Odell 'House' Yeast

[JonBrew]

Hi. I'm just wondering if any of you guys have used the Odell 'house' yeast strain?

I managed to culture some of this yeast from a bottle of their IPA recently and plan to use it in my next brew. I've heard conflicting reports that is possibly the Kolsch yeast or an English strain. However, I'm guessing, either way, Odell will have adapted it somewhat over the years.

Has anybody successfully fermented with this strain? What sort of results have you had? Would you recommend this yeast?

Cheers!

 

[beersk]

Interesting. I've never noticed much yeast, if any, in their beers. I'd guess it's a British strain of some kind. They make some fantastic beers.

 

[stpug]

My best estimation at what strain it most resembles is WLP029. It behaves the most like this strain from any I've tried and read about. I don't get any fruity british character from it, even when warm, so if it's british then it's very neutral. It's probably one of my favorites to use for most styles, however it's a fairly powdery strain that doesn't clarify very well on it's own.

....and watch out for that blowoff!! (best stop cropping strain I've used; a lot of nearly pure yeast can be collected from the krausen).

There's another thread on here about this strain. I'll post a link if I can find it.

 

[JonBrew]

Stpug - thanks. What do you recommend in terms of clearing the beer? Cold crashing?

 

[stpug]

Stpug - thanks. What do you recommend in terms of clearing the beer? Cold crashing?

It really depends on what you're willing to live with. Cold crashing for about a week will leave it a bit hazy, and just some extra time (week/s) in bottles/keg should do the rest. For me, cold crashing is perfectly fine for most beer styles but not a kolsch or alt. If you want it brilliant then some form of fining agent will give it that last push to clear it up. Gelatin works well and will knock most of the haze out in a few days; biofine works really well and will do a notch better than gelatin.

It's an awesome yeast strain - whatever it is - and as long as you're okay with a little haze and prepared for the blowoff then it's really fun to brew with.

 

[JonBrew]

Stpug - thanks. I got my Odell yeast out of the fridge last night to make my yeast starter and when I opened the mason jar and went in for a whiff the first thing that hit me was very strong and unpleasant sulphur/rotten egg smell. I had previously build up my harvested yeast to 1/2 litre starter size.

I know Kolsh yeast can produce this but it is meant to fade after conditioning. My concern is that this jar has been sitting in my fridge for about 2 months so I would have thought any sulphur would have passed by now. On the other hand, after building up to the 1/2 litre, i tightened the lid on the mason jar so is it possible that the sulphur aroma simply hasn’t had the chance to lift off the beer?

anyway, i proceeded with my starter (1 litre) and it appears to have taken off within about 6-8 hours - there's a decent foamy krausen forming.

Any ideas on the sulphur element? My plan is to let the starter ferment out and see if the rancid sulphur smell is still present. If it's still rancid, do you think this yeast is past it?

 

[stpug]

Some yeast strains (Antwerp Ale comes to mind) have a tendency to produce a bit of sulphur that will volatilize out during primary fermentation, and is normal for the strain. I believe that some kolsch strains have this tendency as well. I have never experience any significant sulphur production when using Odell yeast and I'm usually face first in my primary since I scrap the dirt layer and top crop the krausen. Certainly, if it was producing sulphur when it was put in an air-tight container then there was no way for the sulphur to escape and would explain why there was such a big aroma of it. I would pay extra close attention on your next starter step for any aroma of sulphur during fermentation, and decide whether or not to use the yeast in an actual batch. Sometimes, the yeast needs a boost of nutrients and that will help reduce or eliminate the sulphur production. I think it's too late for your current starter to use nutrients, but if you decide to use the yeast in a batch of beer then you could add a little nutrients to the wort.

My one word of caution would be: If the yeast produces an over abundance of sulphur during the starter stage then reconsider using it in a batch of beer. One time I made a starter from a frozen vial and it produced a big sulphur aroma; and I went ahead and used it in a beer - I was not happy with the end result - it was very cloudy/muddy, didn't clear overtime, sulphur notes, and overall not how I had intended. I would have been better off using a dry sachet of Nottingham (or US05).

 

[JonBrew]

In view of the sulphur i had added a pinch of yeast nutrient to my starter wort (albiet i'd do this out of habit anyway).

Thanks for your input - much appreciated! I guess i will just need to monitor the starter as you say and perphaps wise to have a back-up waiting in the wings.

Cheers!

 

[stpug]

In view of the sulphur i had added a pinch of yeast nutrient to my starter wort (albiet i'd do this out of habit anyway).

