Northern Brewer - Buyer Beware

[wepeeler]

Take a look around. Nearly every business in the country has supply chain/covid/labor shortage issues, and now we are looking at a recession, plus war in a heavy grain producing region.

These companies are distributors of what are essentially specialty “food” products from around the world if you will and low volume, hand produced brewing equipment. It should come to nobody’s surprise there are issues filling orders.

Most companies like this are run by equity managers that combine companies to make the whole machine run more efficiently or to cut internal duplication, expand supply chains, etc. similar thing happened to Cabella’s and Bass Pro Shops. They were brought together by equity managers. Then oftentimes these companies are sold off for profit by equity managers who usually plan an exit in about 5 years.

Anyway, I’d lighten up on the expectations. If these companies could sell you stuff faster, they would. We’re just going through a difficult time. It will improve at some point, just be happy you can source some of these items.

I don't think anyone is being unreasonable by simply saying let your customers know there is a delay. Post it on your website, or at least during checkout that shipping is delayed 3-5 days or 2 weeks or whatever.

I'm in an industry that is experiencing supply chain issues, but we tell our consumers up front that your product make take 2 weeks or even longer.

 

[Steveruch]

shipping just 20lbs of malt cost me $80! the malt only cost me $5...

That's 25¢ a pound. Where is that?

 

[NobleNewt]

Take a look around. Nearly every business in the country has supply chain/covid/labor shortage issues, and now we are looking at a recession, plus war in a heavy grain producing region.

These companies are distributors of what are essentially specialty “food” products from around the world if you will and low volume, hand produced brewing equipment. It should come to nobody’s surprise there are issues filling orders.

Most companies like this are run by equity managers that combine companies to make the whole machine run more efficiently or to cut internal duplication, expand supply chains, etc. similar thing happened to Cabella’s and Bass Pro Shops. They were brought together by equity managers. Then oftentimes these companies are sold off for profit by equity managers who usually plan an exit in about 5 years.

Anyway, I’d lighten up on the expectations. If these companies could sell you stuff faster, they would. We’re just going through a difficult time. It will improve at some point, just be happy you can source some of these items.

I agree with your first 3 paragraphs, but dispute the last one. I can understand if NB doesn’t have malt or other agricultural supplies or if they’re stricken by other supply chain issues, but the fact that any of us can place an order through MoreBeer, Ritebrew, or any number of online suppliers and get our order within 3 business days kinda kills that argument.

I’ll temper my expectations when these shortages actually hit (they’re coming without a doubt), but IMO NB has had ample time to work out their warehouse and logistics issues. Everyone else can handle it, why can’t they?

 

[bracconiere]

That's 25¢ a pound. Where is that?

well they doubled the price of barley on me from $13 a 50lb sack, to $23...so it's like 48c a pound now...

i've been malting my own barley since 2016, right after inbev bought NB. i thought it'd be a good idea to start.

 

[Beermeister32]

I agree with your first 3 paragraphs, but dispute the last one. I can understand if NB doesn’t have malt or other agricultural supplies or if they’re stricken by other supply chain issues, but the fact that any of us can place an order through MoreBeer, Ritebrew, or any number of online suppliers and get our order within 3 business days kinda kills that argument.

I’ll temper my expectations when these shortages actually hit (they’re coming without a doubt), but IMO NB has had ample time to work out their warehouse and logistics issues. Everyone else can handle it, why can’t they?

I'd take issue there. In the construction and manufacturing, and chemical industries we have been plagued by shortages, delays and unknown availability of every chemical, materials, manufactured item and supply you can think of. Year number 2 of this now. Major players (and I mean major Fortune 500 companies) can't tell you when it will level off and most manufacturers I'm aware of have pulled guidance for the year and well into the future. I'm not sure that you can place all this blame on one distributor, they are getting supplies from all sorts of sources, some come in some do not.

It's so easy to hop on here and shoot off big negative opinions about this or that when there are so many factors at play. Most of the business people I work with are doing everything possible to fulfill products, or substitute products in every industry you can think of. This morning I pulled the trigger on a truckload of substitute materials as our regular supplier is out for weeks. This really needs to be a big picture view, if you want to come down and start bagging on specific companies, I guess that is your prerogative to do so on get in a big huff about it. I suppose you can go vote with your feet and go elsewhere, sounds like that's where you're going.

