Not sure what to tell LBS

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jmyers04

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So we have a new local brew store in town. They have been open for about a month. They are easily double the price on grains and hops than what I am used to paying online. He is a dollar or more higher per LB on the grains and is selling pretty much all hop varieties 1 oz for $2. I want to tell him he has got to figure something out or people wont be shopping there. Another local brewer feels the same way. How would some of you go about this? I want the store to succeed, I want to be able to have a place I can go close to home and pick things up but cannot justify it when I can get things online and pay for shipping and still be under his costs.
 
A brick-and-mortar store is never going to be able to even come close to the prices you get online, especially in an expensive living area.

I buy most of my hardware online and most of my ingredients at the LHBS except when I buy bulk hops.
Buy your base grains from them in bulk - it will both support them and save you some $$ over buying by the pound.

I find that the convenience of a short drive and getting what I need the day I need it is worth a small premium for convenience and speed.
However, if best price is your driver, you'll never find a LHBS as good as online, so it's a moot point.
 
My LHBS sells most 1-oz hops at $2 per packet. Grains are higher, perhaps double.

I buy my grain online in bulk, have it picked up and delivered so no shipping charges.

He's a great source of the odd pound or two of various oddball malts, like crystal malts, chocolate wheat or chocolate malt, things like that. I expect to pay $1.75 a pound for those. It's the price for having this stuff available.

I buy most of my liquid yeast at the LHBS, as well as a lot of hops. I know there is the temptation to want only the cheapest price, but I'm willing to pay more on many things to help support him. When I find I'm out of something, I'm fairly certain he has it. I'd hate to lose that fail-safe.

A good local owner will also be a source of information on various ingredients plus process, and may have good kits made of new and fresh ingredients.

Support your LHBS as much as you can!
 
$2/oz on hops is a good deal for a LHBS, IMO. Mine charges $2.69/oz on hops. However, he only charges $1.25/lb on all his grains (specialty or base, doesn't matter). Liquid yeast is $9.99/smack pack, but I still usually buy it from him because I don't want him to leave!

You have to decide if those cheaper prices online are really worth once you factor in shipping costs, as well as your desired timeframe.
 
jmyers04 said:
So we have a new local brew store in town. They have been open for about a month. They are easily double the price on grains and hops than what I am used to paying online. He is a dollar or more higher per LB on the grains and is selling pretty much all hop varieties 1 oz for $2. I want to tell him he has got to figure something out or people wont be shopping there. Another local brewer feels the same way. How would some of you go about this? I want the store to succeed, I want to be able to have a place I can go close to home and pick things up but cannot justify it when I can get things online and pay for shipping and still be under his costs.
Click to expand...

1 oz for $2 is a great price for some hop varieties. If he's selling Amarillo or Citra for that he's losing money. Are you saying he doesn't sell hops in sizes larger than 1 oz or that even if he does they are sold for $2 per ounce?

I pay more for my ingredients at my LHBS knowing I'm paying more than online because I want him to stay in business.
 
How are bulk grain prices...I've never seen online bulk grains for cheaper than I can get at LHBS AFTER shipping.

My LHBS is around $2.50 oz on hops...I buy online by the pound..WAYY less.
I buy all specialty grain at the LHBS for like you said maybe a $1 more a pound but on an average brew its only a couple bucks so I'm no complaining..

At the end of the day its there business and there numbers...and its your money.
I never talk online pricing with my LHBS..I buy what I buy and walk out
 
I agree with most of the other posters, I know I could get things cheaper buying on line, but my LHBS owner is who first taught me how to brew, and he is about 5 mins from my house. The convenience of being able to get what I need (for the most part) when I need it, and drink a few beers with my fellow customers is one of the best parts of going to the shop. OP, if you want this guy to stay in business I would suggest you suck it up and pay the premium for at least some of your equipment/ingredients. Ask him to your beer club meeting, he will likely be a great resource for new members. Cheers :mug:
 
jmyers04 said:
I want the store to succeed, I want to be able to have a place I can go close to home and pick things up but cannot justify it when I can get things online and pay for shipping and still be under his costs.
Click to expand...

