New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[secretlevel]

Back to the subject of Cosmic Punch, and sorry, this isn't exactly a NEIPA, but rather something inbetween a WC and a NEIPA. I used a Pliny grain bill, so it's a little darker than I wanted, but the flavor is pretty crazy.

𝗔𝗿𝗼𝗺𝗮: gummy bears, nectarine, floral
𝗙𝗹𝗮𝘃𝗼𝗿: floral and fruity, juicy pear, rose petals and gummy bears.

Talus added a very interesting floral and rosey note to the beer, accompanied by super juicy pears and gummies. The rose bush is pretty prevalent at first, but then the fruit takes over. Juicy pear is a very nice flavor that dominates. Overall, I'm starting to lean more and more toward hop flavor and less toward yeast esters, just like some of y'all noted above. The Cosmic Punch adds intense juiciness, but I'm really curious how this beer would taste if I used US-05 or Lutra.

Boil: 60 IBU
1oz CTZ @ 20 min
1oz Simcoe @ 15 min
1oz Talus @ 10 min

Whirlpool
2oz Talus
1.5oz Simcoe
2oz Citra
1oz CTZ

Late Ferm DH
2oz Talus Lupomax

DH 2
3oz Talus
2oz Simcoe
1oz Citra

 

[wepeeler]

They have some fantastic malts. Sometimes they have deals on them, I'd just get a bag of 2-row and their wheat for NEIPA's for more casual brewing needs.

On the subject of their Shaniko, they actually have another Wheat malt that they created specifically for Alvarado street. Apparently it's the highest protein content of any wheat on the market...
Would love to try it, but I live in Illinois

Awesome. They ship sacks, but it gets crazy expensive. That's for 1 50# 2 Row and 1 50# Wheat.

Ridiculous.

 

[secretlevel]

Awesome. They ship sacks, but it gets crazy expensive. That's for 1 50# 2 Row and 1 50# Wheat.View attachment 771229 Ridiculous.

Yeah, it's pretty intense. I would try and chat with your local LHBS's or a local brewer that you think may use the malt and see if they'd want to place an order together. I think it's much cheaper to order these in bulk.

I personally get Mecca from Northern Brewer right now, it's free shipping on orders over $50.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’ve done it both ways and it comes out pretty even. The prices that Northern Brewer charges are so high that even with the free shipping, you’re going to spend just around $50 on the grains For approximately 15 pounds. The prices direct from Mecca are pretty comparable to any other grain. But the shipping basically doubles it and makes it about $50. Group buys are definitely the way to go if possible.

I currently have 11 pounds of Lamonta, 3 pounds of Shaniko, and 2 pounds of Alvarado ready for my next brew day.

 

[wepeeler]

Yeah, it's pretty intense. I would try and chat with your local LHBS's or a local brewer that you think may use the malt and see if they'd want to place an order together. I think it's much cheaper to order these in bulk.

I personally get Mecca from Northern Brewer right now, it's free shipping on orders over $50.

I do NB too. I have a shipment on the way! But it would be nice to have it in bulk. I'll see if my local shop can order me a few sacks.

 

[wepeeler]

I’ve done it both ways and it comes out pretty even. The prices that Northern Brewer charges are so high that even with the free shipping, you’re going to spend just around $50 on the grains For approximately 15 pounds. The prices direct from Mecca are pretty comparable to any other grain. But the shipping basically doubles it and makes it about $50. Group buys are definitely the way to go if possible.

I currently have 11 pounds of Lamonta, 3 pounds of Shaniko, and 2 pounds of Alvarado ready for my next brew day.

That's going to be a THICC beer

 

[secretlevel]

I’ve done it both ways and it comes out pretty even. The prices that Northern Brewer charges are so high that even with the free shipping, you’re going to spend just around $50 on the grains For approximately 15 pounds. The prices direct from Mecca are pretty comparable to any other grain. But the shipping basically doubles it and makes it about $50. Group buys are definitely the way to go if possible.

I currently have 11 pounds of Lamonta, 3 pounds of Shaniko, and 2 pounds of Alvarado ready for my next brew day.

How do you like the Alvarado wheat? Would you say it's that much different from regular white wheat/oats?

 

[HopsAreGood]

I haven’t tried it yet. I’ve only used the Mecca grade malt a couple of times and I’ve only used the Lamonta and Shaniko which are great. I’ve previously used 11 pounds Lamonta and 5 pounds Shaniko. So this one I’m just swapping in 2 pounds of Alvarado for Shaniko.