 

[NobleNewt]

well they doubled the price of barley on me from $13 a 50lb sack, to $23...so it's like 48c a pound now...

i've been malting my own barley since 2016, right after inbev bought NB. i thought it'd be a good idea to start.

Have you had good luck with your own malting? Good modification? Looks like an easy enough process.

 

[bracconiere]

Have you had good luck with your own malting? Good modification? Looks like an easy enough process.

well i get ~85% beersmith2 effec with store bought, and ~75% with my homemalt, i have no sense of taste. to me i like the taste of my homemalt better, from what i can get from it. @Sammy86 brewed with some, and said it was pretty decent, although same lower effec.

it's not 'hard' just time consuming, the only hard part is deculming, which i've made easy now with a dedicated clothes dryer, and leaf vacuum bag to catch the rootlets blown out.

 

[aceluby]

The only issue I have is that at checkout it says it'll be here in 3 days. A week later there's nothing, a week after that you get your coupon, then at some point it actually ships. That's a super frustrating process and feels like a very underhanded sales technique. I don't think it's asking too much to have on their website that they are experiencing delays up to 2 weeks when ordering instead of finding out like that. Maybe you choose someone else, maybe you just plan a little further ahead, but at least give the whole picture to the customer so they have the option to make that decision up-front.

 

[D.B.Moody]

It's so easy

. . .because Northern Brewer's problems were self created by their purchase of and closing Austin Homebrew Supply and Adventures in Homebrewing. They messed up. This (and their poor communication/response to customers) is why they do not get a pass.

They have disappointed people in Ann Arbor, Michigan, Austin, Texas, and pretty much everywhere on line. Why people keep ordering from them i do not understand.

I have never ordered from Northern Brewer because their prices are high. My ordering is done months in advance, so immediate shipping is not important to me. My last order was for 9 brews. I still have three of those to brew, but I will be ordering soon for the first 6 brews of 2023. My order will be split among Rite Brew, Homebrew Ohio, and my local, Missouri Malt.

 

[Beermeister32]

I have never ordered from Northern Brewer,

You are dumping on a company you have never ordered from before??? They've been great any time I've dealt with them.

 

[D.B.Moody]

They've been great any time I've dealt with them.

Which is why you give them a pass. I can understand that. @Dancy likes having them as his local. I can understand that. @BrewnWKopperKat likes Midwest's grain room as the best. I can understand that.
All I'm saying is that Northern Brewer isn't serving many customers well on line; they are not handling the customer relations well; and they brought the problem on themselves when they closed AIH/AHB. This was very recent. I actually ordered my Muntons DME from Adventures in Homebrewing in that last 9 batch order because Label Peelers couldn't supply it. This was not long before Northern Brewer bought them. I won't be ordering from them again because, oh yes, the pricing is now high.
I am not wishing anyone ill will. I'm just saying they don't deserve a pass.

 

[Sammy86]

well i get ~85% beersmith2 effec with store bought, and ~75% with my homemalt, i have no sense of taste. to me i like the taste of my homemalt better, from what i can get from it. @Sammy86 brewed with some, and said it was pretty decent, although same lower effec.

it's not 'hard' just time consuming, the only hard part is deculming, which i've made easy now with a dedicated clothes dryer, and leaf vacuum bag to catch the rootlets blown out.

I can confirm the beers brewed with Bracc’s home malt were delicious. People who tried it anecdotally couldn’t tell it wasn’t mass produced malt.

 

[Bobby_M]

Anyway, I’d lighten up on the expectations. If these companies could sell you stuff faster, they would. We’re just going through a difficult time. It will improve at some point, just be happy you can source some of these items.

The point is they seem to be the only company jacking their customers around to this degree. A company that is having trouble keeping up shouldn't be offering 10% off coupons when you enter their website. There's no indication that there will be a delay at all prior to placing an order. The excuses and apologies come AFTER you ask why it's taking so long. That's unethical at the very least and people are justified in their frustration.

You keep bringing up supply chain issues across multiple industries, and I understand why that's become instinctual for everyone, but NB themselves have not stated that as the primary issue. Second, the majority of the products they sell are readily in stock at all the major distributors and online retailers. Can we agree that the problem is not primarily driven by supply chain? Also, do you think a company should warn their customers about delays before the order is entered or not?

