Northern Brewer Grain is not looking so good

[IffyG]

Then I guess my other question for clarification: Is it OK for him to post those pictures after contacting NB, if he also says "and they've agreed to ship me new grain, but this is what I got the first time around"? Or is that also poor form?

That is absolutely within what I would consider to be proper conduct. The tone of a statement like that is far different than using crushed in quotations and then complaining about hypothetical poor efficiency.

I suppose I must fall in the minority that feels it isn't fair to a business to complain about them in a public forum without at least speaking to them first...

 

[zachattack]

Someone please give a clear reason why a post like this shouldn't go up. I haven't seen the argument. The fact that some of you wouldn't have posted it isn't a reason the OP SHOULDN'T have. I can see objecting to the post if it was dishonest or malicious. It wasn't. So why should the OP not have posted it?

Well, to those of us that think it's wrong to publicize somebody's mistake before giving them a chance to correct it privately, the reason is very clear. Even with no dishonesty or malicious intention, it's still unfair and potentially damaging to NB. This is how I feel, and this is also how a lot of other people feel. The OP said that he shouldn't have specifically mentioned NB, and I think we all agree that if the tone of the title and original post were different there would be a much more positive response.

So I think there has been a good bit of agreement, let's acknowledge this and end the argument right here.

We all have different values and morals, but as long as we can all agree to respect beer I think we're good

 

[Franco]

That is absolutely within what I would consider to be proper conduct. The tone of a statement like that is far different than using crushed in quotations and then complaining about hypothetical poor efficiency.

I suppose I must fall in the minority that feels it isn't fair to a business to complain about them in a public forum without at least speaking to them first...

I never understood the thought process behind posting snarky comments bashing a vendor/company before trying to work out the problem on their own.. I mean, yeah it sucks that he got bad efficiency from a bad crush, but was it necessary to shame the vendor into fixing the problem?

Now, if the company had been ignoring his emails/phone calls it would be a different story, but to not even give them a chance to make it right and go straight to bitching? Poor form.

 

[BrewKnurd]

I suppose I must fall in the minority that feels it isn't fair to a business to complain about them in a public forum without at least speaking to them first...

Again, I don't understand what's unfair about reporting a fact, which is what those pictures were. The appropriateness of his commentary aside, I fail to see what is wrong with sharing pictures of what he received. He should have received properly milled grain. He did not. Nothing NB can do from that point forward changes that fact.

Ah well, its been fun, but I think I've spent enough time on this thread, and feel I have thoroughly conveyed my opinion on the matter. Ahhh, the joys of the moral dilemmas brought up by homebrewing.

For the record, I would have called them rather than post the pictures.

 

[IffyG]

I never understood the thought process behind posting snarky comments bashing a vendor/company before trying to work out the problem on their own.. I mean, yeah it sucks that he got bad efficiency from a bad crush, but was it necessary to shame the vendor into fixing the problem?

The thing is he never used the grain, so he never experienced poor efficiency. He merely posted the experience of other users that blamed the crush on their poor efficiency. Unfortunately people will invariably blame someone else for their problems and there are many more factors in efficiency than the crush.

For the record, I would have called them rather than post the pictures.

At least we agree on that part of the issue.

 

[kh54s10]

The choice of adding a little to the post would have stopped all the bickering in the first place.

The title: Northern Brewer Grain is not looking so good.
If this said: Last order of Northern Brewer grain crush not looking good - check yours.
Followed by the pictures and a note saying that he read that others were having efficiency problems and to check their orders. Then also a note that he was contacting NB to try to resolve the problem.

The problem was not the "warning". It was how it was stated. When I read it, it sounded like a rant against NB.

In the subsequent posts there was a lot of useful information added .

This could have started as a useful discussion with a better choice of words and some more information.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

For the record, we prefer that you attempt to rectify the situation privately before posting publicly. I'm glad it worked out in the end.

IIRC, Northern Brewer will actually adjust their mill for you (or at least "double crush") if you provide instructions or a brief description of your grain crush preference with your order. I'm not suggesting that you should HAVE to provide that information with an order, but for those who are concerned, it's probably worth typing a few phrases into the remarks.

