I just brewed a porter this morning and only got my wort down to 79 degrees before pitching a packet of rehydrated Nottingham yeast. I had to go to work and didn't have time to wait or keep chilling. It is now sitting in my basement which is between 62 and 64 degrees with a big ice pack up against it. That was about 5 hours ago and it is now down to 75. Do I have enough time for the wort to cool before the yeast starts working(recommended temps are 57 - 70)? I have never used Nottingham before so I am not familiar with it.
Nottingham lag time?
- Thread starter BWN
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mrduna01
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That's a really high pitching temp. I would never be concerned about leaving it with the ice pack and cool room with lid in tact until I got home from work and pitching then when the temps down a bit. Either way your yeast should be fine at this point but it's gonna be best to get below 70 as quick as possible. Drop the fermenter in a tub of cold water with a little ice. It will go down pretty quick.
I have never had notty or any yeast for that matter take more than 12 to 18 hours to get going. Usually with Notty it's within 6 hours.
I have never had notty or any yeast for that matter take more than 12 to 18 hours to get going. Usually with Notty it's within 6 hours.
mrduna01
Well-Known Member
BWN said:
If you put it on some cold water as I was saying (which is is how I control the temp on every batch) soon you will be fine. Your doing the right things now and did what you could before you had to run. I wouldn't worry too much. May end up being the best beer you've ever had. But again, if you had it down to 80 which is 90 percent there, leaving it for 10 hours or so before pitching yeast assuming you sanitized very carefully shouldn't create any problems IMO.
I guess I learn something everytime I brew. I also learned I need a pre chiller. I am making one before my next brew. I also plan on making a bigger chiller at some point, I only have a 25' 3/8" I think I need 50' of 1/2".
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For future use, just work on getting it down before you pitch. If it means you let it sit a few extra hours, that's (IMHO) better than pitching hot.
Notty should have a pretty short lag time pitching at that temp. But as was pointed out, the yeast are working right now -- and the propagation phase is when a lot of the off flavors can be generated. Luckily with dry yeast, you should have a pretty solid cell count, so hopefully that won't be as big of an issue.
Notty should have a pretty short lag time pitching at that temp. But as was pointed out, the yeast are working right now -- and the propagation phase is when a lot of the off flavors can be generated. Luckily with dry yeast, you should have a pretty solid cell count, so hopefully that won't be as big of an issue.
DEWSBREW
Well-Known Member
I am using notty right now and my ambient temp is 50--pitched at 60. it took about a day to get going but 5 days later still bubbling.
Notty can handle some really low temps. I was nervous about fermenting this low but there are a few threads that say you can ferment this low for a really clean beer. I wont know for a couple more weeks but my hopes are high for a great beer. I swear its torture not knowing the end results .
Notty can handle some really low temps. I was nervous about fermenting this low but there are a few threads that say you can ferment this low for a really clean beer. I wont know for a couple more weeks but my hopes are high for a great beer. I swear its torture not knowing the end results .
Lately I have been pitching a lot of dry yeast directly into 80-90 degree wort, without rehydrating. It has shortened the lag time considerable (I think--hard to be sure about these things based on a few batches).
Here's my rationale:
1. My well water is warm. The old immersion chiller pretty much quits at 85, but that is well under the temp limit for my better bottles.
2. I hate re-hydrating yeast. It seems like a big chance for infection to me, and it is a pain. Plus half the old timers on this forum never do it at all.
3. The yeast companies' instructions for re-hydrating specify the use of really warm water or wort, followed by pitching the warm slurry into your cool batch. So the sudden temperature drop must not stun the little critters much at all--and in my wort, the temp falls much more gradually from 85 down to 65 (or whatever).
4. Right after siphoning the 85-deg wort into my better bottles, and right before sprinkling the yeast, the fermenters go into a circulating water fermentation chiller. There are a few threads around about these things. It is complex and home-made, but it's what you do if you have no room for another chest freezer. I can control the temp of the fermenting beer to within a degree F or so, and the temp drops from 85 to 65 (or whatever) pretty fast, and without overshooting, thanks to the superior heat-transfer characteristics of circulating water. I would rather have a freezer for simplicity, but I have no more room.
It works for me. As long as you can get the beer down to fermentation temp in 4 or 5 hours, i think pitching warm is just fine for most yeast--if you pitch enough. It may even make rehydrating unnecessary.
Here's my rationale:
1. My well water is warm. The old immersion chiller pretty much quits at 85, but that is well under the temp limit for my better bottles.
2. I hate re-hydrating yeast. It seems like a big chance for infection to me, and it is a pain. Plus half the old timers on this forum never do it at all.
3. The yeast companies' instructions for re-hydrating specify the use of really warm water or wort, followed by pitching the warm slurry into your cool batch. So the sudden temperature drop must not stun the little critters much at all--and in my wort, the temp falls much more gradually from 85 down to 65 (or whatever).
4. Right after siphoning the 85-deg wort into my better bottles, and right before sprinkling the yeast, the fermenters go into a circulating water fermentation chiller. There are a few threads around about these things. It is complex and home-made, but it's what you do if you have no room for another chest freezer. I can control the temp of the fermenting beer to within a degree F or so, and the temp drops from 85 to 65 (or whatever) pretty fast, and without overshooting, thanks to the superior heat-transfer characteristics of circulating water. I would rather have a freezer for simplicity, but I have no more room.
It works for me. As long as you can get the beer down to fermentation temp in 4 or 5 hours, i think pitching warm is just fine for most yeast--if you pitch enough. It may even make rehydrating unnecessary.
