OFFICIAL Kate the Great Russian Imperial Stout Clone

[Taxovich]

You should always rehydrate yeast in water. John Palmer: "Often the concentration of sugars in wort is high enough that the yeast can not draw enough water across the cell membranes to restart their metabolism." I'm not going to look up a cite for how osmosis works, but the tl/dr is this: rehydrating properly (with warm water) will give you much more viable yeast than sprinkling the yeast directly on the wort. This would be especially important if you are dealing with a high-gravity wort (like RIS).

 

[lemmiwinks]

In the OP, Todd's instructions on the PM version are to just let the grains drain over the the steeped water as it comes to a boil.
My question is would it be better suited to this recipe like Deathbrewer describes here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/, or like Todd's instructions say with simply letting the grains drain.

 

[1Mainebrew]

Email him. Just go to the contact section of the Portsmouth brewery website.

 

[gingerdawg]

Bottled this today and I'm P.Oed. I'm P.Oed that I didn't brew a bigger batch!!! I brewed a 2.5 gallon batch on 11/10/11, primary for 1 month and 10 days, secondary for a month on port soaked oak and bottled today. It's green and flat and wonderful. I can't wait for the 5-6 month aging to finish. I drank the hydro samples, and the 1/2 bottle at the end of bottling and I'm stoked:fro:!

 

[hoboscratch]

I brewed this last April and it is finally in the bottle and carbed. One thing I did which I would change, is I soaked my oak spirals in port wine like the recipe calls for, but I put in half of the port that I had the oak soaking in, which amounted to probably 1/3 or more of a bottle. The port is definitely the dominate flavor. I added some vanilla beans to maybe distract from some of that port flavor, and it made a difference. This was my first time experimenting with oak so next time I will do it differently. Just toss in the oak and then if its not oaky enough, keep adding some port until I have the right flavor. Not just pour it all in.

 

[lewybrewing]

Yesterday I tried my KTG on tap for the 1st time. Flat out the best RIS I've ever had. I wish I could send little vodka size bottles to everyone in this post.

Here is a quick breakdown:

Changed the recipe a little I have it posted here.

Brewed last last May.
Oak Cubes soaked for 4 weeks
Added to the beer, soaked for 6 months.
bottled 1/2 and keged 1/2.

Thanks again for the great original recipe to get me started on this adventure.

 

[sneeron]

Made this on 1/8/12 just transferred to my secondary last night and oaked it. After taking a gravity drank some and while still green tasted awesome . I also partigyled a 1.040 stout that I cleaned out my hop drawer into. I didn't take a taste of the small beer but will be kegging it next week.24lbs of grain and 7.5 gallons of water put my 10 gallon mash tun to the rim.my first big beer, I want to bottle some and keg the rest.

 

[lemmiwinks]

Brewed the PM BIAB stovetop version in the OP last night with some 2-row thrown in as well.

OG came in at 1.102 so I'm betting my efficiency was crap.
This will most likely be my last extract/PM batch since I already bought and converted two HD coolers into an MLT and HLT and I'll be purchasing a new 10g kettle when Uncle Sam reimburses me my tax free loan I gave him for the year.

 

[bnuttz]

I copied this from the Beeradvocate forum. Someone emailed Tod and got the oak and port regime from him.

All of Kate is lightly oaked. We make our own Portwood simply by infusing oak spirals ( The Barrel Mill, Avon, MN- 800.201.7125) with local Port. Of course if I told you the amounts and proportions I have to kill you!! Actually, we take 6 spirals and break them up, place them into a 10 gal. corny keg and pour 3 bottles of Tawney Port over the spirals. We add about 10 PSI to the keg and let the concoction sit for 18-25 days. Then we fill the remainder of the 10 gal. keg with Kate. Let it sit at ambient temp for 45-60 days then inject the 10 gals back into the 440 gals of KtG. Once the keg is empty we then back fill the 10 gals and let the Kate sit on the oak for another 6 months. This become the double oaked Kate. Very rare, only about 56 bottles produced. Hope this helps. Kate can age for 6 years once in bottles, if truth be known!! Cheers! Tod Mott

 

[Batinse]

Thanks, bnuttz!

