Not loving S-04...

[Hammy71]

Thank YOU!!!!!! I have been brewing for like 3 years now and I started using the dry yeast.. I will give it that it ferments very quickly but I couldn't put my finger on this sour tangy taste I was getting in my beers.... I just brewed a Chocolate Milk Stout and it has that sour tangy taste to it and I couldn't figure it out... does this settle with time??

In my experience no. It may become a little bit obnoxius...but I could still taste it in my Irish Red nine months later. I split a 10 gallon batch of this brew with a friend. He absolutely loved the beer and the 04 twang. So, I don't want to come across that I'm bashing the people that love this yeast. It just ain't for me.

 

[Geiger420]

F$#@ !!!!

 

[Cincy17]

I just kegged a pumpkin ale that was fermented with s-04 and it came out fantastic. I secondaried it for about 2-3 weeks since there was pumpkin in it, and it cleared completely and made a very compact cake in the secondary. No twang or off favors that I can find. I fermented around 62 degrees on average using a water bath so there were even temp swings as much as 5 degrees at times.

 

[andycr]

In my experience no. It may become a little bit obnoxius...but I could still taste it in my Irish Red nine months later. I split a 10 gallon batch of this brew with a friend. He absolutely loved the beer and the 04 twang. So, I don't want to come across that I'm bashing the people that love this yeast. It just ain't for me.

Interesting that it could just be a matter of taste!

 

[dbrewski]

Yes it is a matter of taste. I don't like tart yeasts. Tangy, tart, sour, same kind of thing. I don't like it, in spite of the other positive characteristics of this yeast. It's not that it comes out undrinkable, you just have to like that kind of thing. I'm working my way through my last keg of S04 brewed beer right now. I think I'm done with that yeast.

 

[whitehause]

My pumpkin ale that I did 3 weeks ago didn't even start up with S-04. Had to throw in some washed Bell's I was saving for another brew

 

[kanzimonson]

If you want to try an exciting English yeast, try WLP002 or Wyeast1968. I use this strain for most of my beers. I love the quick fermentation, high flocculation, slightly lower attenuation, and the fruity estery things it adds. I pitch at 62 and let rise to 68, then when it begins to slow I use a heating pad to raise to 72-75 or more. I've pitched and fermented at 68 but it's pretty pungent. I would mostly reserve this technique for super flavorful browns, pumpkins, imperials, ambers, etc. If you're trying an IPA then you can keep it subtle and still get a lot of character

 

[andycr]

If you want to try an exciting English yeast, try WLP002 or Wyeast1968. I use this strain for most of my beers. I love the quick fermentation, high flocculation, slightly lower attenuation, and the fruity estery things it adds. I pitch at 62 and let rise to 68, then when it begins to slow I use a heating pad to raise to 72-75 or more. I've pitched and fermented at 68 but it's pretty pungent. I would mostly reserve this technique for super flavorful browns, pumpkins, imperials, ambers, etc. If you're trying an IPA then you can keep it subtle and still get a lot of character

Pitching temp is something I've yet to master - most of the time I just pitch at 72 and let it work its way down. I have managed to pitch in the low or mid 60's at times, basically by icing the wort down to 50 something... The top-up water is usually at room temp so it always brings it up a bit.

I have to try 002, though. I wish I'd used it for this batch of Caribou Slobber instead of Windsor - it's been a week and it's every bit as cloudy as the Hefeweizen sitting next to it... Doesn't help that I forgot the Irish moss.

 

[Grantman1]

My name is Grantman1 and I am an S-04 hateaholic. Nice to see there are others that struggle with this as well.

Esters galore, even when I fermented in the low 60s. And not good esters.

 

[andycr]

My name is Grantman1 and I am an S-04 hateaholic. Nice to see there are others that struggle with this as well.

Esters galore, even when I fermented in the low 60s. And not good esters.

Welcome to the club! It's full of disappointing beers, strange esters, and shattered dreams.

Just sampled another with a little more age, still has a weird coriander and sour wine thing going on, with a bubblegum aftertaste. Glad I only brewed a 2.5 gallon batch; sure I can find some way to choke them down.

I do want to see whether age helps much, so I'll just take one a week for a few weeks before I give up all hope.

 

[RmikeVT]

I've definitely had some trouble with S-04. I brewed an English Bitter and it had a very tart finish. It has that nice round malty front, with a nice bitter finish then out of no where comes this tart I licked a sour patch kid or cry baby flavor. It faded as I drank through it and it aged in the keg but never went completely away. This was before I had temp control more firmly nailed down like I do now - but with so much other available yeast, dry and liquid if I get a yeast that doesn't perform well or suite my taste I just move on -- likewise if I get one I like for a particular style I stay with it. Don't fix if its not broken mentality.

 

[Phunhog]

Funny that I saw this thread...hardly ever use S-04 but used for OktoberFAST beer. I agree it has this tart thing going....not really sure what it is. I have temperture control..so that's not it. Don't really care for it....other people have tried the beer and they don't mind it.

 

[corkybstewart]

I use it a lot for bitters, milds, porters, etc, but I tend to ferment my ales pretty cool-60-62F for the bulk of the fermentation.

 

[solbes]

Anxiously awaiting trying my first S-04 beer. Just dropped a pair of browns in the fridge this morning and I'm nervous. 10 gallons across 2 styles with this yeast and I'm not very confident.