ArcaneXor
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Corncob,
I can see how that works, but you really want to make sure that you get the beer down to fermentation temperature within four hours or so. Much longer than that, and you risk off-flavors from the yeast propagating at high temps. Personally, I hold off on pitching the yeast until the wort is chilled. Lag time might be longer, but I don't have to worry about the yeast doing anything weird that way.
I can see how that works, but you really want to make sure that you get the beer down to fermentation temperature within four hours or so. Much longer than that, and you risk off-flavors from the yeast propagating at high temps. Personally, I hold off on pitching the yeast until the wort is chilled. Lag time might be longer, but I don't have to worry about the yeast doing anything weird that way.
I wouldn't try it without the chiller, either. I have been using US-05, and so far have not seen any yeast-derived flavors as a result from pitching the dry yeast warm. I haven't taken any direct wort temperature measurements, but I bet my temps drop that last 20 degrees in only an hour or two, based on my experience.
Fat_Bastard
Well-Known Member
I use notty ALOT,usually I have quick starts with it (under 12 hours).I rehydrate and pitch at under 70 degrees.
lately, the current lot of notty has been taking 24 to 36 hours to get going.also when rehydrating this lot, it all sinks the bottom like a stone.normally most of it floats and I have to stir it in after 15 minutes.
I'm thinking this lot is a bit sluggish compared to others
lately, the current lot of notty has been taking 24 to 36 hours to get going.also when rehydrating this lot, it all sinks the bottom like a stone.normally most of it floats and I have to stir it in after 15 minutes.
I'm thinking this lot is a bit sluggish compared to others
heeler
Well-Known Member
I see you cats are useing S-05 and talking high temps but I'm curious as to the negitive effects of colder or should I say cooler temps like 57F. I keep getting a grapefruit like taste to all my brews, and to be truthfull its really startin to piss me off cause I cant figger it out. Is it the lower temps in the growth phase of the yeast?? I have the cooler/fermenter-chiller and its kinda tough to keep the exact temps you want.
I had like 6 packs of it so when its gone i'm goin with Notty for a while. Do yall think the cooler temps are the culprit??????
I had like 6 packs of it so when its gone i'm goin with Notty for a while. Do yall think the cooler temps are the culprit??????
greatschmaltez
Well-Known Member
BWN, consider getting a recirculation pump system to recirculate ice water instead of doing the pre chiller. I got a little fountain pump at lowes that puts up 9 ft of head and it get my wort down super cold in 30 minutes recirculating ice water.
Notty and other yeasts have taken about 24 hours to get rolling for me if pitched at cooler 62ish temps. That being said, I wouldn't ferment notty above 62 or so if you are trying to avoid fruitiness. Honestly I'd try to stay below 60.
I can't speak for US-05 though, never used it.
Notty and other yeasts have taken about 24 hours to get rolling for me if pitched at cooler 62ish temps. That being said, I wouldn't ferment notty above 62 or so if you are trying to avoid fruitiness. Honestly I'd try to stay below 60.
I can't speak for US-05 though, never used it.
DEWSBREW
Well-Known Member
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Imo Notty has changed since the re-package, I ferment around 62-65 with all my ale's and w/ S-05 and all is well, clean and crisp, but I have started to use a bit of Honey Malt in my IPA's as without it the ales seemed thin. The addition of the Honey Malt really picks up the mouthfeel. Then again I BIAB and take no readings what-so ever!!! Its still very good beer and and I enjoy what I make and somehow get buzzed of of a couple so I'm happy (now flame me for being LAZY and not folllowing protocol)
LOL
This is not advocated by dry yeast makers - they recommend incrementally adding small amounts of your wort to the rehydrated yeast specifically to avoid temperature shock. Once the rehydrated yeast is within a few degrees of your batch temperature the yeast is pitched.
I have seen that in the Danstar instructions, but is it in the Fermentis instructions as well?
Also, the last couple of batches I pitched without rehydrating had some trouble clearing. It sure seemed like I had plenty of cells the way it took off, and it fermented strong and steady. But it took a week for the gravity to get down to where it was headed (it made it both times) then didn't completely clear for 4 or 5 weeks. It did drop a really hard yeast cake, though.
I can't say for sure what was going on there, especially since I am used to fast, high-floccing English yeast. Maybe pitching without rehydrating was reducing my cell-counts. Maybe I am too impatient to use S-05.
Also, the last couple of batches I pitched without rehydrating had some trouble clearing. It sure seemed like I had plenty of cells the way it took off, and it fermented strong and steady. But it took a week for the gravity to get down to where it was headed (it made it both times) then didn't completely clear for 4 or 5 weeks. It did drop a really hard yeast cake, though.
I can't say for sure what was going on there, especially since I am used to fast, high-floccing English yeast. Maybe pitching without rehydrating was reducing my cell-counts. Maybe I am too impatient to use S-05.
After plenty of non-scientific testing, I hereby resurrect this thread to dispute my past self's reasoning. Rehydrating your dry yeast in water, per the manufacturer's instructions, makes your beer finish properly, where otherwise it sometimes doesn't. Nevermind about lag time, if there is a difference anyway.
The December issue of Brew Your Own did a story on rehydrating vs. pitching directly into the wort. There were virtually no diffferences between the two methods. If you have the time and inclination then go ahead and rehydrate, but if your short on time or just don't care pitching directly into the wort will produce a beer just as good as the rehydrated batch.
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