 

[Biscostew]

Just dumped my 5 gal batch of Kate the Great after 6 months of aging, beer sucumbed to an acetobacter infection. Got lazy and didnt properly seal the corny keg I was secondarying in. Sad day, will brew again in a few months though.

 

[j1laskey]

KTG will be tapped on March 5th 2012. Here is the link to the Portsmouth Beer Week.

http://portsmouthbeerweek.com/

 

[CidahMastah]

I copied this from the Beeradvocate forum. Someone emailed Tod and got the oak and port regime from him.

All of Kate is lightly oaked. We make our own Portwood simply by infusing oak spirals ( The Barrel Mill, Avon, MN- 800.201.7125) with local Port. Of course if I told you the amounts and proportions I have to kill you!! Actually, we take 6 spirals and break them up, place them into a 10 gal. corny keg and pour 3 bottles of Tawney Port over the spirals. We add about 10 PSI to the keg and let the concoction sit for 18-25 days. Then we fill the remainder of the 10 gal. keg with Kate. Let it sit at ambient temp for 45-60 days then inject the 10 gals back into the 440 gals of KtG. Once the keg is empty we then back fill the 10 gals and let the Kate sit on the oak for another 6 months. This become the double oaked Kate. Very rare, only about 56 bottles produced. Hope this helps. Kate can age for 6 years once in bottles, if truth be known!! Cheers! Tod Mott

So if I read that right:

Port bottles (750ml?) x 3 = ~80oz (or 2.5quarts)
Kate for "concoction" (37.5 quarts)
1. Use ratio of 1:15 for your port/kate concoction

11G batch would require .25G of "concoction" ((11x10)/440y= .25G, or 1 quart (32oz) concoction)


Concoction mix
1x + 15x = 32oz (.25G), therefore x = 2oz
So based on that
2oz Tawny Port + 30oz Kate

Now to determine spirals:
((6x.25)/10=.15 spiral per 11G

Two issues being:
1. What sized bottles of port are used
2. How big are the spirals (.15 spirals is tiny). They might be using spirals that are 2 feet long

Final result is to make 1 quart concoction with the following for an 11G batch:
a. 2oz Tawny Port
b. 30oz Kate
c. .15 oak spiral (not sure what length they use; probably best to use the recc dosage for 11G or to taste)
(they sell oak in up to 48'' x 4'' thick)

For me I think next time I will just toss in 2oz of port into each keg with the recc dosage of oak spirals for 11G. Which fortunately is pretty much what I did this time around.

 

[smagee]

Nice work on the number crunching; it was on my "to-do (eventually)" list, so I'm quite grateful that someone beat me to the punch. Next time around I may try the recipe as-instructed, now that we seem to have the comprehensive version. Although I must admit, the bourbon vanilla version has proven quite popular; I can hardly wait to put it on tap.

 

[bnuttz]

So if I read that right:

Port bottles (750ml?) x 3 = ~80oz (or 2.5quarts)
Kate for "concoction" (17.5 quarts)
1. Use ratio of 1:7 for your oak/port concoction

11G batch would require .25G of "concoction" ((11x10)/440y= .25G, or 1 quart (32oz) concoction)


Concoction mix
1x + 7x = 32oz (.25G), therefore x = 4oz
So based on that
4oz Tawny Port + 28oz Kate

Now to determine spirals:
((6x.25)/10=.15 spiral per 11G

Two issues being:
1. What sized bottles of port are used
2. How big are the spirals (.15 spirals is tiny). They might be using spirals that are 2 feet long

Final result is to make 1 quart concoction with the following for an 11G batch:
a. 4oz Tawny Port
b. 28oz Kate
c. .15 oak spiral (not sure what length they use; probably best to use the recc dosage for 11G or to taste)
(they sell oak in up to 48'' x 4'' thick)

For me I think next time I will just toss in 4oz of port into each keg with the recc dosage of oak spirals for 11G. Which fortunately is pretty much what I did this time around.

Actually, I think he is only adding half that amount of Port. In your concoction you have 17.5 qts of Kate, but he says he is using 10 gallon kegs, so wouldn't you need 37.5 qts of Kate?

