"Nothing that can hurt you can live in beer"- Confirmed!

[Brewbuzzard]

Over/under on the number of posts it takes for someone to point out that, hypothetically, you could create a wort starter, infect it with botulism, then can it incorrectly, thus creating a possible beerborne pathogen (not that such has ever been observed)?

Or the fact that beer doesn't kill norovirus, so if you crap in a bottle, you could potentially contract it.


Real world: beer is perfectly safe. But somebody invariably points out that you can't say its statistically impossible, since lab conditions can create a few situations where one might get sick.

Well, if you crap in your beer then drink it you deserve to get sick. Infact gravity should just let go of your ass. Berma Shave

 

[RainyDayBrewer]

Are there cheap/easy ways to test for mycotoxins? It would be satisfying to do my own malting, but want a quality organic grain source.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Are there cheap/easy ways to test for mycotoxins? It would be satisfying to do my own malting, but want a quality organic grain source.

Yeah, depending on your personal definition of cheap and easy. You can do some ELISA testing at home.
https://www.mybiosource.com/elisa-kits

OR
You could accept the fact that the FDA regulates mycotoxins in food sold for human consumption. Do you feel the need to test for mycotoxins when you buy bread, noodles, breakfast cereal, etc? Why is this any different?

 

[bracconiere]

Are there cheap/easy ways to test for mycotoxins? It would be satisfying to do my own malting, but want a quality organic grain source.

UV flashlight will check for aflatoxin, and fusarium will gush when poured....(don't drink the gushers! i learned that the hard way!)

and a UV flashlight is pretty cheap.....

unlike brewing, in malting sanitation is important, but it's still safer then eating chicken from what i can tell....

edit: holly jessus, 2013?

 

[RPh_Guy]

UV flashlight will check for aflatoxin, and fusarium will gush when poured....(don't drink the gushers! i learned that the hard way!)

Do you have a scientific reference that this method works for screening barley?

 

[bracconiere]

Do you have a scientific reference that this method works for screening barley?

no, just saw them use UV for corn to check for aflatoxin in a whiskey documentary.....but i did look more into it...forget what i read now, and i got gusher fusarium thing from some homebrew article about malting....and i drank a gusher i thought was just over carbed for two days, and the next morning my liver was in pain, and blood work confirmed...it was ******, nothing a little proper food didn't cure for me after a month though....

 

[Brewbuzzard]

My reason for looking into this issue is I wanted to brew this weekend but have a virus of some sort. I'm only worried at the point of chilling.

 

[RPh_Guy]

no, just saw them use UV for corn

I don't think that it works for barley, especially barley that had been dried at a "high temperature".

My reason for looking into this issue is I wanted to brew this weekend but have a virus of some sort. I'm only worried at the point of chilling.

Fact:
Human viruses do not grow in wort or beer.

There are a lot of different kinds of viruses (HIV, Hepatitis B, RSV, influenza, norovirus, etc), so the best general advice I can give is:
Wash your hands after using the restroom and don't bleed or vomit into your wort or beer.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Thanks Doc. I'm an avid hand washer. On with the Hefe!

 

[bracconiere]

especially barley that had been dried at a "high temperature".

i just use a box fan at room temp....before i throw it in the oven....got to lock the enzymes up before kilning...otherwise you'd be making crystal malt...

 

[RPh_Guy]

i just use a box fan at room temp....before i throw it in the oven....got to lock the enzymes up before kilning...otherwise you'd be making crystal malt...

I'm just pointing out that you're suggesting a method to test for aflatoxin on barley with no scientific basis (at least none that I could find).

 

[Robert65]

don't bleed or vomit into your wort or beer.

This is probably the soundest piece of advice I've ever seen on a homebrew forum.

 

[grampamark]

This is probably the soundest piece of advice I've ever seen on a homebrew forum.

Which says a lot about the quality of advice on homebrew forums.

 

[bracconiere]

I'm just pointing out that you're suggesting a method to test for aflatoxin on barley with no scientific basis (at least none that I could find).

i would just 'assume' if it works on corn, it'd work on barley.....don't know for sure, i really don't even check each batch of malt i do. but i have to yield at this point..

(i just read that UV just detects kojic acid anyway, and is a poor test even for corn....)

thanks for the enlightenment...but fusarium does cause gushers right??

 

[RPh_Guy]

i would just 'assume' if it works on corn, it'd work on barley.....don't know for sure, i really don't even check each batch of malt i do. but i have to yield at this point..

(i just read that UV just detects kojic acid anyway, and is a poor test even for corn....)

thanks for the enlightenment...but fusarium does cause gushers right??

I'm not by any means an expert on testing for aflatoxin either, but I did skim a couple articles. UV light (BGYF) does seem to be a good test for screening corn. It has a high sensitivity but low specificity, so any positive result requires further testing (it still might not be contain toxins).
For barley on the other hand there is no literature for BGYF screening and one scientific article suggested that it isn't useful for barley and most other grains.

About fusarium and gushing, I really don't want to read a bunch of articles about it. Fusarium can produce proteins called hydrophobins that cause gushing. Is that a good indicator of fungal contamination with this genus? Maybe. There are definitely other possible causes of gushing, so it's not a specific indicator.

Does the level of hydrophobin in the final beer always correlate well with the level of toxins produced by Fusarium (e.g. fumonisin B1 or B2)? We need the answer to that question before recommending gushing as a good way to screen whether the beer may have Fusarium toxins.

Hope this makes sense

 

[bracconiere]

I'm not by any means an expert on testing for aflatoxin either, but I did skim a couple articles. UV light (BGYF) does seem to be a good test for screening corn. It has a high sensitivity but low specificity, so any positive result requires further testing (it still might not be contain toxins).
For barley on the other hand there is no literature for BGYF screening and one scientific article suggested that it isn't useful for barley and most other grains.

About fusarium and gushing, I really don't want to read a bunch of articles about it. Fusarium can produce proteins called hydrophobins that cause gushing. Is that a good indicator of fungal contamination with this genus? Maybe. There are definitely other possible causes of gushing, so it's not a specific indicator.

Does the level of hydrophobin in the final beer always correlate well with the level of toxins produced by Fusarium (e.g. fumonisin B1 or B2)? We need the answer to that question before recommending gushing as a good way to screen whether the beer may have Fusarium toxins.

Hope this makes sense

i'm glad beer makes me happy....lol, you're trying to scare me out of drinking.....

 

[RPh_Guy]

IDK. Exposure to significant levels of mold toxins is a risk you run when malting your own grain... and you've already gotten sick from toxic exposure so it's not an insignificant risk. Also a lot of mycotoxins are carcinogenic so they could be doing damage even though you may not get acutely sick (you probably wouldn't see elevated LFTs/transaminases for example).

If you want to avoid this risk you wouldn't have to stop drinking, just stop malting.

I'm not saying you should stop. It just comes down to how comfortable you feel with the level of risk vs the level of benefit.

 

[bracconiere]

I'm not saying you should stop. It just comes down to how comfortable you feel with the level of risk vs the level of benefit.

i like the taste...(i smoke cigarettes too)