Not hitting numbers with new base malt.

[slayer021175666]

So, what I'm wondering here is if different maltsters or different two row barleys and Wheats can have different amounts of sugar in them and I need to add more malt or is it just a diastatic difference and I need to mash longer. Or???

Anyway, I brewed a beer that I've been brewing for a long time yesterday with the same amount of grain as I normally do but, I bought it from a different maltster. I only hit 1.044 when I was actually looking for 1.056. I was wondering if somebody could explain to me what's going on there.
Thank you.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Are you milling the grain yourself or buying it pre-milled?

 

[slayer021175666]

Are you milling the grain yourself or buying it pre-milled?

I mill it.

 

[day_trippr]

I had that happen to me when I bought a bag of organic base malt from Valley Malt a bit west of me and milled it like my regular domestic 2 row base malts from the likes of Briess etc - and had a 10 point OG miss(!) I had noticed an inordinate amount of malt floating atop the recirculating mash, and it was then that I gauged the malt kernels and realized they were quite a bit smaller than what my mill was set for...

Cheers!

 

[slayer021175666]

I had that happen to me when I bought a bag of organic base malt from Valley Malt a bit west of me and milled it like my regular domestic 2 row base malts from the likes of Briess etc - and had a 10 point OG miss(!) I had noticed an inordinate amount of malt floating atop the recirculating mash, and it was then that I gauged the malt kernels and realized they were quite a bit smaller than what my mill was set for...

Cheers!

So, by that, can I infer that there is no diastatic or sugar level difference from one two row barley to another? Is it positively something that I am doing wrong?

 

[IslandLizard]

There are differences in extraction potential among different malts and maltsters. You can look up the data for the type of malt you have, or even for that batch.
But most well-modified malts will yield a similar extraction per pound.

As @day_trippr said, some malts have smaller kernels and need to be crushed with a tighter gap. Always look at your milled grist and check for uncrushed or barely crushed kernels. You can always mill it again.

 

[slayer021175666]

There are differences in extraction potential among different malts and maltsters. You can look up the data for the type of malt you have, or even for that batch.
But most well-modified malts will yield a similar extraction per pound.

As @day_trippr said, some malts have smaller kernels and need to be crushed with a tighter gap. Always look at your milled grist and check for uncrushed or barely crushed kernels. You can always mill it again.

Well, I actually did have a problem getting it to feed through my two roller. It was like the rollers wouldn't grab ahold of the grain unless I set them so far apart that it didn't really crush the grain very good. I went back to my old Corona Mill and it seemed to work fine or maybe crush it too much but, didn't get a stuck sparge so I thought that it was good. I did notice there are different size grains in it. It doesn't seem to be as consistent as The Malt that I was getting before.

 

[slayer021175666]

I do have a malt report on it or whatever it's called that shows it's diastatic power and all of that but, I can't get it to upload.

 

[mac_1103]

Do you have the same data for the malt you used to use? Do you see any major differences?

 

[slayer021175666]

Do you have the same data for the malt you used to use? Do you see any major differences?

I don't but I'm sure it could be had. It was Mountain malt brand.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Most modern malts are relatively high in DP, on the level that the differences between say Golden Promise and modern barley varieties and different brands of generic pale ale malt are rather marginal in the grand scheme of things.
Grain crush will have a greater impact imo and if your manufacturer for some reason produce kernels smaller than others, that may as others said be worth checking.

 

[MaxStout]

Well, I actually did have a problem getting it to feed through my two roller. It was like the rollers wouldn't grab ahold of the grain unless I set them so far apart that it didn't really crush the grain very good. I went back to my old Corona Mill and it seemed to work fine or maybe crush it too much but, didn't get a stuck sparge so I thought that it was good. I did notice there are different size grains in it. It doesn't seem to be as consistent as The Malt that I was getting before.

That's probably the culprit--inconsistent crush when you went back to the Corona.

Next time you use that malt you could do a 2 step. Run it through your 2-roller with the gap wide, to avoid the jammed kernels. Just enough to break them up some. Then tighten the roller gap and run it through a second time. A little extra work, but it could pay off.

 

[slayer021175666]

That's probably the culprit--inconsistent crush when you went back to the Corona.

Next time you use that malt you could do a 2 step. Run it through your 2-roller with the gap wide, to avoid the jammed kernels. Just enough to break them up some. Then tighten the roller gap and run it through a second time. A little extra work, but it could pay off.