 

[Dancy]

I placed my order with Midwest late Sunday night, 10/2. At that time, MW's website stated 10/7 for delivery. I received it today, 6 days late and shipping across town to my Mpls suburb is only ONE day. Hey, the liquid yeast was still cold! They let me know by email some days after I ordered it would be delayed (with a $10 off coupon code). My assessment is they've tried to make up for it but as Bobby said, "The point is they seem to be the only company jacking their customers around to this degree." I live across town from them so my decision to use mail order this time was uncommon -- and I don't plan on doing it again. I will buy from them in person but I have also ordered in the past from Atlantic Brew Supply when I have enough for free shipping -- they are very service oriented and I like giving them some business from time to time. My IN-person experience with MW has been fine so I will support them.

 

[bracconiere]

They let me know by email some days after I ordered it would be delayed (with a $10 off coupon code)

that sounds a lot like bogus marketing to me now...

 

[z-bob]

I don't understand why this one vendor generates so much... what's the word... passion. I do get warning other people about bad service, but this (in general, I'm not talking about anyone in particular) seems personal.

I'm hoping NB and MW get their act together. Maybe if enough people start shopping somewhere else they can handle the reduced volume.

 

[bracconiere]

seems personal.

it is...

 

[SmoothBrews]

Pretty sure they're the ones who bought out my LHBS then blew everyone out and closed down the store (online only now). I have zero interest in them, they can go out of business tomorrow for all I care.

Seems everything today is owned by a single corporation, no more local stores.

Ain’t happening. Unfortunately, Northern Brewer was bought out by AB-InBev some years ago.

 

[bracconiere]

Ain’t happening. Unfortunately, Northern Brewer was bought out by AB-InBev some years ago.

then bought by a, what i'd be suspisois symapthetic or shell investment firm...and i wonder what setting to discourage, they see in their profits...?? seriously....when we're talking about billions, a few million on discouragment is significant...

 

[madscientist451]

So I've never made a kit beer, I went from cider/wine making to all grain beer a while back, but these days I don't have much free time so I ordered their 3 kit special for what looks like 50% off. As I expected, the order didn't show up on time, but they emailed me (without asking) an apology and $10 off coupon good for a year. I don't have time to brew anything right now anyway, so I'm good.
My expectations were low, so I'm not disappointed. As I get older, I've realized this works for me, some things just aren't worth worrying about.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

PSA on buying kits in advance: store the ingredients properly

Generally, it's better to store

• yeast in the fridge,
• hops and LME in the freezer,
• DME and grains in a cool dry location safe from insects.

I'm not aware of a 'read more about it' sticky here at HomeBrewTalk. In the mean time, /r/homebrewing's wiki has additional information on storing kit ingredients.

 

[bwible]

I have continual problems with NB website freezing and not working. I use a mac/iphone and Safari so it could just not be optimized for Safari. But I don’t have that problem ordering from MB or anyone else ? NB has some interesting items and I’ve bought some cool brewing t-shirts from them.

I just placed a MB order on Sunday for grain, hops, and a small piece of equipment. I got it yesterday, Wed. No issues. I’m in PA, one of their locations is in PA, and I usually get stuff in a couple days. Them and there is another store I order from that is almost 2 hours drive that I also get good service from. I know the owner from way back when I also used to own a store. I try to order from him first unless I really want something he doesn’t have.

I ordered from MB this time because I wanted that specific gadget (carboy cap with thermowell for glass carboys) and then of course you have to get to $59 to get free shipping.

 

[faithie999]

another option for mail order:
I live in Indianapolis and Great Fermentations has been in business for at least the 30 years I have been home brewing (same owner). They have a great staff and are always available by email or phone for questions or problems. They have a wide selection of grains and yeasts as well as the standard range of equipment that you'd expect a HB shop to carry.

flat rate shipping is $8.99 but orders totaling more than $55 get free shipping. there are a couple of exceptions mentioned on their website (bulk grain, glass items, large equipment).

I have no connection with Great Fermentations other than being a happy customer.

greatfermentations.com

Ken

 

[bwible]

I was about to hit Send and I just thought of this; they might have tried to implement just-in-time inventory with little or no warehousing, and that doesn't work when supply chains are disrupted. But you'd think they'd have figured that out by now

That just in time stuff is really a joke. Only makes sense in manager land. The idea that you can’t have inventory because it is costly but not understanding that not having inventory can be costlier. I don’t know what they teach managers in college but I swear the first part of the manager cirriculum must involve lobotomy.