What is this worth to you? There's an intangible value associated with this that the online sources can't offer. The online shops likely do a lot more volume, so they can offer lower prices, but that won't do you any good when you're in the middle of a brew day and realize you don't have the hops you though you had and have to make an emergency trip to the LHBS.

My LHBS is the same way. Their prices are reasonable, but not as low as the online places, but I don't mind paying them if it helps keep them in business.

To help offset the higher cost, I buy most of my base grains in bulk from the LHBS, so I only have to pay full retail for specialty grains and base grains I don't keep on hand. I buy online in bulk the hops I use a lot of. I buy the hops I use in smaller quantities from the LHBS. I also reuse yeast and when I do buy a new vial/pack of yeast, which is only once or twice a year, I get it from the LHBS.
 
My LHBS. Mainbrew in Hillsboro, Oregon, which does online ordering and shipping, most hops are $3.95 for two oz and grains are $1.50 per pound for specialty and between 75 cents to $1.50 for bulk grain per pound, depending on the type, which is way cheaper than Northern Brewer is.
 
Be glad you have a LHBS near you to pick up those last minute things you may have overlooked for brew day. The closest one to me is 70 miles. I'd gladly pay a bit extra to have one near.
 
Have a cup of coffee with him .. start by telling him that you want him to succeed. Negotiate a price on bulk grain. Find out what he can do ( with his supplier ) on liquid yeasts. Tell him what you would look for him to stock that might help you. Offer to do a demo at the store.
 
Yeah, I haven't had a LHBS closer than 75 minutes away since I started brewing 8 years ago. Right now the closest is about 3 hours. Be happy! I have to drop at least $100 every time I go in to stock up and have to try to keep up with my inventory to know what I need. I end up developing recipes based on what I have on hand, not what would be perfect. I'm moving this weekend and can't freaking wait to pay whatever the hell they want to charge just to be able to walk in, browse, chat, get what I need for one or two brews, and be able to grab that last minute thing I forgot. Seriously. Can't freaking wait!
 
The real way to look at this is not to compare the LHBS prices with online prices. They are two totally different businesses. If you have another LHBS nearby you could compare their prices. If the one you are talking about has higher prices across the board, you could, as tactfully as possible, mention that you wish to buy from him but the competition has better prices that you cannot ignore. But again you have to be comparing apples to apples. The comparison has to be with another LOCAL homebrew supply store. On in a suburb might have to have higher prices due to smaller client base than a similar one fairly close in a big city with a larger client base.

Support the LHBS as much as you can. It is really nice to be able to get something you need on the same day that you need it.
 
Do they mill grains on site? This is the main factor that keeps me comitted to my lhbs. I call in my order, buy a 55 lb sack, have them crush it split it in half, mill my specialty grain, and I go and pickup two 30ish pound grain bills on brew day. For 55lb sacks of Avengarde and Thomas Fawcet stuff it's lik 89 cents a pound. Way cheaper than online... However to make it cost effective I have to buy the whole sack paying close to 2 dollars a pound for the stuff in the bins would never be worth my time.
 
Great feedback. Didn’t think of it this way. He doesn’t sell anything in bulk that I a aware of. Or at least not yet. To get the record straight I am not a millionaire. So every dollar counts. For example. I priced my next brew from our normal online order spot. $28 for grains with shipping. He’s at $43. Online has it at my door step in 3 days max. That’s two batches I can do for the same price. Just hard to see him being open long as our area
Hasn’t had a local shop so everyone already has had to buy online for
So long I don’t see the main orders stopping and yeah people will get odds and ends from him but not what he wants I’m sure. I may have a convo with him and feel him out. Def wanna get my stuff local but I can’t pay double the price.
 
His business model might be geared toward selling kits to beginners. Walkins will buy a kit because they want to get into the hobby but don't want to buy a kit online. They want to walk into a store and have a sales person explain everything. They will continue to go back to the same place because it becomes like a cool place to hang out and talk about the dos equis clone they are going to brew.
 
I'm a firm believer in supporting my LBS. I feel like I get a great deal there because I am part of the community. Being a member of a group like the AHA costs dues, and you get benefits from these dues. Being a part of my community has benefits a well.

