Off the Charts Ester/Alcohol Smell and Taste

[EternalBrewboy]

About a month ago I took the plunge and started home brewing after doing a ton of research (reading both John Palmer's book and Papazian's). My first batch (a malt extract+special grains IPA) seemed to do just fine throughout the whole process and I was completely satisfied with it by the time I bottled.

Now that I've opened my first bottle I'm sure something went wrong, but I'm not sure what. The beer smells and tastes of extreme amounts of esters almost to the point of having a solvent-like aftertaste. This is the same smell the beer had when I racked it from my primary to my secondary as well as when I bottled it, but I had no clue it was off then.

Fast forward to two days ago when I'm racking my second brew (again, malt extract+special grains but this time a Stout). I'm getting the same exact ester/alcohol/solvent-like smell. From what I've researched I know that such an issue can be the result of high fermentation temps, but I'm almost positive that's not the issue considering it's the middle of winter and I live in BC. The closet I have my beer in sits at a constant ~65 degrees all day. I've also been told that this flavor/smell can be a result of not pitching enough yeast or under-aerating the wort before pitching. I've been told I should start making starters and I'm sure I will now.

At this point these two brews are beyond help, I'm not tossing them as I've gone through the "Ruined Beer" sticky and learned they might have a chance. I just need to know if it's worth saving them in the hopes that they might get better and what I can do with my next brews to stop this from happening. Sorry for the long-winded post but I've really enjoyed my time brewing and I'll be biting my nails off until I can solve this problem.

 

[BigFloyd]

Another (much more simple) option for someone in your shoes is to use dry yeast for the styles you are currently doing.

Properly rehydrated (which is easy), an 11 gram packet will give you plenty of cells for a 1.058 or lower 5.5 gallon batch or wort.

US-05 for the IPA, Nottingham for the stout.

How long did you let your bottles carb/condition and at what temp? If you leave them alone another month or two, you may get a pleasant surprise. 65*F is a bit low for bottle carbing and it will tend to take longer.

 

[pelipen]

What kind of yeast are you using? dry yeast doesn't need a starter, but white labs or wyeast benefit.

Your temps are not off the charts. Yeast pitch rate, temperature control, and sanitation are probably the three best things you can do for beer. IMO.

Definitely keep them. IPA'S lose their punch, but the other might mellow out. Don't toss until next year, or at least six months.

 

[EPS]

I opened a oatmeal stout tonight that i brewed over a year ago and it was excellent compared 2 even six months ago i would throw them in your closet and just wait i thought my stout wasn't very good and now i think its one of the best i have had so patience will set your beer free

 

[EternalBrewboy]

My first batch used a dry Ale Yeast from the local homebrew store and this current stout is using White Labs Irish Ale yeast. The IPA has been bottled for 2 weeks now and the stout was racked 5 days after pitching my yeast.

I'm just worried that I shouldn't have to keep these bottled just to get rid of such strange flavors. I could imagine doing so to mellow it out in terms of an actual alcohol taste, but this is so far towards the solvent-like flavor that it certainly feels like something went wrong. I don't mind keeping them, I just want to fix this before I move forward.

I had my wife taste some of the IPA as well to make sure I wasn't being hyper-critical and she agreed that something was wrong.

 

[snowtires]

Where in bc are you?

 

[EternalBrewboy]

I live in downtown Vancouver.

 

[EternalBrewboy]

I just remembered something that might have had an effect on this, although I suspect if it had any effect it would be more of an infection issue. What I've read from John Palmer proposes that I boil and cool the water that I'll be adding into the fermenter with the cooled wort while Papazian's book and the info I picked up from the local homebrew shop said I could get that cool water straight from the tap. Could this be an issue? Is this something I should worry about for future brews?

 

[snowtires]

Did you check the tempurature of the wort before you added the yeast? If the wort was too hot it may have killed too much yeast and make them get pretty upset.

 

[BigFloyd]

Did you check the tempurature of the wort before you added the yeast? If the wort was too hot it may have killed too much yeast and make them get pretty upset.

That very well could be the main issue. By pitching into wort that is too warm, you not only decrease the number of cells, but the ones that live may not be all that healthy, resulting in "petite mutation" and production of off-flavors.