It wasn't that it was jamming between the rollers. It was that, it was not feeding through the rollers at all. It's like the rollers wouldn't grab a hold of it and pull it through. I had to put my hand down in it while I turned it with the drill and shove on it and manipulate it and shove it through the rollers.

 

[IslandLizard]

It wasn't that it was jamming between the rollers. It was that, it was not feeding through the rollers at all. It's like the rollers wouldn't grab a hold of it and pull it through. I had to put my hand down in it while I turned it with the drill and shove on it and manipulate it and shove it through the rollers.

Maybe the mill's rollers are a bit worn? Or gummed up.

 

[balrog]

IF it were a crush issue, such that you had larger "grits" than normal, or some larger grits due to various kernel sizes, then to answer one of your questions, yes, a much longer mash would have eventually gelatinized the larger grits and converted the starches. How much longer? No idea. But it does sound like the two crush recommendation, or just always use the corona, would be the answer.

 

[slayer021175666]

It worked fine on the Mountain Malt barley.

 

[slayer021175666]

IF it were a crush issue, such that you had larger "grits" than normal, or some larger grits due to various kernel sizes, then to answer one of your questions, yes, a much longer mash would have eventually gelatinized the larger grits and converted the starches. How much longer? No idea. But it does sound like the two crush recommendation, or just always use the corona, would be the answer.

I actually have been using just the corona mill. The two roller won't pull the barley through. I really don't get it. It is so weird! Never had a problem with it until I start buying this malt.

 

[sibelman]

If your new malt has a high "assortment" (variation in grain size), you probably should avoid it in the future. You might mention your problems to the maltster.

 

[rburrelli]

With the issues that many malsters have had with the current barley crops I might suspect low protein levels. Just a guess.

 

[hotbeer]

If your water boil off and other water losses elsewhere were different between this batch and the others, that could be part of the difference too.

Are your notes on each batch good enough to see if there were volume differences for the amount of water used and wort that it made?

Do you use a Beer Recipe software or spreadsheet and put the numbers the maltster gave you in it for that malt and see how your real world experience compared to the predicted?

 

[slayer021175666]

If your water boil off and other water losses elsewhere were different between this batch and the others, that could be part of the difference too.

Are your notes on each batch good enough to see if there were volume differences for the amount of water used and wort that it made?

No. As a matter of fact, in 27 years of brewing, I have never really known exactly what notes to take down. Maybe somebody ought to tell me how they do it so, I could do it myself.

 

[hotbeer]

No. As a matter of fact, in 27 years of brewing, I have never really known exactly what notes to take down. Maybe somebody ought to tell me how they do it so, I could do it myself.

If you've been making beer for 27 years and enjoying the beer, then maybe you best stay away from the beer recipe software.

They can be a useful tool, but for someone use to doing without, it might spoil the fun. But it could also add to the fun. At worst it'll have you going down a big rabbit hole full of more questions that it will spin off!




However even without the software, keeping notes to track all the ingredients used, including water amounts, and the times it took for mash, boil and any special things between will go a long way to helping compare to other batches. If all those things are the same but you get more or less wort for the fermenter, then your OG will likely be a different SG than the other batch.

 

[slayer021175666]

If you've been making beer for 27 years and enjoying the beer, then maybe you best stay away from the beer recipe software.

They can be a useful tool, but for someone use to doing without, it might spoil the fun. But it could also add to the fun. At worst it'll have you going down a big rabbit hole full of more questions that it will spin off!

I mean, I do use Brewgr.com and I take notes of specific gravity and I know my water numbers and everything in my head because I've been doing it so long but, I've never had a cheat sheet for notes or anything like that. Maybe I should. Also, I'm not probably using the Brewing software to it's fullest. I don't really have anybody else who brews around me. I'm the only brewer in my life. If I need new knowledge, I come to you guys.

 

[hotbeer]

Unfortunately I don't have knowledge of beer to any great extent. I just regurgitate things I've read that seem sensible. And I'm opinionated and don't mind stating stuff just to see if it holds up well with all the other peers.

I'm in your boat too. There really aren't any others I know here locally that brew.

 

[balrog]

Maybe somebody ought to tell me how they do it so, I could do it myself.

Everyone's different. Personally, I write down anything and everything. Times, temps, volumes, weather, weights, equipment used, bittering hops forgotten, propane running out during boil, thoughts, tastes, whatever I can think of. Admittedly, most of this stuff is not rigorously analyzed post mortem, but over time much of it has been reviewed -- "This came out better last time, what'd I do differently?" -- versus -- "What a keg full of crap, what'd I do differently?".