Nottingham Yeast

[rayg]

****** I HAD IT DRILLED INTO MY HEAD BY THIS BOARD THAT IT IS PERFECTLY NORMAL TO NOT SEE FERMENTATION FOR 72 HOURS. ******

It IS perfectly normal when using dry yeast. Just not GOOD!

Ray

 

[goose1873]

It IS perfectly normal when using dry yeast. Just not GOOD!

Ray

It is not normal. I have brewed 40-50 batches with dry yeast and it happened once...and that was with garbage notty yeast.

 

[jjones17]

if use use good yeast i.e. safale it will always work. always.

Yes, Safale has never failed to work by just pitching direction onto the wort for me too. Only 1 problem: Safale yeast makes my beer taste terrible. All except US-05 of course.

 

[jfr1111]

24 hours after pitching Notty, I have no krausen, no airlock activity not even a single bubble on top of wort. I can see clearly that the yeast all fell-out of suspension and are chilling (or dead) at the bottom of the carboy. I took the discarded package and tried to rehydrate (once again) and it still is flat at the bottom. Serves me for proofing and still pitching yeast that hadn't foamed.

I do have a package of S-05 in the fridge. This beer has until after the Habs game to do something or the Safale gets pitched in. Seeing as I overshot my gravity by almost 20 points and I will be using a yeast that has nothing to do with the style (English Mild) I'll reserve my judgement and enjoyment of the recipe until I brew a new batch.

I also have the "bad" lot number and the 12/2111 exp. date.

 

[Hannable1975]

Crap. Wish I had seen this hours ago - just brewed today - and when I "proofed" the yeast - nothing. I figured it was just too cool - and pitched anyway.

How long should I give it beo=fore pitching the emergency sachet of US05 I keep on hand - or could I just go ahead and bite the bullet and pitch it - should the Nottingham be ok, just slow - will the two be OK together?

 

[DannyG]

So I was at my LHBS today, and was told that Danstar recently recalled all the store's Notty. This was the same store at which I had bought a sachet of Notty from this lot about a month ago (which worked just fine for me). Has anyone else heard about this?

 

[PorterIdontknowher]

Crap. Wish I had seen this hours ago - just brewed today - and when I "proofed" the yeast - nothing. I figured it was just too cool - and pitched anyway.

How long should I give it beo=fore pitching the emergency sachet of US05 I keep on hand - or could I just go ahead and bite the bullet and pitch it - should the Nottingham be ok, just slow - will the two be OK together?

Well... at my LHBS it is 2.75 for a sachet of US-05... knowing that nothing happened when you rehydrated the Nottingham, is it worth $3 to save the 3+ hours of work you have invested already? (Plus the value of the ingredients.)

Based on the poor rehydration, at a minimum, I'd consider pitching at the 18 hour mark if you don't see anything. (Yes, it can take up to 72 hours... blah blah blah... but given the already suspect yeast...)

Of course if it turns out to be the best beer you've ever made... to recreate it you'll need to pitch a crappy, recalled packet of Nottingham that doesn't proof, and then wait 18 hours to pitch US-05...

 

[trubled]

Crap. Wish I had seen this hours ago - just brewed today - and when I "proofed" the yeast - nothing. I figured it was just too cool - and pitched anyway.

How long should I give it beo=fore pitching the emergency sachet of US05 I keep on hand - or could I just go ahead and bite the bullet and pitch it - should the Nottingham be ok, just slow - will the two be OK together?

Pitch with emergency yeast immediately before the infected Notty yeast has time to establish.

 

[jfr1111]

The Notty probably isn't "infected" as much as "dead", but if the yeast didn't proof, you probably have your answer as to when to pitch: as soon as possible so other bugs don't take over. The problem might also be with their emulsifier or whatever they use to "foam" the yeast. Mine just stayed in whole intact pellets.

As for my English Mild, it is not looking good. When I repitched, the wort had a yeasty, spicy, farmhouse smell, not unlike unwashed sweaty balls after a marathon or the dreaded "Satan's anus". The thing was fabulous smelling yesterday when I brewed - gf even commented on it and thought I had baked a cake. I know that fermentation can give some off smells, but it hasn't been fermenting yet...

Well, not many things I can do except wait it out. The new yeast seems to be starting to ferment though, so I have hope. At least my other batch wich is very near bottling time smells awesome.

 

[trubled]

The Notty probably isn't "infected" as much as "dead", but if the yeast didn't proof, you probably have your answer as to when to pitch: as soon as possible so other bugs don't take over. The problem might also be with their emulsifier or whatever they use to "foam" the yeast. Mine just stayed in whole intact pellets.

I believe the package itself may be contaminated because:

(a) my 4 infected carboys over a 2 week period all had the same issue which in some cases started within 12 hours of pitching
(b) others have reported similar unsavory qualities with their bad notty ferments

I would like to hear if people had the same unique off-flavours in which case the contamination may have something to do with the packet as opposed to endemically induced infections.