Maybe down the road I’ll do one with only Lamonta and Alvarado.

 

[Whalewang]

What are some of the better fermenting options for 15 gallon batches?

Background: My chest freezer just broke and is unrepairable. I previously fermented in multiple 7-gallon FerMonster carboys. Now is the time to upgrade if I'm going to do that.

 

[ihavenonickname]

@Whalewang I mean there are so many options and everything has its pros and cons. I think for this style the critical feature is some pressure capabilities so you can cold crash and transfer easily without o2 exposure. For full 15g in one vessel you are probably looking at the spike or the SSBT conicals. I have a spike CF10 and it’s great and as advertised and you can’t go wrong… BUT I’m not totally convinced big concials are the way to go and it’s certainly not necessary - it’s just a lot of stuff to deal with and clean, it doesn’t make better beer than when I fermented in kegs, that big of volume is so heavy you can’t carry it anywhere. So I’d split my vote for getting a CF15 or just getting three 7 gallon kegmenters with floating dip tubes and filters. It would let you split batches for yeast and dry hop trials. This is a pretty alternative position I’ll admit. Of course it’s not as sexy and you can’t dump yeast or trub. The other obvious choice would be three CF5s and glycol to run them all but that’s gonna cost you an arm and a dik.

 

[secretlevel]

@Whalewang I mean there are so many options and everything has its pros and cons. I think for this style the critical feature is some pressure capabilities so you can cold crash and transfer easily without o2 exposure. For full 15g in one vessel you are probably looking at the spike or the SSBT conicals. I have a spike CF10 and it’s great and as advertised and you can’t go wrong… BUT I’m not totally convinced big concials are the way to go and it’s certainly not necessary - it’s just a lot of stuff to deal with and clean, it doesn’t make better beer than when I fermented in kegs, that big of volume is so heavy you can’t carry it anywhere. So I’d split my vote for getting a CF15 or just getting three 7 gallon kegmenters with floating dip tubes and filters. It would let you split batches for yeast and dry hop trials. This is a pretty alternative position I’ll admit. Of course it’s not as sexy and you can’t dump yeast or trub. The other obvious choice would be three CF5s and glycol to run them all but that’s gonna cost you an arm and a dik.

I think cleaning one conical will be easier than 2-3 individual fermenters, plus lifting them in/out of chest freezer is a literal back pain. However, conical setup with glycol is a hefty investment. It's much cheaper to get a new chest freezer than a new conical setup...

 

[Whalewang]

@Whalewang I mean there are so many options and everything has its pros and cons. I think for this style the critical feature is some pressure capabilities so you can cold crash and transfer easily without o2 exposure. For full 15g in one vessel you are probably looking at the spike or the SSBT conicals. I have a spike CF10 and it’s great and as advertised and you can’t go wrong… BUT I’m not totally convinced big concials are the way to go and it’s certainly not necessary - it’s just a lot of stuff to deal with and clean, it doesn’t make better beer than when I fermented in kegs, that big of volume is so heavy you can’t carry it anywhere. So I’d split my vote for getting a CF15 or just getting three 7 gallon kegmenters with floating dip tubes and filters. It would let you split batches for yeast and dry hop trials. This is a pretty alternative position I’ll admit. Of course it’s not as sexy and you can’t dump yeast or trub. The other obvious choice would be three CF5s and glycol to run them all but that’s gonna cost you an arm and a dik.

Thanks for the info. I'm thinking of going with Spike:
Conical Unitank | Spike Brewing
Conical TC-100 Temp Control Bundle | Spike Brewing

Probably a smaller footprint than my old setup. Less lifting. More $$ - about $1200 before taxes but it has cooling.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Dgallo]

Just wanted to share a few things back to back.

This past Wednesday, my Homebrew club (The Albany Brew Crafters) was fortunate enough to have Omega yeast give us a presentation on bioengineered yeast, which genes they select, the process of hybridizing, exactly what their strains can do, and projects currently in RD and trials. The coolest part is that Lance Shaner himself gave us the presentation.

Anywho some fun facts from the presentation.

1) The gene that thiolizes actually comes from a bacteria that lives in our armpits, behind our knees, and in the nether regions lol. They are responsible for body odor, which is actually a Thiol very related to the hop Thiol 4mhp, hence why sometimes you get BO/cat piss from certain hop varieties.