 

[NobleNewt]

another option for mail order:
I live in Indianapolis and Great Fermentations has been in business for at least the 30 years I have been home brewing (same owner). They have a great staff and are always available by email or phone for questions or problems. They have a wide selection of grains and yeasts as well as the standard range of equipment that you'd expect a HB shop to carry.

flat rate shipping is $8.99 but orders totaling more than $55 get free shipping. there are a couple of exceptions mentioned on their website (bulk grain, glass items, large equipment).

I have no connection with Great Fermentations other than being a happy customer.

greatfermentations.com

Ken

I was initially going to place my order with GF as I’ve had good luck with them in the past, but their free shipping over $55 doesn’t cover “bulky” items. I’ve had a bout of infection issues that I think stem from my bottling process, so I was purchasing new buckets, hoses, spigots—that kind of stuff—plus a recipe kit to get over $55.

All said the order was like $110, but they wanted nearly $35 to ship everything presumably because of the bulkiness of the buckets. Ipso facto, I went with NB for free shipping creating the situation this whole thread is about. MoreBeer was shipped free.

Granted I like GF and would happily buy from them again if I were buying several recipes worth of ingredients and could cash in on the flat rate shipping. That’s what I did last time. Don’t mind paying shipping if it’s reasonable, but $35 was a little rich for my blood.

 

[bike2brew]

Well said in regards to post on expectations. I am thankful to be able to source ingredients and don't work on a tight brewing production schedule. It's a hobby for fun.

 

[bwible]

This all goes back to the common compaint though of people not having local shops. Having been in the business years ago I can speak from experience. I bought a local hb shop from a guy who wanted to get out. I ran it for about 4 years before I ran out of money, had to close and at the time I had to declare bankruptcy.

Everybody talks a good game but the fact is homebrewers do not support local shops when they have them. If I had a dime for every time somebody came in my shop with a fancy glossy morebeer catalog and wanted to beat me up because an airlock was .59 from them and I was selling them for .99 I could retire. And all the people who came in, looked at everything in my store, had me pull stuff out of boxes and show them, asked me 100 questions and then ran home and bought online to save $10. Our homebrew club used to get together and buy grain by the pallet from a distributor and split it among themselves.

Retail is a numbers business. Its been stated how large companies with cash are buying these businesses. When they buy 2,000 airlocks from the warehouse they get a whole lot better price than a small store does buying 50 or 100 at a time. The small stores don’t have the budget or the storage space in most cases to buy in the quantities these big guys buy - so they don’t get the price these big guys are getting. So no, your small local shop can’t compete on price. And thats how these places can offer free shipping and still make money.

Homebrewing is a small niche business. Its not like a pizza place where everybody eats pizza. Only a small percentage of people homebrew. If you are fortunate enough to have a local shop you should support them. If you don’t you’re going to be on here next complaining about having to buy online and getting poor service and dead yeast in 100 degree temps.

 

[Boilinginsc]

I just clicked on rite Brew and they have a big red “notice” dead center top stating that they are closed until Monday so any orders will be processed at that time.
NB should take notice how this is done.

 

[SmoothBrews]

then bought by a, what i'd be suspisois symapthetic or shell investment firm...and i wonder what setting to discourage, they see in their profits...?? seriously....when we're talking about billions, a few million on discouragment is significant...

Oh I hadn’t realized that tbh. I really try not to buy anything from them as much as possible.

 

[Ayzala]

I can understand a need there if people were having trouble with an online retailer that has completely monopolized the homebrew supply market in the entire country. While the NB/Midwest/Austin/AiH corporate machine is pretty large, it's by no means even close to a monopoly. Either way, people need to put pressure on them until it hurts (by shopping elsewhere).

^^^ This ^^^

Thank you Bobby! I ordered a batch and some hardware from you on Tuesday and it was here on Thursday!!! I know I'm only a couple of states away, but then I didn't use fast shipping.. What I'm saying is ~1 day from order to ship. Can't beat that!

 

[ncbrewer]

That just in time stuff is really a joke. Only makes sense in manager land. The idea that you can’t have inventory because it is costly but not understanding that not having inventory can be costlier. I don’t know what they teach managers in college but I swear the first part of the manager cirriculum must involve lobotomy.

+1000
(I was a construction project engineer.)

 

[Draft Master Flash]

I'm way over NB and it's associates. I don't even think about them anymore. MoreBeer, Ritebrew and SoCo Homebrew is all I need.

