've done over the past few weeks, I have one nagging question.

I'm starting as simply as I can, as I am interested in what a basic cider tastes like. I simply added about 1/5 packet of S-04 English Ale Yeast to a gallon of Murray's Cider (VA) from Whole Foods. My OG was 1.051.

I plan to let it sit in one vessel for about a month. Then I'd like to bottle half still, and half carbonated. Now at the end of a month, I know I'll need to add some priming sugar, I plan to use dextrose (1/2 tsp per bottle). Here's my question:

Many of the forum posts and websites are advising to taste after 10 days to 2 weeks (The same for beer) and then once satisfied with the carbonation, to put it all in the fridge, or pasteurize it on the stove to halt fermentation in the bottle. Some mentioned preserving the taste or level of carbonation, others seemed to fear bottle bombs.

Now I've been bottle conditioning beer on and off for 15 years or so, and I've never had an exploding bottle, and a negligible amount of gushers, so is this a real problem with cider? Is it not possible to bottle age carbonated cider without pasteurizing?

 

[rnm410]

Good Q, subscribed!

 

[Randzor]

They want a sweet cider. If you like dry things don't worry about it. Tbh with you wanting a baseline id just follow what you originally had planned.

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[KeyWestBrewing]

The catch is that the yeast will continue to ferment the cider pretty dry. Towards the end it goes really slow, like enough to not change the gravity over a day or two, but its still chugging along and that can create bottle bombs.
Because I bottle and want carbonated cider I backsweeten and pasteurize all my batches. The only time it can be an issue is if you let the cider get too carbed before you try to pasteurize. The pressure built up will make bottles blow up so its important to not try to pasteurize if its too carbed. Since its a fine line I err on the side of caution and open a bottle every other day to check the carb level. A good tip to prevent getting hurt by a glass grenade and minimize clean up should one happen is to pasteurize the whole batch at once in a cooler. Saves time and it will contain the blast if a bottle blows. Just make sure to account for the heat the cooler and bottles will absorb so it still settles at 160.
Now with the approach you've mentioned if the cider is totally finished you can probably get away without having to pasteurize, especially if you have room in the fridge for the bottles once they're carbed up.

 

[JR_Brewer]

KeyWest is right on target. As long as you're ok with a dry cider (and it can turn out REALLY dry) and you make sure fermentation is done before bottling, your method will work.

He also makes a good point about pasteurizing in a cooler. It's unsettling when you're stove-top pasteurizing a batch and a bottle with a bad cap starts hissing... get the safety glasses out and hope for the best.

Good luck!

 

[taoisilent]

Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's given me something to think about for sure. Beer bottling (to me, anyway) is so much more straightforward. I usually leave my ales in the primary for a month and then bottle. I know it's done, and only take a FG reading for my notes.

Tasting the cider regularly and taking gravity readings to make sure it doesn't finish too dry are fairly alien concepts to me, but I'll manage The whole point of this experiment was to give me something else to do and something new to learn.

I'll just have to remember to relax, not worry, and well... you know the rest

Cheers!

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

If you don't want it too dry then you can backsweeten the cider though you'll have to bottle pasteurize for sure of you do that. Personally honey really seems to bring out the apple flavor so that's my go to for backsweetening.

 

[taoisilent]

Well, it's been about 5 days, and since I was checking the gravity of my 21 day old Caribou Slobber (1.009), I thought I would look at the cider too.

OG was 1.051, currently is 1.017. It tastes quite good but very sweet and fizzy. I want it sweet, but not this sweet. I'll check again in a few days

 

[brewski09]

Does anyone know how dry the cider will actually ferment to? Are we talking 0.995 like a Mead or more like 1.008?

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[Rhu]

My S-04's have gone from 1.070 to 1.002 but I'm fermenting at warmer temps than you, so they may have gone further...

 

[jflongo]

With Ale yeast more than likely it won't dry out as far as wine and cider yeast, and will end up a hair sweeter, depends on if you over pitch or not. I ALWAYS let my ciders sit in primary for 2 - 3 weeks, and then rack it into a carboy, and let it sit for a couple of more weeks. I generally ferment mine in the low to mid 60's F temp. After it has been fermenting for a few weeks, go ahead and rack it into a new jug and let it clear up some and finish out. I have two huge 6 gallon batches going right now, one with a English Ale yeast, and one with a Scottish Ale yeast, they both spent about 3 weeks in primary, and have been in secondary for about 2 weeks now, and they are still not done yet.

Cider just like wine, takes a little more patience.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

One thing I think is worth mentioning... If you let the temps get too high the yeast will kick off too much esters and IMO it throws off the flavor of the cider. Makes it taste too beer-like instead of like cider. For this reason I also like to ferment in the low to mid 60s.

 

[brewski09]

Planning on using Nottingham that way keywest. I read good things on the white labs release about some of the British ale yeasts for ciders and the Notty is inexpensive at my LHBS in dry format. I've also heard Notty does well into the high 50's.

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[KeyWestBrewing]

Planning on using Nottingham that way keywest. I read good things on the white labs release about some of the British ale yeasts for ciders and the Notty is inexpensive at my LHBS in dry format. I've also heard Notty does well into the high 50's.

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I use Notty for all my ciders now. Clean character and as you mentioned, inexpensive.

 

[domilsean]

I just checked my notes, and the driest I got, using White Labs English cider yeast WLP775, was 1.000, just letting it go until it stopped. I checked after 2 weeks and it was still 1.000

I put that in secondary for a month, then bottled. That got bottled end of October. Right now, it tastes the best it's been. The apple flavor has returned, but it's not sweet, but not bone dry either.

 

[domilsean]

I just checked my notes, and the driest I got, using White Labs English cider yeast WLP775, was 1.000, just letting it go until it stopped. I checked after 2 weeks and it was still 1.000

I put that in secondary for a month, then bottled. That got bottled end of October. Right now, it tastes the best it's been. The apple flavor has returned, but it's not sweet, but not bone dry either.

 

[brewski09]

Just curious of anyone who used Nottingham took an FG reading before back sweetening it?

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