Some things I get through my LBS that I benefit from:

Support and tips (I can discuss my projects with them, get input, the guys are generally interested and excited)
They are available to sample my beers, and give feedback
They have put me in touch with local pro brewers who have tasted my beers and given feedback
They have club activities I can drop in, meet home brewers, try their beers
If I get stumped or frustrated on an equipment issue I can just bring it in there for help and advice
It is a good place to see new products in person
Information about any events or competitions locally

I do still buy some things online. They don't have everything I need. I purchase expensive equipment directly from the manufacturer to get support dialing it in, replacement parts etc. For example SS Brewtech has been great. Online companies often offer new hardware and gadgets I can't find at an LBS. Also there is often a certain yeast or something I want to try that they do not carry.
But for the most part I try and give the local guys as much business as I can. Great Peoples
 
I don't know. I'm sure you just want this guy to succeed, but you're not his only customer and your advice for him happens to be to suggest he lower his prices. He will see the error of his ways without your input or perhaps make a mint due to some value added that you don't perceive. Either way he's the one with the skin in the game. If the online product is a better product for you then that is the product you should buy.
 
I give as much business as possible to my local shop. I will pay more because I like to support local business. I brewed one time and something went wrong causing my yeast to not work. I waited for 2 days. At the end of the second day, I was at work and I asked my wife to look and see if the fermentation had begun. She called me and gave the bad news that it had not. The local brew shop closes at 6 and I know that I would not make it there in time. I called and asked them to please wait for me because I would be there shortly after 6. They happily waited for me, and my beer story ended happy. That is just one positive aspect of having a local shop. There are many more. Yes, it will cost me more to brew. But this is a hobby, and I understand that there will be money spent. My local shop cannot compete with the on line mega shippers. They are two people who run a brew shop, and they do a great job. They provide great service. I will funnel as much of my business as possible their way.
 
I am not sure I have ever bought anything on-line except hardware. My shop(s) have decent prices on bulk grains (usually keep MO, 2 Row and Pils) and OK prices on everything else. I like walking in and talking to those guys...it's also nice walking in and being addressed by name.

That said, I am thinking of buying 3 or so pounds of hops on-line today that are my "go to's" but I will continue to buy specialty grains, other base grains, yeast, and other hops from the store.

It's a balance between price and customer service and I'd rather pay more for that customer service.
 
my local homebrew shop charges £6.50 for 100g of Cascade. To put that in perspective thats the equivalent of almost $9 for an ounce of hops! I kid you guys not! I can get them online for about half that for American hops and about a third for British/European. Two bucks an ounce? man you guys are so lucky.
 
The closest lhbs to me is 1.5 hours, so I try to buy from them when I'm in ft worth or Killeen.

I'll buy from them online as well when I know I won't be there in person to support them

But I also buy from AIH or Northern Brewer as well, just depends on pricing and maintaining relationships with all of them

I think it's always good to have several options
 
MSK_Chess said:
my local homebrew shop charges £6.50 for 100g of Cascade. To put that in perspective thats the equivalent of almost $9 for an ounce of hops!
Click to expand...

I don't know what kind of math you use, but something is not correct in your calculations :)
 
MSK_Chess said:
my local homebrew shop charges £6.50 for 100g of Cascade. To put that in perspective thats the equivalent of almost $9 for an ounce of hops! I kid you guys not! I can get them online for about half that for American hops and about a third for British/European. Two bucks an ounce? man you guys are so lucky.
Click to expand...

Err - not quite. 100g is 3.53oz, and at current exchange rates £6.50 is US$8.73, so it's about US$2.47 per oz. I think my last LHBS Cascade were £6/100g - and we make it up on some of the malts - from memory my last 25kg sack of LHBS Maris Otter was about £32, which works out at US$0.75 per lb.

Although I'm the kind of person who tries to support local shops, I've stopped buying hops from him because they're just not good enough quality. He keeps them at ambient, and before I learnt to be more careful about checking harvest dates, I've bought hops that were 18 months old. Even when vacuumed, 18 months at ambient is not healthy for hops - and they seem to go off much quicker when they're opened as well, it's like they've been waiting to oxidise. I don't mind paying a bit extra, but I draw the line at compromising on quality.
 