 

[CidahMastah]

oop you are right - not sure why I used a 5 gallon keg in my math. So to correct:

2oz port:30oz kate for concoction + oaking for 11G batch

I updated the above post to be correct

That is why I am not an accountant

 

[bguzz]

I have 1.25 oz of American medium toast cubes sitting on some port. I am thinking of letting it soak for 1 month in the port and then let my 5 gallon batch sit on the cubes for 2 months. Does this sound about right (and enough)? then i plan to let it all age in bottles for 6 more months at least (some for a year). When I put the cubes in, should I also dump the 1/2 pint of port in with the cubes? or decant off the port first?

 

[mountainman13]

Here's what I did- I did a two month primary and racked it to a corny. When I racked it, I bought a small bottle of port(not sure what size, but I'd say the bottle was about the size of a pint), threw my wood (he he) right in the bottle and let it sit for two months, then dumped the whole thing in the corny and let it sit for another month. All times are approximate, as this is a hobby after all. I just pulled a sample and the port is prevalent, a little more than I'd like. I'm getting ready to bottle it today and am hoping the port flavor will subside a bit, and I'm sure it will. I'll let you know in a few months.

 

[lewybrewing]

Mine is going into the NHC in the San Diego region so I can't wait to see what the judges think.

 

[bottlebomber]

Mine is going into the NHC in the San Diego region so I can't wait to see what the judges think.

What are you going to enter it under out of curiosity?

 

[strumke]

Any tasting notes from people that have let this condition & age?

AG/PM?
How much oak and how long on oak?
How long in total for aging?

 

[lewybrewing]

What are you going to enter it under out of curiosity?

Imperial Stout. 13F If I can remember off the top of my head.

 

[bottlebomber]

Imperial Stout. 13F If I can remember off the top of my head.

Will they take it as a RIS with the wood and port? I thought it would be either wood aged or specialty

 

[Sdragon980]

I entered mine as wood aged category.

 

[lewybrewing]

They will take any beer in any category. Just because you used something doesn't disqualify it, unless it a detectable part of the beer. On mine the wood is now an afterthought, not pronounced at all. Most of it gone and turned into vanilla and maple flavors. I could always change it before dropping off the sample if needed.

 

[bguzz]

i just did my second 5 gallon batch of this. This time I used 12 lbs of grain and 6lbs of DME to boost my efficiency and well...it was a lot of grain the first time (which is still in the secondary). I hit 1.120 and did 3 packets of us05. We'll see how this one goes compared to the other. I am using 1.25 oz of oak that has been sitting in port for 1 month in each batch. I plan to age it 2 months on the oak and then keg to bottle and let it sit for another 6 before I crack one open.

 

[JonM]

Wow - having a glass of this right now. My batch is about 11 months old (bulk aged 5, bottle conditioned 6) and it is amazing. Malt and dark fruit notes up front and a loooooong finish with roasty and subtle chocolate/burned flavors.

 

[sneeron]

Made this on January 8th and took a bottle to my May club meeting for tasting notes. Altho young still wanted to open one and also get feed back befor a whole year well awesome was the comment used most that and bury this deep for another 6 months to bring out full potential. Lots of legs on this one with a thick mouthfeel that coats the whole way down. Now to leave alone until new years! I will need to do this again soon. I also partigyled a black IPA from second runnings that was a most do again.

 

[strumke]

CRAP, I made this yesterday and while cleaning up today I found 22oz of flaked barley sitting on the counter that I forgot to add.

Aside from RDWHAHB, what should I expect...less mouthfeel? Anything I can do now? Can I mash this with a bit of water and add it to the fermentor?

EDIT: Just made a mini mash with 1lb 6oz of the flaked barley, 11oz of 2-row, and ~2 quarts of water... holding at 156 for 45 min, a quick boil and then into the fermentor.

 

[gmcastil]

I brewed this last night as a 3 gallon, full boil, no sparge, BIAB. Had no problems hitting the right volume or final gravity. I did a few things differently though. I doubled the percentages of black patent, roasted barley, and chocolate malt based on another brewers recommendation:

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2011/04/portsmouth-kate-great-clone-recipe.html

Also, I first wort hopped with the 15 minute flavoring addition, threw the whirlpool addition in at flameout, and then let it sit without chilling for 20 minutes. It's fermenting in my chest freezer at 64 degrees right now and I will most likely leave it on the yeast for 4 weeks before oaking in secondary. Looks to be a mighty brew and hopefully, it'll be ready by Christmas.