 

[trubled]

From Lallemands website on Nottingham

http://www.danstaryeast.com/sites/default/files/nottingham_ale_yeast.pdf

Classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae.
-- A top fermenting yeast.
-- The typical analysis of the active dried strain:
-- Percent solids 93%–95%
-- Living yeast cells 􀀪 5 x 109 per gram of dry yeast
-- Wild yeast < 1 per 106 yeast cells (Lysine method)*
-- Bacteria < 1 per 106 yeast cells*

Finished product is released to the market only after passing a rigorous series of tests.
*According to ASBC and EBC methods of analysis.

It is possible that their assertion about wild yeast and their conclusions of rigorous series of tests are inaccurate.

 

[jfr1111]

I'd be curious too about what others are experiencing as far as off flavours. I will probably taste tomorrow if there's no krausen to determine if the batch is sour or vinegary. It sure smelled like it after only 24 hours... I probably won't bottle and risk infecting all my tubing and plastic equipment if it is that bad.

The S-05 hasn't really took off yet either: wimpy bubbles and no froth or kausen, even though I ramped the temperature to 20 Celcius in the brew room and threw a blanket on my carboy.

 

[goose1873]

pist......stop using notty yeast. its garbage...

 

[trubled]

I'd be curious too about what others are experiencing as far as off flavours. I will probably taste tomorrow if there's no krausen to determine if the batch is sour or vinegary. It sure smelled like it after only 24 hours... I probably won't bottle and risk infecting all my tubing and plastic equipment if it is that bad.

The S-05 hasn't really took off yet either: wimpy bubbles and no froth or kausen, even though I ramped the temperature to 20 Celcius in the brew room and threw a blanket on my carboy.

I have never smelled anything like it.
None of these are spot on (except for maybe the band aid) but here is how I would describe the infection.

medicinal
band-aid
sour
sulferous
plastic
rubbery

Even after 12 hours I was getting inklings of this developing.

 

[jfr1111]

Tasted the wort: taste is the same as when yeast was pitched but there IS some kind of farmhouse, spicy aroma in the carboy and in the beer. I'm guessing that it sulfur or something like it, plus a lot of yeast smell. I did repitch so that is a given. OG hasn't budged, wich is worrying, but at least it probably isn't infected (yet).

No vinegar or sourness, altough this doesn't mean our good friends Lacto and Acetobacter aren't at work anyway. Way too soon to pass judgement, but I didn't have band-aids, plastic or rubber taste. Will probably rack to secondary as soon as fermentation stops (if it ever comes online) so the beer doesn't sit on the dead Notty needlessly.

 

[trubled]

did you repitch with same suspect Notty?

Hope things go well, keep us posted.

 

[jfr1111]

US-05. No krausen, but regular airlock activity (2-3 bubbles a minute) and visible activity at the top of the wort. The other brew wich is nearing bottlingtime was pitched with S-33 and I didn't get any krausen before 2 days in if my notes are correct and it tastes fine, so I'm not over worried.

I'm thinking about stocking S-04, US-05 and S-33 and maybe washing a good all around liquid yeast once I know my process is good.

 

[Hannable1975]

OK - Mine did take off - somewhere within the 24 hour span ( I was out so do not know when it strted showing airock activity ) but the airlock has a good to very active bubbling action.

However, I'm thinking I may not use the Nottingham in the future, until all these other issues seem to lesson. I keep some US 05 in the freezer, and just bottled my first recipe ( had US 05 as the yeast ) - and I'd rather stick with what I know works over what I hope works.

 

[jfr1111]

Good on you. Altough I can't be sure if it is the US-05 that is now forming a mini krausen or if it is the Notty, I will spring the 2$ more for something that isn't shrouded in controversy like Notty is right now. The pellets are still sitting, idle at the bottom of the carboy, so I'm guessing that the Safale came to the rescue.

I might give it another chance on a small 3 gallon batch and just cultivate the yeast from the cake if it does take off.

 

[akthor]

I made a batch of brandon o's graff 36hrs ago. I still don't have activity in my airlock whcih is weird for me I haven't had a beer or Apfelwein that didn't start within 12 hrs of pitching. Fermenter temp is about 62F I am wondering if that is too cool for Graff or should I just wait longer?

I used:
Nottinham Yeast
.5 lbs of Crystal 120L
4 Gallons of apple juice.
1 gallon of water
2 lbs of DME
0.5 oz of hops

I don't know what the date was on the yeast but I guess I could have some of the bad stuff? What to do?

 

[jfr1111]

If there's no activity in the airlock, is there some in the bucket (I assume you're using a bucket since you go by airlock) ? Maybe try to fish out your packet from the trash and if it is from the bad lot batch, repitch using US-05. Or wait some more.

