Off flavor- I want it

[AzOr]

I've been brewing lagers for 5 or 6 years and they turn out great. Very crisp and clean.

However.....
There's a certain something I taste in commercial beers (I don't drink a ton of them) that I do not find in my lagers. I think, but I'm not sure it's a small touch of acetaldehyde. It's a tiny bit of sour on the finish. From what I'e read it should be a green apple taste. Maybe it's that but its not super apple-y.

Either way, how do I get that in my lagers? My main lager yeast strains are; Imperial Global and Harvest, as well as Saflager 34/70. I've never tried a Mexican Cerveza strain, so I'm wondering if that could be it.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Wayne1]

Try WLP840. It is supposedly the Budweiser strain.
Alternatively, WLP1983. Charlie's Fist Bump Yeast. That started as yeast taken from a Bud keg many years ago.

 

[AzOr]

Try WLP840. It is supposedly the Budweiser strain.
Alternatively, WLP1983. Charlie's Fist Bump Yeast. That started as yeast taken from a Bud keg many years ago.

Thanks! My next batch I will try 840, by reading their description, it sounds like what I'm looking for. I also googled Charlie's and White Labs has an interview clip w Papazian. It was very interesting. His books are what got me started years ago. I'll eventually use his yeast just because it's Charlie.

 

[Vale71]

To get acetaldehyde ferment warm under pressure (this increases production) and then do a short conditioning followed by filtration and/or pasteurization to stop reabsorption.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Maybe adding a bit of malic acid would be worth a try if you don't want to filter or pasteurize.

 

[AzOr]

Thanks for responses. I’ll try 840 first.
I don’t want too much acetaldehyde, just a tiny bit.
I’ll report back, although it may be a month or two until I get back to brewing. It’s cider season after all.

 

[couchsending]

So you’re looking for the flavors found in mass produced Macro lager? Is that right?

The green apple in Bud is definitely from the yeast strain. According to Mitch steel they used to have it tested and there would be no acetaldehyde in the beer but you’d still get that green apple ester.

Most macro lager is fermented pretty warm and they use the diacetyl reducing enzyme and all sorts of other process and ingredients that as homebrewers we don’t have access to nor could we really replicate easily. I know Bud is krausened for carbonation which still blows me away.

I’d check the finished pH of the beer you’re trying to replicate (degassed and at room temp) and compare it to your’s. I’d be willing to bet it’s adjusted to a certain spec after fermentation.

 

[AzOr]

So you’re looking for the flavors found in mass produced Macro lager? Is that right?

The green apple in Bud is definitely from the yeast strain. According to Mitch steel they used to have it tested and there would be no acetaldehyde in the beer but you’d still get that green apple ester.

Most macro lager is fermented pretty warm and they use the diacetyl reducing enzyme and all sorts of other process and ingredients that as homebrewers we don’t have access to nor could we really replicate easily. I know Bud is krausened for carbonation which still blows me away.

I’d check the finished pH of the beer you’re trying to replicate (degassed and at room temp) and compare it to your’s. I’d be willing to bet it’s adjusted to a certain spec after fermentation.

It’s been years since I drank Bud, but maybe I’ll try it to see if that’s the profile I’m looking for.

The recent macro-ish lagers I’ve had where I detected a tiny amount of green apple were Peters brand Dutch lager and Weinhards private reserve.

I like to brew session Pilsners and I think adding this slight flavor would be beneficial.

I’m not sure I’d want this in my Czech Pils though.

 

[Bubbles2]

Yeah PH at kegging is really an interesting thing. I've just recently got a new PH meter and have been checking everything and noted that after ferment, I had a blonde finish at 4.5ph which left that tart finish you seem to describe. I pull 2 oz off and use a fleck of potassium Bicarb which is about the same as 2 tsp to 5 gallons. Yet I can try without killing my batch. I brought it to 5 ph and kegged it and am happier with the smoothness opposed to the bite the 4.5 had. Couchsending is on to something as sure as yeast and ferment temp will change the flavor. I know this because I am on 35 batches using the same yeast and noting ferment temps with my 3 fave recipes and the final product. Really the only way to hone a recipe is to keep all variables the same with only one change and repeat to note.

 

[Dland]

Another approach might be to add some flaked corn to mash, around 10%.

 

[couchsending]

Yeah PH at kegging is really an interesting thing. I've just recently got a new PH meter and have been checking everything and noted that after ferment, I had a blonde finish at 4.5ph which left that tart finish you seem to describe. I pull 2 oz off and use a fleck of potassium Bicarb which is about the same as 2 tsp to 5 gallons. Yet I can try without killing my batch. I brought it to 5 ph and kegged it and am happier with the smoothness opposed to the bite the 4.5 had. Couchsending is on to something as sure as yeast and ferment temp will change the flavor. I know this because I am on 35 batches using the same yeast and noting ferment temps with my 3 fave recipes and the final product. Really the only way to hone a recipe is to keep all variables the same with only one change and repeat to note.

You don’t really want beer pH to be much over 4.5 for microbial reasons. Generally only incredibly highly hopped IPAs are over 4.5 when it comes to finished beer pH. There are better ways to “smooth” things out IMHO.

 

[Bubbles2]

You don’t really want beer pH to be much over 4.5 for microbial reasons. Generally only incredibly highly hopped IPAs are over 4.5 when it comes to finished beer pH. There are better ways to “smooth” things out IMHO.

5.3 is about the highest from what I read. Like wine is 3.6

 

[Franktalk]

Fermentis S-189 will give you a subtle apple flavor/aroma if you want a dry option. It's also very easy to use.

 

[Lefou]

Using methods to attain esters with the risk of flaws seems pretty troublesome in my opinion.
Over the years I've drank enough Budweiser to realize their brewing methods might be a major reason for the resultant stabbing pains behind my right eyebrow so I've avoided it. Not so with some of my better homebrews done at moderate temps or the better commercial brews out there. Well-brewed beers generally shouldn't have fusels, flaws, or give you headaches - unless of course, that's what you want. There are things I might tolerate in cider but not beer or mead.

 

[AzOr]

Try WLP840. It is supposedly the Budweiser strain.
Alternatively, WLP1983. Charlie's Fist Bump Yeast. That started as yeast taken from a Bud keg many years ago.

Again thank you for info. I'll give this a shot as soon as I can clear up a fermenter.

I did some poking around and found this...
http://brulosophy.com/2017/10/19/short-shoddy-american-light-lager/

I was reading the comments at bottom of page and they discuss that flavor that I'm going for.

One of my more often brewed beers is a session pilz. This is the base recipe ... although I usually experiment with hop varieties
https://beerandbrewing.com/summer-session-pilsner-czech-pale-lager-recipe/

I think it's delicious but adding some complexity would make it even better.