 

[Beerfly]

I am not going to convince everyone that it was not meant to be malicious. I had been researching why efficiencies were low and found a thread that mentioned more than once a problem with grain crush from NB. I almost just added to that thread but didn't. I posted in the all grain brewing section, if I was trying to bash the vendor I would have posted it in the vendor section. As far as me not brewing with these first to see if it made for poor efficiency, well of course not, there is post after post of the importance of crush.

That all said, I seriously like NB and will continue to buy from them. I would have before they made it right. I feel obligated to post this e-mail to assure others of their undeniable great customer service.


Jim,

My apologies for the poor crush on that grain. We do regularly calibrate our mills, as we are very concerned with getting a proper crush. Our Fulfillment manager has posted examples of good crushes vs. poor crushes, but I think someone in the grain room must have had trouble with the wheat and rye malts (they require a different gap setting). I will certainly have some replacement grain sent out today for you, and I added a note to make sure it is well-crushed. We do not receive many complaints regarding the crush on our grain, though there is certainly the occasional case where it is an issue. The most common reports we hear are from customers expecting the grain to be completely pulverized because another shop processes their grain that way. We target the ideal crush described by Gregory Noonan, in which each handful of grain has a couple whole husks, and most of the husks are simply cracked open. Obviously that was not the case for you, and I am sorry about that. We appreciate you letting us know, and will make sure to pass the feedback along. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Cheers,

Dan
Northern Brewer, LLC

Original Message

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Jim, your tone throughout was cordial enough. I don't see any malice. Thanks for staying engaged rather than simply complaining.

 

[Brewskii]

I appreciate and even kind of expect that you guys would post stuff like this that you see. If someone indicates they have an issue with whatever it may be, I learn from that.'it's one of the things that makes my beer better.
I like NB as much as the next guy but does anyone really think this was malicious or that there needed to be some policing on the part of the poster ? The dude is just telling us about somthing that ACTUALLY happened. Shame on NB for letting it happen and good for me to know to watch for poor crush. I think your a fool if you let this keep you from ordering stuff from NB, but you would be just as big a fool if you didn't learn to double check your grains after this.

 

[Rev2010]

Geeez, a guy posts a pic of poorly crushed grain and people jump on him for "Not giving NB a chance" to right the order. Of course NB will fix it, they are awesome, but no one takes into account he now has to wait for replacement grain and it might have messed up his brew schedule, who knows when he is able to brew. Some of you are way too protective, he didn't bash the company or anything. Matter of fact, I got my mill cause of poor NB wheat crush - 56% efficiency bad! Been fine since. I emailed NB about it and they apologized and admitted sometimes the mill isn't adjusted for wheat, but I got no new grain for it.

I don't see anything wrong with the OP's post whether or not he contacted NB.


Rev.

 

[dawgmatic]

Though this no longer seems to be the topic of this thread, my last three all grains from NB all had 55-60 % efficiency.

Just thought id throw that out there

This is not an attack

I love shopping at NB, it'd the best lhbs near me. But I just set up my corona so that shouldn't be an issue anymore, or at least the fault will be on my mill

 

[two_one_seven]

Though this no longer seems to be the topic of this thread, my last three all grains from NB all had 55-60 % efficiency.

Just thought id throw that out there

This is not an attack

I love shopping at NB, it'd the best lhbs near me. But I just set up my corona so that shouldn't be an issue anymore, or at least the fault will be on my mill

This is an actual issue. But I would also ask if you have trouble shot the issue as brewhouse efficiency can be impacted by many factors including grain crush.....

How did the grains look?

 

[zacster]

If you want it done right, do it yourself!

 

[dawgmatic]

This is an actual issue. But I would also ask if you have trouble shot the issue as brewhouse efficiency can be impacted by many factors including grain crush.....

How did the grains look?

