I am thinking about brewing an AIH octoberfest / marzen brew kit. it recomends white labs820 octoberfest/marzen lager yeast. Do i or should i use a starter or could i pitch an extra vial of the lager yeast? I never did a starter before not sure what brand and how much DME to use. I was thinking about fermenting in my fridge i took a internal temp of 45 degrees in the fridge with two cases of water and other items in. Thinking that should be cold enough for lager fermenting. Or would i do just as good using wyeast 1007 german ale yeast without a starter. Thanks for every ones input.
octoberfest brew
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Sourz4life
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I'd pitch 3 vials if your going the vial route. I usually step up my starter for lager yeasts to a 1 gallon starter(decant off of course), this is for 5 gallon batches. With lagers its best to start with a higher cell count then normal.
You could probably do either the extra vial or a starter. I'd recommend a starter. Any major brand of DME should work fine.
Do you have a way of better controlling your fridge than the built-in method? I don't know that specific yeasts' ideal temp range, but 45F is on the lower end. I think most lager yeasts are rated for 48F-54F. After primary fermentation is complete you should transfer to a carboy and drop that temp to just above freezing if you can.
This video should help with your starter. Yeah, it was made by a chain homebrew supply that is trying to sell you stuff, but the info is good:
You'll have to ignore the stuff about the smackpack.
Do you have a way of better controlling your fridge than the built-in method? I don't know that specific yeasts' ideal temp range, but 45F is on the lower end. I think most lager yeasts are rated for 48F-54F. After primary fermentation is complete you should transfer to a carboy and drop that temp to just above freezing if you can.
This video should help with your starter. Yeah, it was made by a chain homebrew supply that is trying to sell you stuff, but the info is good:
You'll have to ignore the stuff about the smackpack.
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WLP820 is a horrible yeast that should not be sold.
I love your idea of using Wyeast 1007, that's one of my favorite yeasts. Also would have excellent results with WLP833 or Wyeast 2206, those are more favorites. The dry W-34/70 will also make a great lager and you can skip making a starter if you don't want, just use 2 packs and call it good.
I love your idea of using Wyeast 1007, that's one of my favorite yeasts. Also would have excellent results with WLP833 or Wyeast 2206, those are more favorites. The dry W-34/70 will also make a great lager and you can skip making a starter if you don't want, just use 2 packs and call it good.
lagers often require almost double the cell count of the ales. So definitely need a large starter or multiple vials.
Care to elaborate on the WLP820 for those of us who don't have firsthand experience with it?
1007 is pretty good, I've made a decent Kolsch-ish brew using that. You'll have to keep the temps right around 60F, and style nerds will complain that you brewed a lager with an ale strain. Figured I'd warn you in case you decide to share some with one.
The other yeasts you mentioned look good for this. Part of me wants to say that the saflager isn't a good choice for this, but I've brewed some beers resembling bock using that strain and it turned out pretty well.
Wyeast 2124 is also a decent option.
It has a long lag time and poor attenuation. You can do better with pretty much any other lager yeast. However the flavors are okay.
Caution: If you used additional enzymes, the fermentation will keep going and going and going like the Energizer bunny. Drink the stuff as young as you can if you don't want the gravity to fall all the way down to like 1.002.
Sourz4life
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I've never had an issue with WLP820. Have an Oktoberfest fermenting out with it right now. I oxygenate to 11 ppm and lager at 49.
Im not overly concerned about that for 2 reasons. First, its WLP820 we are talking about. Ive yet to read any posts about that yeast over performing. Second, I am checking the gravity every three to four days. If it hits target FG, then I will cold crash and keg which will shut down fermentation.
It's not the yeast that would overperform, it's the enzymes that would enable the yeast to keep eating forever. That's good that you're kegging. When I've done this in the past and bottled it, I got gushers. As long as you keep it cold and drink it within a reasonable time, this won't be as big a problem for you.
Noted. I will keep a sharp eye on this beer. I roused the yeast again a couple hours ago just for good measure. With any luck I will be at 1.015 by Saturday afternoon. If so, I will crash and put the little 820 underachievers to sleep, then hit them with gelatin just to make sure they lay down, then keg and carb.
The question is: Should I harvest, wash and re-pitch this yeast? I read that WLP820 becomes pretty good after the first generation. Or, just chuck it and make another lager with 34/70 and harvest that? I have had nothing but great results from 34/70.
Ready...........Go!
I didn't get any better results from repitches with this yeast; it still lags and underattenuates. Just use a different yeast like W-34/70 and start over.
Ok so I previously wrote this frustrated post about how my follow-up gravity check showed that the beer is still sitting at 1.018 after enzyme, raising temp and rousing yeast daily for a week. So I figured I would just crash the beer and hope for the best. Then, right before I taste the gravity sample I decided to give the hydrometer a good spin. I didn't really spin it before taking this follow-up reading. It settles down and is now reading 1.010! Im cold crashing as I write this. Looks like the enzyme technique works?
Oh yeah.... it works... all the way down to nothing. Now drink it up before it turns into a thin hot mess.
applescrap
Be the ball!
Imo pitch 34/70 dry and ferment at ale temps. You never know until you try. Just a thought please no debate here, its only a suggestion.
Its sitting at 35 degrees, Im hoping the yeasts have gone dormant.
Yeah, so I cold crashed, racked to the keg and let it sit cold for about 24 hours, hit it with gelatin and here it is. It tastes true to style. I think if you pay attention to the enzyme it can be a real benefit. But you cannot simply pitch it and forget it.
I know this thread has been dormant for a while but I just wanted to add an update in reference to using amylase enzyme to restart a stuck fermentation. I have used this technique twice now and I have had success both times. My last use was in a sweet stout that stalled and I managed to get it down an additional 6 gravity points. However, both finished batches suffered from the same problem, head retention.
I keg my beers so I am force carbonating. Both beers poured with a good head of foam but the foam would dissipate in less than a minute. This was a consistent problem regardless of the type of glass or how it was cleaned. I am aware that residue from dish detergent can have a detrimental affect to head retention. However, the problem was present even with the glasses that were cleaned with hot water and starsan.
Maybe it has been covered elsewhere and my discovery is nothing new? But, I just wanted to throw it out there for those who are thinking of using this technique.
I keg my beers so I am force carbonating. Both beers poured with a good head of foam but the foam would dissipate in less than a minute. This was a consistent problem regardless of the type of glass or how it was cleaned. I am aware that residue from dish detergent can have a detrimental affect to head retention. However, the problem was present even with the glasses that were cleaned with hot water and starsan.
Maybe it has been covered elsewhere and my discovery is nothing new? But, I just wanted to throw it out there for those who are thinking of using this technique.
I'm glad the beers turned out good except for the head thing. I can't say I recall what the enzymes do to head if anything. But also wouldn't be real surprised if it is having this effect, since the function of enzymes are to break things down, which possibly could include foam compounds. I'm honestly not sure.
Cheers.
Cheers.
