Office water cooler as temp control?

[Polboy]

So i have been thinking and searching if its possible to use office water cooler (heating/cooling one) as a main element of fermentation temperature control system, and i dont find much information. My idea is to use plastic bin big enough to fit 2 carboys/buckets, fill it with water, add water aquarium pump (or 2) and recirculate water through water cooler heating/cooling elements. Easiest way would be to setup water cooler above fermentation bin and let water (cold or hot) flow back by gravity force. One could imagine connecting temp control element and plugging two water pumps in to it (one for heating where recirculation goes through heating element and 2nd for cooling) but i dont know how to control valves, or use one pump and wire temp controller to open hot or cold spigot (have no idea if this is even possible, solenoid valve?).
Does anyone seen project like that, is it doable or its not worth to bother and i should get chest freezer (price, big footprint and small mobility of chest freezer make me look for alternatives)

 

[Stevo2569]

Alot of thread views and no responses. So for the benefit of the community maybe you should try it and report back. Good Luck

 

[Polboy]

i had been looking at schematics whatever is available online and looks like water cooler with hot water option has small reservoir for cold and hot water and it always have ~2 pints hot/cold water ready for instant delivery. I think easier and more elegant option would be to put copper coil inside hot/cold element and run water through it with 2x aquarium pumps plugged in to temp controller.

 

[LuckyKid]

I've been thinking about a similar concept using hot and cold tap water and dish washer solenoids hooked up to a microcontroller and a PC.

There would be a drain tube a dividers to so the water flows properly.

Problem is that there is no way a custom solution like this would be cost effective or better than, currently available and well tested solutions. I think there is just too much that needs to be figured out the hard way, before its a worth while solution.

That said, I think you would go for it and share your trials and results!

 

[BigUgly]

Wow, you guys are seriously over-thinking this.

- Chest freezer (</=$150)
- Temperature controller ($60)

No rigging, no wiring (if Johnson or Ranco used), no pumps - just easy temperature control with a push of a button.

 

[seatbelt123]

Wow, you guys are seriously over-thinking this.

- Chest freezer (</=$150)
- Temperature controller ($60)

No rigging, no wiring (if Johnson or Ranco used), no pumps - just easy temperature control with a push of a button.

Amen. Just bought a 4.7 cu Holiday on CL for $50, + $18 for the eBay temp controller (like I have on the keezer). Cheap, easy and works great. Plus I can fit two kegs in it when I'm not fermenting.

 

[kladue]

The water cooler as a ferment temperature control method is quite viable, just requires some effort to build a system with a circulating pump and temperature control. First water cooler chiller system I helped build was 16 years ago, and fed an internal 50 foot SS coil in a 20 Gallon conical. Latest build uses tandem 6 GPH remote chillers and cooling plates for carboys. Control system manages up to 6 cooling heating schedules I can do lagers and ales side by side with carboys on shelving. Here is an old picture of the cooling band for a carboy https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/CarboyCoolingSystem#5256434297933178562, coolant is constantly flowing and solenoid controls flow to maintain temp. Here is a shot of the coolers and storage tank https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/CoolingSystem#5248653811431295522. And here is the control screen for fermentation https://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/OneTouchProgramGraphics#5610103947234958722
The water cooler will take some work to modify the cooling chamber connections, but the net cooling capacity is more than enough for an insulated 20 gallon conical.
If you have the skills go for it, otherwise follow the rest and use a plug in controller for a freezer.

 

[BigUgly]

Like I said: freezer & temperature controller.

 

[kladue]

I just love this place, the do what you know folks strike again.

 

[BigUgly]

I just love this place, the do what you know folks strike again.

It's called doing what works without geeking out. Why go through all of that BS when you can just plug a controller into the wall with a cheat freezer?! We do what we know because it is simple, you don't waste time trying to outthink yourself and it WORKS.

What you are suggesting is the equivalent of building the Golden Gate Bridge to cross a stream... it doesn't make sense to make some elaborate temperature control system.

 

[Polboy]

It's called doing what works without geeking out. Why go through all of that BS when you can just plug a controller into the wall with a cheat freezer?! We do what we know because it is simple, you don't waste time trying to outthink yourself and it WORKS.

What you are suggesting is the equivalent of building the Golden Gate Bridge to cross a stream... it doesn't make sense to make some elaborate temperature control system.