They looked more crushed than the OPs pics, but not by much. I've worked through the other potential causes, but haven't been in ahurry to get a mill cause grain is cheap

 

[ShinyBuddha]

I've received a bad crush from NB about this time last year. Even emailed them as asked if it was crushed. They said it was and that as they say is that. Was disappointed by the experience but that hasn't stopped me from ordering from them again.

Needless to say, I bought a monster mill (from NB even) so i wouldn't have those issues any more. =)

 

[TarheelBrew13]

It isn't fanboyism, it's the fact that people feel it is appropriate to rush commentary online without giving the merchant a chance to make things right.

The OP gave them a chance to make it right when he placed his initial order. If it came to him messed up then the company made a mistake. We all make mistakes but that's why companies have quality control. I don't know about you but when I do a job, my employers expect me to do it right the first time. If I make a mistake, it better be right before I hand my product over to the customer. In fact, most of my jobs are expected to be beyond what I promised to deliver.

I think the OP was correct to post his thread exactly as he did. NB, by their own admission, made a mistake. Any flack they receive for it was earned in making that mistake. They can only hope to mitigate that flack by a quick and professional correction. Is that harsh? Maybe, but that's business. There's an easy way to make sure these type of posts don't occur and that's to not send out mistakes.

 

[Stauffbier]

I don't expect perfection from commercial companies like NB or any other homebrew supplier. I know things can happen, so if my crush looks wrong I get out my rolling pin! I plan on getting a Corona mill soon..

 

[periwinkle1239]

So I bought a crushed AG from NB and this is how it arrived. Bag was ripped. Pretty disappointing but I lived with it.

 

[Stauffbier]

View attachment 51738

So I bought a crushed AG from NB and this is how it arrived. Bag was ripped. Pretty disappointing but I lived with it.

I had this happen with an order from Midwest and they gladly replaced it. They even shipped it over night so I could still brew on the weekend. My hats off to them for superb service in that case. I think most places will provide similar service if you bring it to their attention..

 

[JimTheHick]

I had this happen with an order from Midwest and they gladly replaced it. They even shipped it over night so I could still brew on the weekend. My hats off to them for superb service in that case. I think most places will provide similar service if you bring it to their attention..

When I ordered the partial mash Carmelite tripel NB forgot an entire bag of grain. I took the sack into work to weigh it and sure enough it was onli 3 pounds rather than the 5 listed on the bill.

They were cool and replaced it with both bags, but stopped short of overnighting it.

 

[kafkasbug]

I made it through 2 AG batches crushed by my LHBS with miserable efficiency before I decided to bite the bullet and get my own crusher.

I agree with previous posters that the crush is too big of a variable to be left to someone who won't be drinking the final product.

 

[Tantalus]

I hear that rolling pins are widely available for purchase.

 

[Bockinstein]

Will someone please post a pic of what properly milled grain looks like.
I'm new at this.

This is what I got home with. I called the guy and he said he wasn't trying to make corn meal just crush it. I emailed him pics but haven't heard back.
The one with the corn is a cream ale, the corn looked good.
Also my OG was way low on both batches.

 

[Stauffbier]

Will someone please post a pic of what properly milled grain looks like.
I'm new at this.

This is what I got home with. I called the guy and he said he wasn't trying to make corn meal just crush it. I emailed him pics but haven't heard back.
The one with the corn is a cream ale, the corn looked good.
Also my OG was way low on both batches.

Sorry, I don't have a photo for you, but the photo you posted (on the left) does not look crushed right to me!

 

[Bockinstein]

The one on the right is a bad pic, It's used mash and the flaked corn is all over the grain but it looked like the one on the right to start with.

I'm going to buy a mill, but I still need a pic if anyone has one.

 

[two_one_seven]

The one on the left is under crushed. The one on the right, can't tell because it's been mashed. You want to look at your grains before they are mashed.

 

[two_one_seven]

Here ya go.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Evaluating_the_Crush

 

[jfrizzell]

Here's a thread with some good pics of milled grain.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/show-us-your-milled-grains-249513/

The grains in your photo on the left don't even look milled.

 

[Bockinstein]

Excellent Thanks!