 

[blacksquid]

^^Yep. I bought 2 packs for use in a smoked porter and now you guys are making me think I should just go for something else... HMMM

 

[andycr]

^^Yep. I bought 2 packs for use in a smoked porter and now you guys are making me think I should just go for something else... HMMM

FWIW, I didn't notice the strange flavors as much in my stout as I did in my Hobgoblin clone; the roastiness seemed to cover it up to some extent.

 

[blacksquid]

Not sure I wanna do any cover up operation! I think I may just swap those packs for my usual US-05 or give Nottingham a shot...

 

[brew2enjoy]

My experience with S-04 is limited, but what I have learned is that it does well in darker or maltier beers. For example I used it in a Blonde ale once. That beer turned out fine, but it definitely had a bready character to it from the yeast. I used it in a double IPA before and it was fantastic.

 

[TriggerFingers]

I recently made an ESB that just came out weird with S-04. I kept the temps around 70 and it still came out "off." I pitched a 1.5 cups of the S-04 slurry from my ESB into my Obsidian Stout clone and it turned out absolutely fantastic! If I use dry yeast in the future, it will be S-05 or Nottingham. S-04 just didn't work out for me.

 

[corkybstewart]

I recently made an ESB that just came out weird with S-04. I kept the temps around 70 and it still came out "off." I pitched a 1.5 cups of the S-04 slurry from my ESB into my Obsidian Stout clone and it turned out absolutely fantastic! If I use dry yeast in the future, it will be S-05 or Nottingham. S-04 just didn't work out for me.

Temps around 70? Is that ambient or fermentation? No offense but I haven't let a beer ferment that hot in years except for my saisons.
Several years ago I brewed a 15 gallon batch of Mild, OG around 1.045. I fermented it in 3 buckets with different yeasts but all at around 62-64F. I used WLP004, Safale 04 and Nottingham. The hands down favorite was the Nottingham with a very clean taste, but the 04 was a very close second. I used a very un-scientific evaluation method, several friends and family members sitting in the backyard drinking, but they had no idea they were evaluating yeasts so their comments were pretty honest.

 

[GrainWhisperer]

Yep, my experience as well: darker, maltier ales seemed ok with S-04 but i made a pale ale with it once and tasted like it was mixed with cider.

 

[TriggerFingers]

Temps around 70? Is that ambient or fermentation? No offense but I haven't let a beer ferment that hot in years except for my saisons.

That was ambient air temp, and I started it in late September. I shot for a stretch of days when it was in the mid 60's outside. When I lived in Santa Barbara you could literally brew ales without any special considerations 10-11 months out of the year because the weather never really fluctuated. Here in New Jersey, it is another story.

 

[Geiger420]

Yep, my experience as well: darker, maltier ales seemed ok with S-04 but i made a pale ale with it once and tasted like it was mixed with cider.

I made a breakfast stout and that was the thought I had when I just siphoned it to a keg... I was taking a test sip from my FG it had the sour esters that I did not want... That will be keg # 3 that I used that ##@$@$@$@@ YEAST....

 

[Ibrewaletx]

I'm trying Danstar Windsor for my 10th and newest brew (Caribou Slobber), so it'll be interesting to compare and contrast.

I made a Caribou Slobber clone last winter with S-04 and it was spot on. I fermented at 64F and had no issues.

 

[SkyHighBrew88]

Just made an Amber ale with S-04. I thought the first time I used it (Common Room ESB), that something was different. It's probaby just a matter of tastes because some people do enjoy it, but this Amber (also 64F for the entire ferment) was the last beer it's going in...

Really really really wish I had used Cal Ale on the Amber instead. Oh well. Anyone have an alternative strain of English yeast that they'd use instead?

 

[jfr1111]

I personally like S-04, but I enjoy the tartness and breadyness it throws off and I ferment it low. It's not for everybody though. Some breweries really crank out the temperature (72F+) to get the fruityness out of it and I don't know how people can enjoy it. I think Meantime does use Whitbread that high for their IPA and it's one of the most celebrated English IPA out there...

I've brewed extensively with Windsor and it is a decent enough yeast, but I doubt I'll brew again with it. The mouthfeel is nice, but it gets much fruitier than S-04, even at lower temperatures and it tends to crap out very early (plus it never wants to drop out, unless you crash cool or fine with gelatin). Good for fermentble wort or beers with big sugar additions. Yesteray, I drank the last bottle of a mild I brewed with it and it was still as fruity as ever, even though the temperature couldn't have gotten higher than 64F on that ferment...

 

[bleme]

Anyone have an alternative strain of English yeast that they'd use instead?

Nottingham or Wyeast 1028

 

[corkybstewart]

I also use a lot of Nottingam for basic UK style ales. I have a mild fermenting with it right now, then Ill rack a porter onto the yeast cake when the mild is kegged.

 

[bierhaus15]

Anyone have an alternative strain of English yeast that they'd use instead?

I'm just going to say it... There are no dry yeast equivalents that are going to be even close, in overall quality, to the liquid strains for British style beer. Really, if you want to brew English beer, you need to be using a liquid yeast. Dry can make decent "attempts" but for the real thing, pony up the 7 bucks.

For hop forward beers: wy1028, 1335, 1098/99 (if you like whitbread), 1275, 1768, 1187, wlp006.

Malt forward: 1318, 1968, 1469, 1028, 1882, wlp037.

Favorites: 1318, 1469, 1882, 1768, wlp006.

 

[stevedasleeve]

I like S04 - low temps are clean, slight fruit, works well for American IPAs and Elder flower ales. A micro brewery in Kinlochleven Scotland uses it exclusively for traditional Uk ales. YMMV obviously!

Steve da sleeve