Thanks for your input - much appreciated! I guess i will just need to monitor the starter as you say and perphaps wise to have a back-up waiting in the wings.

Cheers!

Sounds like a plan to me. Let us know how it all works out. I'd love to hear any feedback on your impressions of Odell yeast. I've been pleasantly surprised with it. I actually have a few beers planned in the short future using this yeast and am looking forward to it (APA, alt, kolsch, and probably another one or two). I tend to brew 3-6 beers in a row with the same yeast strain since it's easy to do once I have a viable refrigerated culture.

Another yeast (blend of 2 strains) I harvested and used was North Coast's PranQster, and it churned out a fantastic golden strong for me. I'm planning another golden strong soon using the same yeast again. I have it in my frozen stock.

One yeast strain (blend of 4 strains) I harvested and tried a couple time - with generally unsuccessful results - was Allagash's White/Wit yeast. The results were just hit/miss: one beer underattenuated by 10+% while the other just lacked any kind of belgian quality. I ended up tossing my frozen stock of this.

 

[JonBrew]

Your adventures in yeast wrangling sound far more advanced than mine! I like the idea of the multiple strains.

So i've been doing some thinking and I believe that, despite my earlier statement, I actually cultured this yeast from a bottle of Odell's 5 Barrel Pale. I think I got confused because I picked up a bottle of their IPA shortly after and really enjoyed it.

With that in my i've done some digging and have seen claims that odell may use as many as 4 yeast strains at there brewery.

My suspicion has been heightened by my starter activity. There is very little sulphur but also nothing that comes close to resembling the big foaming krausen that you refer to Stpug. On the nose I get quite a lot of fruit and some malty sweetness ( not sure if the starter has actually finished but I reckon its close). It smells nice but i'm starting to wonder if what I have is not actually the kolsch variant that is so often associated with odell.

Any thoughts?

 

[stpug]

Your adventures in yeast wrangling sound far more advanced than mine! I like the idea of the multiple strains.

I doubt my adventures are any more advanced than your, but maybe I've done it few more times . I started a frozen stock of yeast about 2 years ago and it has served me well on numerous occasions (and bitten me in the ass once too ).

So i've been doing some thinking and I believe that, despite my earlier statement, I actually cultured this yeast from a bottle of Odell's 5 Barrel Pale. I think I got confused because I picked up a bottle of their IPA shortly after and really enjoyed it.

With that in my i've done some digging and have seen claims that odell may use as many as 4 yeast strains at there brewery.

My suspicion has been heightened by my starter activity. There is very little sulphur but also nothing that comes close to resembling the big foaming krausen that you refer to Stpug. On the nose I get quite a lot of fruit and some malty sweetness ( not sure if the starter has actually finished but I reckon its close). It smells nice but i'm starting to wonder if what I have is not actually the kolsch variant that is so often associated with odell.

Any thoughts?

That's a very intriguing idea about them potentially using a few strains of yeast and certainly plausible. Their 5 Barrel Pale struck me as a noble-hopped pale ale which would make sense that they could use an british yeast strain in it.

My Odell yeast came from a bottle of Myrcenary IIPA a couple years ago - so different sources to be sure. As far as my experience goes with my culture, it hasn't mattered what temperature, aeration level, or vessel I put it in - the krausen becomes ridiculously big and yeasty.

I would say that if your culture doesn't develop a really big krausen then you may be correct that they use multiple cultures, or that we, at least, have different cultures. Keep us posted on how you use your Odell yeast and what pans out.

 

[bierhaus15]

Toured their brewery last year and they were using a Kolsch yeast for almost all of their ales.

 

[JonBrew]

Well I believe my starter is finished and I am now almost 100% convinced that I'm dealing with an entirely different beast in this yeast.

The yeast has dropped out hard and left quite a clear wort. It smells overall good, slightly fruity but ever so slightly funky (which is concerning me a little).

I've put it in the fridge to let it properly settle out before it check the gravity of the starter wort. Hopefully it will have attenuated properly!

In any event, I think between the distinct lack of the big krausen and the fact that the yeast has dropped out of suspension very well, I have a different yeast here - possibly an English style variant like 002 or 005. Will be interesting to see what the attenuation is!

Watch this space...

 

[JonBrew]

So that's the starter done for sure, whatever yeast this is it got it down from 1040 to 1010 so 75% apparent attenuation.

The resultant beer is clear and very very clean. No esters that I can detect. Seems to have left it slightly sweet.

The yeast itself is looking and smelling good, again just quite a clean yeast aroma.