Because simply i dont hava a room for a chest, i have a fermenting table and brewing garage, i can put 6 carboys/buckets on top and 4 on bottom shelve of my table, i use bottom shave to store my grain (200lbs) in hd buckets and top for primary and 2ndary. I could fit water cooler on that table but there is no way i could find room for a chest freezer

 

[kladue]

If you are limited by what you know, don't expect that others suffer the same limitations, the keezer is the simplest approach, the water cooler method is definitely not for beginners. With a temperature controller and pump you can have a single fermenter temperature control, using the original pump and an additional controller with solenoid and you can do two fermenters, you now can have different setpoints for each fermenter that a keezer will not do and ability to do lagers and ales side by side. The construction is not difficult, a couple hours and some compression fittings for the cooler, copper tubing wound around carboy and insulation, 110V solenoids and controllers, and a LG pump.

 

[mcflyfisher]

I think this is a fine idea. I ferment in a temp controlled fridge and a temp controlled AC unit powered compartment. I do this, because I have the space. I keep looking at conicals, and can't pull the trigger simply because I can't find an appropriate way to cool them. I will likely be posting a "too much effort" temp control build once I get a good idea of what to do. This is inspiring. My basement runs in the upper 50's during the winter and upper 60's during the summer. I really have to do two stage temp control as the ferment either starts too hot and stays too hot, or it starts just right or maybe too cold and gets too cold as it goes. The OP's idea may be a lot of work, but I see the potential for a very elegant solution.

 

[Polboy]

I got water cooler from CL for $10, i just took it apart and put it back together, i hope it still works , i have few observations:
-Installing cooling coil should be easy, its kind of design for this , i will try this this week
-getting in to hot water container is virtually impossible, its a sealed mini boiler kind of thing but i also realized that it will be easier and cheaper to use aquarium heater in my system
- water coolers are freaking nasty and i mean NASTY, if you use it for drinking water just stop or at least run few gal of starsan through it every few months

 

[nebben]

I have seen one of these taken apart at my work, and I got the heating portion of the defunct water cooler system under my desk right now. The heater consists of a ~5" diameter cylinder that might be a foot long. It has four ports- I don't know what they are for, as I haven't cut this thing open yet. It is pressed together and has two contacts on the bottom for the heater element.

The cold water part looks like it is just a water trough in the machine that is refrigerated.

I had considered taking one of these machines apart years ago, and building some sort of recirculating system so that I could heat or cool to any desired temp, even on multiple coolant circuits. There would be plumbing required, pumps, and sensors. After considering everything, I settled on the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid!) and ferment lagers in my basement during wintertime where the temp is already 50F consistently, and do ales with a fish tank heater in a trash can filled with water around a carboy if heat is necessary.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but with all the extra parts and engineering involved, I would only get marginal improvement over extremely simple and effective solutions that I already have. The cost was another factor.

On a similar note, I did read about some folks that set up a glycol bath in a small rubbermaid container within an existing freezer, and installed two heat exchangers with plumbing- one in the glycol bath and another in their fermentation chamber. If I remember correctly, there was a thermostat and a pump involved. When the fermentation chamber needed to be cooled, the pump would move chilled coolant through the heat exchanger in the glycol bath within the freezer, and it would then draw heat out of the fermentation chamber when it moved through the heat exchanger there. It looked like less work than the water cooler idea, and quite effective.

 

[Polboy]

Ok just installed copper coil in cold water tank, it was very easy, i have few pictures below:


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Whole unit, it has minifridge below, perfect for 2L starter flask



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This is water container after removing top cover (its design for easy dissemble for cleaning), below the plastic that can be unscrew is cold water compartment, 38 F



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Thats the plastic shield with 20' 1/4" of copper coil



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This is after putting it back together
I didnt have pvc tubing of correct size to finish the cooler part, i will try to do it tomorrow (this would work already as is but i want to put it back together with tubes on the back of the cooler and installed water bottle, it still should work like normal water cooler)
I also ordered water pump from amazon http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002HFTKW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I should be able to test the whole system this week

 

[Polboy]

I did small test today, i connected water pump to the system and let it run for 7 hours. I will have to get bigger container, the one i have is 18gal size but i didnt feel comfortable putting more than 9gal in it, it should work for one bucket/carboy but i would like to have 40gal size. Water temperature went down from 62 to 51 in 7hours (ambient was 63), it seems long but when i shut it off it was still going down so this may work for me (maintain temperature of water/wort at 12 degrees or more below ambient). I ordered 2stage temp controller so in few weeks i will update this thread with real temperature control results


