Off-flavor- hot side oxidation?

[Brobi80]

I made an all-grain double IPA recently that has a pretty potent off-flavor that hits you up front. Hard to describe but kind of dank and musty. I used that new grainfather contraption and I think I may have accidentally caused hot-side oxidation; when using the counter flow wort chiller I didn't think to submerge the wort outflow end under the surface and it was probably introducing O2 as a result of this constant pouring method (yes I realize this was extremely unprofessional of me). It seems there is some controversy as to whether this type of oxidation has a significant impact or not and I was curious if anyone has experienced something similar. I find it hard to explain the flavor and I really don't know what "wet cardboard" tastes like which is frequently mentioned. Plus, it combines with all the hops to make any even more confusing sensation. Earthy, dank, musty words come to mind (clearly unpleasant, definitely not the normal hop flavors). Not sour.

Other relevant:
-recipe was similar to the pliny clone.
-s-05 (2 packs rehydrated) at 64 but did pull from the chamber a little too early. Ended at 72. Thought this was the issue at first but the flavors don't seem fruity. Also used pure O2 before pitching and have since read this is not necessary with dry yeast. Could this be an issue?
-fresh grain smelled good.

As an aside since you may be curious, the Grainfather seems solid if paired with a heat stick. The 1600W internal element is not hot enough in my experience.

 

[Pappers_]

Cold-side oxidation can definitely lead to a stale flavor, which might be related to the musty flavor you are perceiving. I have a hard time getting my mind around hot side oxidation as a concept, because we purposefully introduce oxygen to our wort pre-fermentation. So, I would be looking to other issues.

It might be helpful to share your beers with a credentialed BJCP beer judge or maybe enter it into a competition for the feedback, to see if someone else can describe and define the off-flavor you are perceiving.

 

[m00ps]

I dont believe in hot side aeration. With my IPAs, I whirlpool for over an hour during which my whirlpool arm is designed specifically to aerate the wort continuously. It makes a huge amount of foam. If hot side aeration exists at a homebrew level, id be up to my neck in it

 

[Homercidal]

How new is this beer? I don't find oxidation to be an "up-front" flavor. To me it's more in the aftertaste.

I'm wondering if the beer is just a bit young. That recipe has a LOT of hops, and even though they are meant to be drank fresh, sometimes young beer can be harsh if it's too young.

And I know nothing about the Grainfather, so I have no idea if that thing could impart an off-flavor or not.

 

[cooper]

Plus one on it not being related to HSA. Especially if the beer is still young. Could it be a grassy/vegital flavor from all the hops?

 

[Brobi80]

Thanks for the responses, I am convinced it's not an oxidation issue based on your experiences. Maybe it is related to the hops, they it seems too offensive to just be young beer. I Don't have it in front of me but its been in the keg for about 2 weeks. will let it sit and have someone else have a taste as well. I also dry hopped this beer too early but I thought that would just diminish the hop aromas not make them taste rank.

 

[ElJefeBrews]

How long was your beer at 72 degrees? You pitched at 64 but did you temperature control? If not, then at an ambient temp of 72, your beer would have hit close to 80 and I've found too hot fermentation creates an up-front flavor that's rough. I agree that oxidation is more of an aftertaste and HSA is a myth on a homebrew scale.