2) Cosmic Punch has the bio availability to release thiols to 10x the sensory threshold, but Starparty far exceeds that at 300x the threshold

3) mash hoping can up the Thiol production between 2-5x the threshold. He suggested mashhopping is beneficial for cosmic punch, but not necessary for starparty.

4) they currently have trials going at some big name breweries using a thiolized Lager Strain

5) they are working on a “hazy” strain that will up the Thiol releasing to 300x just as starparty does. Moreover the strain is also cable of making its own linalool, geraniol, and Myrcene

6) lance highly suggested making a simple blonde ale using starparty so you can see how efficient it is and the profile it creates

It was one of the best things I’ve attended. Great experience.

 

[Dgallo]

Second thing I wanted to share is that Crosby Hops currently has strata and Nelson Lupulin pellets and they may be released this year to homebrewers. A local professional brewer is going to allow me to try some of the strata. I will report back once I do

 

[secretlevel]

Lance is awesome. I've emailed them with yeast questions before and he responds pretty frequently. They have other experts always sharing awesome insight too, don't hesitate to reach out to them.

5) they are working on a “hazy” strain that will up the Thiol releasing to 300x just as starparty does. Moreover the strain is also cable of making its own linalool, geraniol, and Myrcene

Uhh, yes, please! While thiols are seriously cool, I'd love to boost those hop oils like myrcene. It would be amazing to get more of those berry, mango and melon flavors.

Side note - HopsDirect have a father's day sale with some good deals.
'21 Columbus - $2.57/8oz. This is practically theft.
'21 Motueka - $8/8oz
'21 Nelson - $9.75/8oz

 

[Beenym88]

Just wanted to share a few things back to back.

This past Wednesday, my Homebrew club (The Albany Brew Crafters) was fortunate enough to have Omega yeast give us a presentation on bioengineered yeast, which genes they select, the process of hybridizing, exactly what their strains can do, and projects currently in RD and trials. The coolest part is that Lance Shaner himself gave us the presentation.

Anywho some fun facts from the presentation.

1) The gene that thiolizes actually comes from a bacteria that lives in our armpits, behind our knees, and in the nether regions lol. They are responsible for body odor, which is actually a Thiol very related to the hop Thiol 4mhp, hence why sometimes you get BO/cat piss from certain hop varieties.

2) Cosmic Punch has the bio availability to release thiols to 10x the sensory threshold, but Starparty far exceeds that at 300x the threshold

3) mash hoping can up the Thiol production between 2-5x the threshold. He suggested mashhopping is beneficial for cosmic punch, but not necessary for starparty.

4) they currently have trials going at some big name breweries using a thiolized Lager Strain

5) they are working on a “hazy” strain that will up the Thiol releasing to 300x just as starparty does. Moreover the strain is also cable of making its own linalool, geraniol, and Myrcene

6) lance highly suggested making a simple blonde ale using starparty so you can see how efficient it is and the profile it creates

It was one of the best things I’ve attended. Great experience.

The cosmic punch yeast is amazing at my brewery we’re only dry hopping at a pound per barrel using it and there is so much aroma and flavore

 

[Jimmy_Hops]

Thanks man! I don't think that Ive posted this hop schedule before but I will say its "trilliumesque" i.e. congress street style (which is still one of my favorites from trillium. So its primarily Columbus on the hot side with primarily galaxy on the cold side dry hop. While I have done this hop combo several times, Ive always tweaked it and this latest one is my favorite.

Boil: All Columbus - 0.75oz @15min, 0.5oz @10min, 0.5oz @5min
WP: All at 155F - 1.5oz Columbus Lupomax for 45min, 1.5oz Columbus & 1.0oz Galaxy for 30min.
DH1: 1.5oz Columbus Lupomax, 3.0oz Galaxy
DH2: 4.0oz Galaxy

*DH2 is 24 hrs after DH1. I soft crash to 53F for ~36hrs and then do DHs. I typically start hard crash to 38F 24hrs post DH2 and hold until kegging. So essentially Im kegging ~4-5days (depending on my life schedule) after the first DH.