I have no idea now if it's the kolsch or an English strain but whatever it is it's looking good. Will be brewing soon and will update after initial tasting.

 

[stpug]

Sweet! Keep us posted.

 

[JonBrew]

OK, so here's a bit of an update.

I brewed yesterday - recipe was for a half batch (approx 12 litres:

2kg pilsner
1kg Munich
1kg Vienna
.400kg cara pils
.100kg special B

Kazbek hops 5.3 AA
50g @ 60
15 @ 10
35 @ flame out

Brew went well. Starting gravity of 1063. I pitched the Odell strain straight out of the mason jar with no starter. It took off like a rocket - fermentation with a few hours. Only problem is, I don't have means of controlling temperature and it's been warmer here than I had hoped recently so temp got up as high as 24 degrees C fir a good hour maybe two. I moved the fermenter toa cooler area and it has gradually cooled to 19 degrees over the course of a few hours.

Fermentation shows signs of slowing down. I hope the temp drop hasnt knocked my yeast out!

I'm concerned about this and that the early period of high temp will result in off flavours / hot alcohol. Any ideas?

Cheers ��

 

[JonBrew]

OK, so after 4 days I've taken a gravity reading as its sitting at 1022 down from 1063. It's way too sweet as it is so hoping I can get the gravity down a bit more by raising the temperature a little. If I can get the beer down to at least 1016/17 i'd be fairly happy. Will report back in due course.

 

[JonBrew]

OK, so 8 days from pitching yeast the gravity has dropped a good bit more down to 1012. So thats from 1063 which I believe is attenuation of 81%.

The beer is actually quite cloudy so i'm thinking the yeast hasn't dropped out as well as I thought it would (like the starter did). I think cold crashing might help but I dont have tangible means to do so sadly.

Aroma wise i'm struggling to place this. There's quite a lot of malt coming through which is in line with my recipe. There's also a spicy but slightly fruity aroma. I cant tell if the yeast is attributable to any of the above. A kolsch strain I expect would be neutral whereas an English strain i'd be expecting a bit of fruit.

Taste wise it's pretty promising. Malty but also bitter finish which is what I was after. Interestingly enough, a few years ago I was in Cologne and I drank a lot of kolsch. I really enjoyed the taste but I thought it in some ways reminded me if Tennents lager (i'm in Scotland by the way) but a lot nicer. I get this exact same quality in this beer - perhaps, if it is the kolsch strain, this character is coming from the yeast.

I'm looking forward to tasting thid beer a month after bottling and i'll report back then with my final thoughts.

I'd be delighted to hear from anyone else who has cultured and used the yeast from Odell's 5 Barrel Pale ale to see how your experience compares with mine.

Cheers!

 

[JonBrew]

OK, so after two weeks in the bottle, but a long primary, i've had a taste of this beer.

First of all the thing you get the most is caramel - flavour primarily but also some in the aroma. I only used 100g of special B in an 12L batch but it comes through very strong. There is however a decent chunk of cara pils in there too which will no doubt be helping with this.

Hop aroma is medium to low, floral and slightly spicy. If i'm honest I dont think the malt and hops in this beer marry particularly well. However, it is still quite a nice beer, somewhat like a maibock, and it's early days yet.

As for the yeast, it's very clean and I struggle to pick out any flavour or aroma imparted. I would maybe say that if anything it has accentuated malt over hops which is more like an English strain characteristic but who knows?

In any event, overall I like how this yeast has performed. I've harvested again and would use where neutral styles are required in future. In hindsight I should have tested this yeast on a much simpler recipe to try to better see its character so this is most likely what i'll do next time around.

 

[stpug]

Thanks for posting back your results and tasting notes. You impressions of a very clean yeast strain is similar to mine with the strain I harvested. Mine develops a ridiculously HUGE krausen whereas your said that yours didn't so I don't think they must be the same, but the rest of the characteristics from the yeast seems very similar. Perhaps Odell is experimenting with new lower krausen (less top fermenting) yeast to find something that doesn't require the fermenter headspace or topcropping effort. Regardless, I'll be pulling a vial of my Odell yeast out of frozen storage in a month or two and will post back any useful information (hopefully I can capture a picture of the krausen prior to cropping).

 

[JonBrew]

Sounds good, I look forward to hearing how that turns out.

I suppose it's possible that they started with a kolsch strain but it's been mutated for the different beers - both IPA and 5 Barrel Pale. I guess we'll never know but it's still fun experimenting with these commercial yeasts!

When I use the strain again i'll be sure to update this thread.

Cheers