DMF

 

[kartracer2]

I'm hoping NB and MW get their act together. Maybe if enough people start shopping somewhere else they can handle the reduced volume.

^^^^(Me tapping my fingers patiently for that day again)

I would hate to guess the order volume the NB/MW/AiH company has per day. My guess a semi load of UPS packages daily, maybe more?. It has to be hard to judge how much staff to have to meet that volume. If you hire a bus load to CYA today, what happens when volume drop back a little. Then you have to lay ppl off or it costs you $$$ to keep them on, just in case. That's the old "rock and a hard place" situation. Too bad they don't have a rep on the forum here, but then again, who would want to have rocks thrown at them constantly.
I have said it in the other threads about this topic, something happened when they bought AiH/AHS and it really screwed things up. I can't see them wanting this to be their biz model. The whole sale/buyout deal has had me wondering about the why's and where fore's from it's inception. I would wager a couple of beers that they have had second thought's about it.
Anyway,
"Cheers"! Papa will be needing a couple of beer kit's soon!.
Joel B.

 

[Dancy]

I don't think it's asking too much to have on their website that they are experiencing delays up to 2 weeks when ordering instead of finding out like that.

EXACTLY. if I’d been informed at the point of ordering, I would’ve made time to drive to the store. That’s a simple courtesy.

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

Morebeer is the real deal....my go to

My LHBS is great for ingredients, not as much for equipment. Morebeer has become my go to place to order what I can’t get locally. Great prices, great service, fast (usually free) shipping.

 

[JoeSpartaNJ]

The only issue I have is that at checkout it says it'll be here in 3 days. A week later there's nothing, a week after that you get your coupon, then at some point it actually ships. That's a super frustrating process and feels like a very underhanded sales technique. I don't think it's asking too much to have on their website that they are experiencing delays up to 2 weeks when ordering instead of finding out like that. Maybe you choose someone else, maybe you just plan a little further ahead, but at least give the whole picture to the customer so they have the option to make that decision up-front.

I agree with you, but I can see why they don't.

If you go onto any web-store and the first thing you see is "2 week Delay", unless they are the only store that sells what you want, they know you are most likely going to buy it somewhere else. I know I would.

I do not agree about how when they process your order, telling you that it will take 3 days, knowing that it will be a minimum of 2 weeks plus. Totally deceptive practice, borderline unethical.


Kind of the "easier to ask for forgiveness, than permission" scenario.....here's a $10 coupon for next time.

I guess I'm saying the same thing you are, just in a different way.


The only reason I use to shop NB was for the 3 Recipe deals for $60 they used to have. Since they only offer this deal for extract recipes now, I have no reason to shop there. Even if they had an item, that no one has, I would still try to substitute it for something else from someone else.

 

[Teufelhunde]

If you go onto any web-store and the first thing you see is "2 week Delay", unless they are the only store that sells what you want, they know you are most likely going to buy it somewhere else. I know I would.

And if people did buy it somewhere else, in a very short time, they could catch up with their backlog, remove that notice, and start giving their customers the service they deserve when the spend their HARD EARNED MONEY.....

 

[rmchair]

Aha, i have been out for several
Months but just noticed Austin & AIH was in lockstep with MW and NB. They all sent out coupons that didnt work. I only bought loss leaders from them once inbev stepped in but now im done.

Morebeer does good with what they have for me. Id also shout out to Southern homebrew. Specializing in winemaking, they have great prices, especially if you find their little warehouse in New Smyrna Beach off of I-95.

 

[aceluby]

And if people did buy it somewhere else, in a very short time, they could catch up with their backlog, remove that notice, and start giving their customers the service they deserve when the spend their HARD EARNED MONEY.....

I mean, this is the solution. Stop having online sales if they can’t keep up with them, be honest with your customers about accurate shipping times, and in a short time you’ll be caught up and can remove the banner. That would give them a much better reputation than the current process.

As it is now, I won’t order from them online, will go to their shop when I can make the drive, but prefer my LHBS for anything I can get.

BTW, has anyone noticed a shortage of Pale Malt? NB hasn’t had 55 lbs bags for a while and ran out of by the pound malt too for the last month.

 

[z-bob]

BTW, has anyone noticed a shortage of Pale Malt? NB hasn’t had 55 lbs bags for a while and ran out of by the pound malt too for the last month.

I've not noticed a shortage anywhere (yet), but the price is *way* up.