It's a tough balance when you consider brick and mortar and online purchases.

My lhbs offers a lot of value to our local community. They host club events offer bulk grain buys, keep a good stock of grains and offer tons of advice to new Brewers. I suggest you talk to the owner and see if you can find a way to help each other get what you need.

The reality is if his prices are that far out of the market he won't be around for long.
 
I try to buy as much from the LHBS as I can. I don't typically get my hops from him because he only stocks 1 oz packs, they're not vacuum sealed, and buying 12 oz for a NEIPA is EXPENSIVE. So I buy my hops from one of two online vendors that package well and have nice prices/availability.

Pretty much everything else ingredient-wise comes from the LHBS. I also buy my small hardware needs like keg accessories, racking canes, tubing, star-san, etc. from him. I can email him directly with a list and he has it all ready to go when I stop by on the way home from work.

Prices for grains are reasonable...esp bulk grain. I have yet to see an online price that, with shipping, is cheaper (even "HUGE SALES"). If I have time I shoot the bull with him a bit and next time I'm going to take in a couple bottles to share with him.

Support you LHBS!
 
Amazingly, the place closest to me that sells home brew stuff is actually cheaper than online with many items. I don't know how they do it. Unfortunately, it isn't a HBS place and so far I haven't come across any employee with home brewing knowledge. I get strange looks from the cashiers as they ring up my alien purchases and one poor guy was mind-boggled that I was buying a box of empty bottles. The other unfortunate thing is their stuff doesn't move fast so I have to pay close attention to expiry dates on things. Anyway, all that to say - I definitely appreciate having them nearby (and their low prices!) so I try to support them, but I won't go as far as buying stale ingredients unless I'm really in a pinch.
 
radwizard said:
I'm a firm believer in supporting my LBS. I feel like I get a great deal there because I am part of the community. Being a member of a group like the AHA costs dues, and you get benefits from these dues. Being a part of my community has benefits a well.

Some things I get through my LBS that I benefit from:

Support and tips (I can discuss my projects with them, get input, the guys are generally interested and excited)
They are available to sample my beers, and give feedback
They have put me in touch with local pro brewers who have tasted my beers and given feedback
They have club activities I can drop in, meet home brewers, try their beers
If I get stumped or frustrated on an equipment issue I can just bring it in there for help and advice
It is a good place to see new products in person
Information about any events or competitions locally

I do still buy some things online. They don't have everything I need. I purchase expensive equipment directly from the manufacturer to get support dialing it in, replacement parts etc. For example SS Brewtech has been great. Online companies often offer new hardware and gadgets I can't find at an LBS. Also there is often a certain yeast or something I want to try that they do not carry.
But for the most part I try and give the local guys as much business as I can. Great Peoples
Click to expand...

Well Said
 
MSK_Chess said:
my local homebrew shop charges £6.50 for 100g of Cascade. To put that in perspective thats the equivalent of almost $9 for an ounce of hops! I kid you guys not! I can get them online for about half that for American hops and about a third for British/European. Two bucks an ounce? man you guys are so lucky.
Click to expand...

I get that £6.50 is about $9.

But 100gr of hops is about 3 1/2 ounces, or about....$2.57 an ounce?

Not great, but not $9 an ounce....
 
How would I go about this?
Tell the LHBS your concerns as you have told us. Then listen to the LHBS's reply. Repeat.
Buy online when you feel you have to, but let the LHBS know about the online purchase.
More data, better calculations.
 
This is why there are fewer and fewer LHBS around. Sure there are few if any items you can't buy online cheaper, except a certain equipment brand that sets the price their items may be sold for. On the other hand, you can't can't walk into the mail order big guy and expect to be talked to for a half hour after buying a few pounds of grain and some hops.
 
I seldom use my LHBS, I don't see any benefit to it. They are not very knowledgable, and their prices are 1.5 to 2x those of online retailers. I never have last minute items to pickup because I plan my brews in advance, and I hold a large inventory of Grain and Hops.