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[Polboy]

Im almost done with this project and its working really nice. I brew 10gal of house ale on Friday night, put two 6.5gal carboys in my 27gal tote, added 9-10gal of water and turned the system on, initial temp was 72 but after 30min it was at 66F and its there for last 40h, next weekend when fermentation is done im going to play with it a little bit and take a notes how long does it take to cool and heat everything in range 60-72F, real test of the system in march when i will brew a belgian and ferment it with 3787 at low 60F at the beginning and finish in high 70 at the end but for full cooling test i will have to wait till mid of summer when temp in my basement will be in high 70 low 80. Few pic below:

27gal tote with 2 carboys in the middle

temp probe is in right bottom corner, 150W aquarium heater in the middle and water pump in right top corner of the box

ebay temp controller
I will have to organize cables and tubes a little and cut two holes in the lid so i can cover the tote (carboys/buckets will be sticking out) and get the water jug for the cooler but thats it.
Cost:
cooler $10 CL
copper coil $12 lowes
tote $15 lowes
pump $15 amazon
temp controller $24 from ebay
parts for controller (box, cable, outlet) $20 lowes
aquarium heater $12 amazon
tubes and connectors i had already

 

[nebben]

Awesome!

It looks like it is a lot more doable than I thought when I gave up on it many months ago.

 

[yrewerb]

Interesting.

I took a different approach to put together a fermentation setup for a carboy using an office cooler. What I did, was re-plump the hot and cold water tanks and connect each of them to separate aquarium pumps. From the pumps the cold or hot water goes to copper coils that sit in a 12 gallon "Ice Cube" cooler which contains the carboy, the water then returns to the tanks. The pumps are controlled by an Ebay aquarium temp controller.

 

[coroboto]

yrewerb can you show or describe how you plumbed return lines? I would prefer to have a cold and hot sealed unit. without the need for copper tubing.

Plus has anyone tried this method for three carboys? is there enough chilling/heating power to change the temp of more than 20 gallons of water?

 

[yrewerb]

In my cooler, there are two ports in the cold tank, and four in the hot tank. One of the cold ports is used to dispense cold water and the other connects to one of the hot tank ports. That connection normally dispenses warm water. Of the other three hot ports, one dispenses hot water, one is to drain the system and the other is a vent to the top of the cold water tank.

I added a tee and a valve in the warm water connection between the two tanks. This let me use both cold water ports for circulation when the valve is closed. The warm water port (on the other side of the valve) and the hot water port are used for circulation through the hot water tank. When the valve is open, the hot water tank can be filled by putting water into the cold water tank.

I can't post pictures, but located here is a picture of the plumbing - i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee276/s3pics/Office_Cooler_Plumbing.jpg

This is how it looks put together - i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee276/s3pics/Office_Cooler.jpg

The current snag is that the hot water is set for 190 degrees which is too hot. I need to see if it can be adjusted.

I believe that the hot side could handle 20 gallons, but the cold side doesn't transfer the heat as well. It took six hours to chill ~8 gallons from 73 degrees to 53 degrees.

 

[Polboy]

I have to say it is complicated system and im not sure how does it work but can you just set desire temperature on your controller and it will take you there without you turning valves on/off? (my initial idea was little similar to yours but then i got stuck because i didnt know how to fully automate it). Also i dont think that 6h for cooling 8gal of water by 20 degrees is terrible, i have an impression it wouldnt be much faster if you would put 8gal in the fridge

 

[yrewerb]

It may look complicated, but the basic idea is pretty simple. One pump circulates water through the cold water tank which then goes through a coil and back to the pump. The other pump does the same thing with the hot water tank. The coils sit in a water filled container which holds the carboy. The temp controller turns the "hot pump on when the temp gets too low, and the "cold" pump on when the temp is too high. The valve is only opened to initially fill the hot water tank, lines and coil because the hot tank is not open on the top like the cold water tank.

 

[Tinga]

I use a water method now but im building a dry one. The sitting water gets gross after a while so you'll want to change or circulate it.

add some bleach

 

[earwig]

add some bleach

haha, my quote was meant for another thread but thanks... I'm only 1/2 awake. I don't mess with blease though because I always end up ruining my clothes. I don't know if I'm a bumbling idiot or what.