I know that many regard the 72 hours speech as gossip, but when everyone and their mother has a problem with a specific batch of yeast, there's so much preaching that can go on. Personally, I'd repitch since it's Notty, but I would wait if it were any other yeast.

Mabe try upping the temp to check if it does anything.

 

[Rover]

I have never smelled anything like it.
None of these are spot on (except for maybe the band aid) but here is how I would describe the infection.

medicinal
band-aid
sour
sulferous
plastic
rubbery

Even after 12 hours I was getting inklings of this developing.

In all honesty, I think you're describing an infection or a batch that has been fermented at temps that are too high, which has nothing to do with the yeast pack.

I've had two batches of this Notty batch that was bad. It took 72 hours to take off with a well oxygenated wort. The off flavors that were associated with the batch were yeasty. That flavor dissipated over time. The last batch was consumed at one month of conditioning and was off for the two weeks that it took to drink. The other batch (BM's Centennial Blond) that I brewed with this bad lot, only took about five weeks+ to loose the flavor.

None of the flavors could be described as:
"medicinal
band-aid
sour
sulferous
plastic
rubbery"

 

[akthor]

I will wait till th morning if there is still no activity I will bring the bucket upstairs and see if warmer temps do anything. If after being upstairs for 24hrs I still got nothing happening I will repitch with some US-05.

 

[trubled]

In all honesty, I think you're describing an infection or a batch that has been fermented at temps that are too high, which has nothing to do with the yeast pack.

I've had two batches of this Notty batch that was bad. It took 72 hours to take off with a well oxygenated wort. The off flavors that were associated with the batch were yeasty. That flavor dissipated over time. The last batch was consumed at one month of conditioning and was off for the two weeks that it took to drink. The other batch (BM's Centennial Blond) that I brewed with this bad lot, only took about five weeks+ to loose the flavor.

None of the flavors could be described as:
"medicinal
band-aid
sour
sulferous
plastic
rubbery"

Fermentation temps were good and there doesnt seem to be a lot of people reporting the same off flavours so the source of the problem probably inst the packet. These off flavours are consistent with pernicious brett. So it is looking more likely that a struggling ferment got infected by brett early on allowing the yeast an opportunity to build a huge population in our brew space (which was seeing a fair bit of activity and in various stages) and despite sanitation measures still exists. It is possible/likely that since the initial infection every subsequent ferment that has been slow to take off has been infected by this ambient population.

 

[Rover]

Fermentation temps were good and there doesnt seem to be a lot of people reporting the same off flavours so the source of the problem probably inst the packet. These off flavours are consistent with pernicious brett. So it is looking more likely that a struggling ferment got infected by brett early on allowing the yeast an opportunity to build a huge population in our brew space (which was seeing a fair bit of activity and in various stages) and despite sanitation measures still exists. It is possible/likely that since the initial infection every subsequent ferment that has been slow to take off has been infected by this ambient population.

You're probably right,

That was the biggest risk with this long lag time, If nothing gets in during the long lag, than the off flavors seem to condition out. If some nasty has the opportunity to get a hold before the weak yeast, than....I don't even want to think about it

 

[SteveM]

Just in passing - I was in my LHBS today and was advised while I was browsing the yeasts that there was no Nottingham to be had, that it had all be recalled.

 

[camiller]

Just in passing - I was in my LHBS today and was advised while I was browsing the yeasts that there was no Nottingham to be had, that it had all be recalled.

I'll confirm that. I work part time at my LHBS and we received a letter from one of our wholesalers that informed us that Nottingham lot 1080961099V was being recalled. Oddly we haven't yet received anything from the two other wholesalers we use, which means that not every LHBS me be aware of this yet.

 

[Hannable1975]

I'll confirm that. I work part time at my LHBS and we received a letter from one of our wholesalers that informed us that Nottingham lot 1080961099V was being recalled. Oddly we haven't yet received anything from the two other wholesalers we use, which means that not every LHBS me be aware of this yet.

I just left a LHBS in a town I am working in, and while I was there bought two extract lits. The owner MADE A POINT to let me know that one of them had once contained Nottingham, but that after a recall, HE REMOVED ALL the Notty from his kits AND store - regardless of lot number. He said it was the least he could do - he had been brewing for years, and did not want to risk anyone else, especially someone new to brewing, getting a bad batch.

BTW: He said the replaced all the Notty with US-05. Where I am thats a $2.75 sachet in place of a $0.99 one. Awesome gesture.

Won hella respect from me - I'll drop in on this guy whenever I am in town. :rockin:

 

[wildwest450]

Violent and vigorous fermentation within 24 hours of rehydrating and pitching.

Something does not add up.

 

[akthor]

Some notty from the bad batch works fine some are slow and some don't work at all it seems.