Next time pay careful attention to:

1) getting your wort cooled down to about 65 degrees,

2) if you rehydrate dry yeast (which is a good thing to do), attemperate it to the wort temp (+/- 10 degrees) by blending small portions of wort into the yeast slurry in 5 minute intervals. Trying to let the yeast slurry cool down via natural heat loss takes too long since you rehydrate yeast using 90-92*F sterilized water.

If you plan on brewing much, consider building or buying a wort chiller.

 

[EternalBrewboy]

Ahhh well, it seems like there are various things that I can do better/right that will certainly help my future batches. Thanks for all the input and help everyone.

 

[JimRausch]

My first batch used a dry Ale Yeast from the local homebrew store and this current stout is using White Labs Irish Ale yeast. The IPA has been bottled for 2 weeks now and the stout was racked 5 days after pitching my yeast.

I'm just worried that I shouldn't have to keep these bottled just to get rid of such strange flavors. I could imagine doing so to mellow it out in terms of an actual alcohol taste, but this is so far towards the solvent-like flavor that it certainly feels like something went wrong. I don't mind keeping them, I just want to fix this before I move forward.

I had my wife taste some of the IPA as well to make sure I wasn't being hyper-critical and she agreed that something was wrong.

I may have picked up on something- if you are racking after only 5 days on your yeast cake, then you really aren't leaving enough time for your yeast to cleanup their by-products and potential off-flavors. It would be better to let them sit for at least 2 weeks before transferring.

 

[JimRausch]

oops-double post

 

[EternalBrewboy]

I may have picked up on something- if you are racking after only 5 days on your yeast cake, then you really aren't leaving enough time for your yeast to cleanup their by-products and potential off-flavors. It would be better to let them sit for at least 2 weeks before transferring.

That's a nice simple solution that I'm certainly happy to try. I guess I've been mislead by the various "How To" sources I've read, or maybe I haven't read as thoroughly as I thought I did.

Since I didn't let my second batch sit and clean itself up, can I just leave it in the secondary and hope it will do something, albeit after a longer time?

 

[JimRausch]

That's a nice simple solution that I'm certainly happy to try. I guess I've been mislead by the various "How To" sources I've read, or maybe I haven't read as thoroughly as I thought I did.

Since I didn't let my second batch sit and clean itself up, can I just leave it in the secondary and hope it will do something, albeit after a longer time?

When I 1st started(just over a year ago) I read alot as well- Palmer, 2 of Charlie P.s, and Synder. Thought I had everything covered. Until I started brewing..... Then I learned more by doing, and found this forum. You'll find there are alot of different opinions, but keep reading, keep experimenting and adjusting, and do what seems right to you.
In answer to your Q: There's plenty of yeast in solution so give it another 2-3 weeks in your secondary before thinking about bottling.
Good luck and Good brew!

 

[bchurch]

I agree with letting it sit longer in the primary, at least 2 weeks. I stopped using a secondary on most of my beers and just let it sit for 3 to 4 weeks in the primary. I am in the US and have no idea about your water up there but it might be a good idea to find out about your water. I had to purchase some camden tablets to use my tap water and it is a vast improvement.

 

[RM-MN]

You said you live in Vancouver, BC. Did you do anything to treat your water to remove chlorine or chloramine? That is pretty common in city water and will give you off flavors even if you do everything else perfect.

 

[EternalBrewboy]

What are the proper levels of chlorine and other wonderful by-products in the water used for beer? From what I can find the water in my area has >0.2 mg/L of chlorine (0.7 and 1.1 for both readings in December) and anywhere from a 6.5-8.5 pH level.

 

[stpug]

IMO 65*F ambient temps are all little warm for the bulk of fermentation. I think those temps are perfectly fine for post fermentation but a vigorous fermentation will get several-10 degrees F above ambient. Your brews were probably fermented in the 70-73F range. The Irish Ale yeast you used will start having fruity esters at around 64F and they will get stronger the higher the temps.

Edit: however 70F should not cause solventy characteristics. Did you use bleach as a sanitizer?

 

[RM-MN]

If you let your water sit for a period of time, the chlorine will disappear from the water and you'll be fine brewing with it. Some municipalities are adding chloramine and that is harder to get rid of. A half of a campden tablet is supposed to take care of both in a 5 gallon batch.

 

[snowtires]

I dont think any of these things on their own (chlorine, yeast hydrating, racking early etc)are going to make your beer solventy except tempuratures and yeast. Next time, check your temp before pitching your yeast and put some sort of thermometer on your primary fermenter. Ill put money on it being one of those.