You want to help your LHBS owner??? DONT SHOP THERE!!!!, and tell your friends not to shop there!!! the sooner he fails, the sooner he stops struggling to make a lost cause work.
 
I drive out of my way coming back from work to go to a particular https://www.grainandgrape.com.au/ shop here in Melbourne. The shop itself sells most hop varieties for $9.95 AUD per 80g and Wyeast sachets for $13.50 AUD.The shops in my area as well as online merchants traditionally sell the same hop varieties for $9.95 AUD per 100g and a couple dollars cheaper for Wyeast. Similarly grain is more expensive at this shop compared with others.

So why do I spend my money there?

It's all to do with freshness. Even here in Australia, the Wyeast sachets at this shop are regularly anywhere from a fortnight to a month old max. The grain and hops are also of the utmost freshness IMO. I also appreciate that great care is taken in the storage of hops and grain as well as yeast. Well organised and not to mention they have a tap wall for samples of in house brews. They also run weekend seminars free to the public to further learning.

For myself at least, I view all of the previously mentioned reasons as justification for the premium and for my money.
 
I split my purchasing between two different LHBS's depending upon which nearby town we find ourselves in. One is a small storefront in a strip plaza, equipped with just about everything I need for AG, including equipment. It is extremely neat, tidy, clean and well-run and the folks are professional and knowledgeable and prefer to wait on you. Prices reflect a smaller amount of inventory compared to the other which is a stand-alone building, spacious, and co-ops as a hydroponics-supply business. It is not neat, tidy or clean, and the personnel seem to rotate in and out and are not that knowledgeable about inventory or brewing in general or helpful. It's basically self-serve, and while you have to check closely for freshness of ingredients, prices are lower than the other store, which, all things considered is where I like to shop. Still glad to have them both and always enjoy making the stop, if only to look around.
 
I wouldn't bring up pricing. They most likely already know where they are at. $2 for an ounce of hops is good. Grains also get cheaper if they have the demand for them. Maybe ask how much a bulk sack costs. Being a new shop they still are figuring out suppliers and market. I don't think it is the time to write them off.

Is there anything you would buy from them?

My advice...
Get to know them before making conclusions. They probably are more than willing to help you as much as possible. It is amazing what a good business will do. Give them the business you can. It doesn't have to be all of it, but a little support helps keep something you want.
 
I will be going in there soon. I think after reading all of these responses my new mission is to......1. Use him for as much stuff as I can (starsan, bungs, bubblers, yeast, puree, etc). Once I get to know him make the suggestion as....hey it would be nice to buy hops in bigger amounts than just one once, then work the conversation towards seeing if he has looked into buying them in bulk and vacuum sealing them himself....tell him it would be nice to be able to get 4 oz or a pound and then see what he says plus just mention it may be cheaper for him to buy them this way. And see what he says. Overall, he is a very nice guy the few times I have interacted with him and I want a LHBS for sure.....so I will try to do my part by giving him as much business as I can and then spreading the word about how nice he is and how much nice product he has. And let other people make the decision on whether to buy from him or not.
 
jmyers04 said:
I will be going in there soon. I think after reading all of these responses my new mission is to......1. Use him for as much stuff as I can (starsan, bungs, bubblers, yeast, puree, etc). Once I get to know him make the suggestion as....hey it would be nice to buy hops in bigger amounts than just one once, then work the conversation towards seeing if he has looked into buying them in bulk and vacuum sealing them himself....tell him it would be nice to be able to get 4 oz or a pound and then see what he says plus just mention it may be cheaper for him to buy them this way. And see what he says. Overall, he is a very nice guy the few times I have interacted with him and I want a LHBS for sure.....so I will try to do my part by giving him as much business as I can and then spreading the word about how nice he is and how much nice product he has. And let other people make the decision on whether to buy from him or not.
Click to expand...

If he doesn't have pound sizes of hops or other items, that you are in the market for that size, it wouldn't hurt to ask if he can get it for you.

I have asked for a particular grain, in bulk, and a couple of other items he doesn't stock, and he was glad to order it for me. He had it in a couple days. I didn't have to go home, search the internet and place orders with a couple different sites to get what I wanted.

The grain bags would have cost 50% more with shipping....
 

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