I absolutely LOVE Columbus and Columbus Lupomax is the bomb. Columbus, for me, gives "authentic" fresh hop out of the bag vibe and adds nice dank/resin with grapefruit balance to the intense sweet fruit/passionfruit citrus that galaxy gives. So they balance each other out VERY well resulting in a multi-dimensionally hopped beer experience. I THINK trillium goes exclusively with Columbus on hot side and galaxy on cold side for congress street but not for sure. But when I tasted the sample pre-dryhop, with a touch of galaxy on hot side and mostly all Columbus, the flavor is fantastic as the galaxy balances the dankness/fresh earthy hop that Columbus gives. This hop combo IMHO reminds me of a magical "Sweet & Sour" asian mixture. They balance each other VERY well.

Cheers!

Going with @Noob_Brewer hopping schedule for today’s unscheduled brew day. I have a ton of Columbus and Columbus Lupomax and got a pound of Galaxy a couple months ago from the YVH hop sale. My homebrew shop was out of spelt (and Chit malt which would have been my sub) so I went with white wheat and malted oats. Fermenting with Juice and hoping all turns out well.

 

[Byaka]

I have my NEIPA on its first day of fermentation. I cannot decide on whether to do only 1 DH tomorrow or day after tomorrow or split it into 2 - one during high krausen and one a few days before kegging... Any thoughts? Have you found significant difference between only 1 dry hopping and 2?

I am using WY 1318 yeast and have 8 oz of hops I want to dry hop with: 3 oz Cashmere, 3 oz Citra, 2 oz Strata.

Thank you!

 

[murphyslaw]

Trend here seems to be dry hopping in one charge post-fermentation.

 

[Byaka]

Trend here seems to be dry hopping in one charge post-fermentation.

Jeez... I need a lot of catching up to do then! No "biotransformation" dry hopping on the 2-3rd day of fermentation anymore?

 

[murphyslaw]

Jeez... I need a lot of catching up to do then! No "biotransformation" dry hopping on the 2-3rd day of fermentation anymore?

I'm not yet convinced. Still experimenting myself. But I'd either do half and half or all post-fermentation. I wouldn't do all during active fermentation.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Nope, all post fermentation. Do a soft crash about a week before packaging, dry hop a day or 2 later for 3 days at 55f then cold crash for 2 days and you're good. My opinion. Here's my latest at about 10 days in the keg, poured yesterday. Pic is a little dark, no sun yesterday.

 

[Benson Brewhouse]

Jeez... I need a lot of catching up to do then! No "biotransformation" dry hopping on the 2-3rd day of fermentation anymore?

If you are doing a proper whirlpool the assumption is that there's already a significant amount of hop matter already in suspension for those first few days and biotransformation is happening to a certain degree anyway.

 

[Ulisses4677]

If you are doing a proper whirlpool the assumption is that there's already a significant amount of hop matter already in suspension for those first few days and biotransformation is happening to a certain degree anyway.

Totally agree

 

[Fergal]

High protein malted grain, step mashing, getting a good hot/cold break, transferring as clean as posssible wort from the kettle to the fermenter, and crashing well. This should keep a lot of the foam positive proteins in suspension and leave all of the high molecular weight proteins out.

After that, setting a proper carb level and using the “slow pour method”. it’s used primarily for lagers but If you love foam, you should pour all your beers this way

Hey mate, any chance you can elaborate on the break / clean wort topic a bit. Always a lot of differing views on this and haven't really been able to find any good online articles. Cheers.

 

[HopsAreGood]

The cosmic punch yeast is amazing at my brewery we’re only dry hopping at a pound per barrel using it and there is so much aroma and flavore

What brewery? And are you a brewer there?

 

[Dgallo]

Hey mate, any chance you can elaborate on the break / clean wort topic a bit. Always a lot of differing views on this and haven't really been able to find any good online articles. Cheers.

I start by planning to leave 1.5 gallons in the kettle. I’ll then sift all foam off the top of the wort as it’s heating/starting to boiling. I don’t personally use whirlfloc in my NEIPA but you could. After your knock out and whirlpool, chill as quickly as you can so you get a cold break and your wort is nearly clear. Then try to transfer the clearest wort info your fermenter. This should improve foam and head retention

 

[murphyslaw]

Jeez... I need a lot of catching up to do then! No "biotransformation" dry hopping on the 2-3rd day of fermentation anymore?

Just to touch on this again, Roaring Table, which has won awards for their hazy beers, dry hops during fermentation and afterwards. This morning, I listened to a podcast with the head brewer from Surly who says that for their core hazys, they use two dry hop charges--one at the same time they pitch yeast and the other just before it reaches terminal gravity. I've been reading and listening to the brewer from Wayfarer a bit lately, too, and he dry hops during fermentation.

There are a lot of people here that are heavily influenced by the writings of Scott Janish. And rightfully so. I am one myself. I read all his stuff and occasionally make it out to his brewery. My understanding, and this might be wrong, is that his work sort of sent a lot of the people here on the post-fermentation dry hop route. He certainly planted that idea in my head. But if I remember right, toward the end of his book, he talks about the processes used by a bunch of different breweries and they're all different. Some dry hop during fermentation, some after.

Ultimately, I very strongly believe that there is a huge divergence in what people think NEIPAs are/should be. I still remember the first NEIPA I had--a growler of Haze from their Monson Brewery, opened at a nearby byo bbq place because Treehouse didn't have a license to drink on premises. From that moment, their beers have been cemented in my head as what a NEIPA "should" be (more accurately, what I want in a NEIPA). But there's probably 20 breweries in my area that make NEIPAs and only three that I think are worth emulating. Two of those make NEIPAs that are very different from Treehouse but still delicious (Astrolab & Janish's Sapwood). Other Half dc is the other, which is in line with what I have cemented in my mind of what a NEIPA "should" be (subjectively!).

I've never had NEIPAs from Roaring Table, Surly, or Wayfarer. So I can't say whether their process is more or less likely to achieve what I want than what those here advocate. Its not quite like brewing an American Pale Ale where we all have Sierra Nevada Pale Ale in mind as the traditional example. It makes comparing notes a lot more challenging, IMO. So we've all got to experiment and see for ourselves!

 

[Dgallo]

Just to touch on this again, Roaring Table, which has won awards for their hazy beers, dry hops during fermentation and afterwards. This morning, I listened to a podcast with the head brewer from Surly who says that for their core hazys, they use two dry hop charges--one at the same time they pitch yeast and the other just before it reaches terminal gravity. I've been reading and listening to the brewer from Wayfarer a bit lately, too, and he dry hops during fermentation.

There are a lot of people here that are heavily influenced by the writings of Scott Janish. And rightfully so. I am one myself. I read all his stuff and occasionally make it out to his brewery. My understanding, and this might be wrong, is that his work sort of sent a lot of the people here on the post-fermentation dry hop route. He certainly planted that idea in my head. But if I remember right, toward the end of his book, he talks about the processes used by a bunch of different breweries and they're all different. Some dry hop during fermentation, some after.

Ultimately, I very strongly believe that there is a huge divergence in what people think NEIPAs are/should be. I still remember the first NEIPA I had--a growler of Haze from their Monson Brewery, opened at a nearby byo bbq place because Treehouse didn't have a license to drink on premises. From that moment, their beers have been cemented in my head as what a NEIPA "should" be (more accurately, what I want in a NEIPA). But there's probably 20 breweries in my area that make NEIPAs and only three that I think are worth emulating. Two of those make NEIPAs that are very different from Treehouse but still delicious (Astrolab & Janish's Sapwood). Other Half dc is the other, which is in line with what I have cemented in my mind of what a NEIPA "should" be (subjectively!).

I've never had NEIPAs from Roaring Table, Surly, or Wayfarer. So I can't say whether their process is more or less likely to achieve what I want than what those here advocate. Its not quite like brewing an American Pale Ale where we all have Sierra Nevada Pale Ale in mind as the traditional example. It makes comparing notes a lot more challenging, IMO. So we've all got to experiment and see for ourselves!

Just a reminder that his book came out in 2019 (3 years ago) and his research and processes he discusses from big name breweries were from even before that, assuming it took him atleast the 2 years to write the book so we can assume it’s 5 years or older. Thiols are not discussed and the researched that proved which hop compounds that can actually be biotransformed and the strains that can do it were also not solidified yet.

This is not to claim there is no reason to add hops during active fermentation, as I do know it does create a slightly different character from post. That said a lot of the movement away from it is due to advancements in equipment that allows minimal o2 exposure during dryhoping, that high krausen dryhoping causes hop creep and hop burn, and the accessibility of lupulin concentrated pelleted and other products.

 

[tracer bullet]

This morning, I listened to a podcast with the head brewer from Surly

What podcast was that? I'd like to give it a listen.