New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[HopsAreGood]

I’ve fermented Lutra 3 times now and it’s been exceptionally clean. Ran it at 70/78/85/ and came out lager clean. I actually enjoy it for that reason. Quick turn around pseudo lagers for the summer. I wonder if it was the yeast or the Nelson for you?

In terms of using Columbus, it’s been a hotside go to for me personally for sometime. It helps fill the gaps with that true “hop” characters. Cascade is another one that works well for that.

Regarding your beer, it’s looks great! In your eyes, Was it the musty character that took away from the beer or was it something else? Or was it lacking something you were hoping for?

I’ve used Lutra a bunch of times since it came out, and also the dry version since they put that out as well. A year or two ago I fermented it at 85 a few times and felt it gave really clean character. I’ve done a few with it where I’ve pushed it over 90 and every time I do that I feel like it gets this really grape musk Kind of character that can overpower the hops. It’s not unpleasant or anything but it masks the hop character. It’s my fault for pushing it that high when I know what happens when I do that. There’s another guy in here somewhere who’s had the same experience with it. I think his name is @rtstrider.

Conversely, opshaug from white labs has produced some of my favorite beers I’ve ever made. It’s marketed as a clean/neutral kveik just like Lutra, but in my experience it truly is exceptionally clean. I’ve done a single hop Citra, single hop Sabro,single hop Necteron, and a single hop eclipse and all four of those beers were straight up defined clear hop character. Truly memorable beers for me.

I have two homebrew stores fairly local to me, and only one of them Carries white labs and occasionally has opshaug. When they’re out of it I tend to settle for Lutra when I’m looking for a clean yeast. I don’t really like ordering liquid yeast through the mail.

So overall it’s a fine beer, but it has that slightly overpowering Lutra character that I’ve experienced before. I actually just purchased three packs of opshaug today and will be using them for a few upcoming brews.

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve used Lutra a bunch of times since it came out, and also the dry version since they put that out as well. A year or two ago I fermented it at 85 a few times and felt it gave really clean character. I’ve done a few with it where I’ve pushed it over 90 and every time I do that I feel like it gets this really grape musk Kind of character that can overpower the hops. It’s not unpleasant or anything but it masks the hop character. It’s my fault for pushing it that high when I know what happens when I do that. There’s another guy in here somewhere who’s had the same experience with it. I think his name is @rtstrider.

Conversely, opshaug from white labs has produced some of my favorite beers I’ve ever made. It’s marketed as a clean/neutral kveik just like Lutra, but in my experience it truly is exceptionally clean. I’ve done a single hop Citra, single hop Sabro,single hop Necteron, and a single hop eclipse and all four of those beers were straight up defined clear hop character. Truly memorable beers for me.

I have two homebrew stores fairly local to me, and only one of them Carries white labs and occasionally has opshaug. When they’re out of it I tend to settle for Lutra when I’m looking for a clean yeast. I don’t really like ordering liquid yeast through the mail.

So overall it’s a fine beer, but it has that slightly overpowering Lutra character that I’ve experienced before. I actually just purchased three packs of opshaug today and will be using them for a few upcoming brews.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. Ferm temps can certainly cause big differences. I’ve actually started fermenting juice at lower temps 65ish and feel I get a better ester profile. Certainly something I want to experiment with more to see if there are differnt characters I can pull from my favorite yeast to get a “house” character

 

[crusader1612]

A fair amount of talk on the Columbus hot side here, which is great.

Many will remember the "west coast" recipe i shared previously, it definitely gives these hazy beers a little bit of edge. I' heard alot of talk about guys like trillium using it, which has obviously had a good effect, given their popularity.

and now I'm seeing alot of people pointing out a full Columbus hot side with just fruity hops in the dryhopping process.

this is clever (and probably cheaper).

Given how well my "west coast" turned out and all the chat aorund this, I'd like to add the obvious chat around hops such as cryo etc. so i feel like some columbus with a bit of cryo or lupomax is the key on the hot side.

then just use all your hops on the dryhop side. and i do mean all of them (LOL)

 

[mkh09353]

@HopsAreGood any specific temp you're fermenting Opshaug at to get such a clean character? I've used Lutra several times and it's either been clean and slow (due to fermenting in the high 70's) or fast and grapey (due to fermenting in the 90's). I'd like something fast and clean...

 

[HopsAreGood]

@HopsAreGood any specific temp you're fermenting Opshaug at to get such a clean character? I've used Lutra several times and it's either been clean and slow (due to fermenting in the high 70's) or fast and grapey (due to fermenting in the 90's). I'd like something fast and clean...

I’ve done both 85 and 90 and I can’t really tell a difference. The finished beers have virtually zero yeast character to my pallet. The last few times I’ve been holding it at 90 and I’ve been very pleased with the results.

I should also add I use twice the recommended amount of yeast nutrient, and I pitch the entire pack…no starter and no intentional under pitch.

One thing that is a little weird is the attenuation. It’s listed at 70-80% which is a wide gap. I’ve had it finish at 70, 80 and in between..so it’s maybe a little unpredictable.

 

[secretlevel]

@HopsAreGood any specific temp you're fermenting Opshaug at to get such a clean character? I've used Lutra several times and it's either been clean and slow (due to fermenting in the high 70's) or fast and grapey (due to fermenting in the 90's). I'd like something fast and clean...

That's pretty interesting results with Lutra, I'm wondering if loading up the whirlpool with a bunch of thiol precursors is making Lutra interact with them to cause a big grapey note in final beer. Grapey and musky flavors are the ones that I got most of when brewing with Cosmic Punch and not adding any hops in the whirlpool or dry hop...

On a side note, my buddy submitted his Lutra pilsner to a local comp and got 40 points, he usually runs it at 80F+ ambient. I don't know if he quite gets to 90F. I didn't get much grape, and neither did the judges. Not to be rude in any way, just an interesting observation.

Something Laura Burns (Omega Yeast) mentioned in the last CB&B episode is that Kveik Voss tends to change in flavor after about 2 weeks if you ferment really hot. She said that Lutra is pretty clean either way, but I wonder if these beers will mellow over time as the yeast cleans up and drops out.

 

[murphyslaw]

]It’s crazy how recently there’s been all this talk of Columbus hot side, and now Nelson/citra. I brewed this beer 15 days ago and used 4 ounces of Columbus lupomax hot side, and the DryHop was 6 ounces of Nelson and 4 ounces of citra lupomax. It was a bit of an experiment in which I was trying to push it quickly from start to finish, for no real specific reason. I used the dried version of Lutra from Omega and fermented it at 92°. It was done in three days, I then removed the heat and let it come down to room temp over the period of one day. I then soft crashed it to 58 for one day, transferred it and dry hopped it for 24 hours, then chilled and carbed it. From grain to glass in seven days, and it’s now been sitting in the keg for eight days. It’s definitely pretty tasty but not my favorite beer I’ve ever made. I feel like the Lutra has a kind of musky grape type thing that should pair well with Nelson, but I feel like it’s slightly overpowering it. Maybe it’ll continue to evolve with some more time but it’s pretty good nonetheless.

View attachment 769321
View attachment 769322

Looks great.

Are you serving from the same keg that you dry hop in? Or does your process utilize 3 kegs (fermentation, dry hop, serve)?

 

[leonm987]

Here is my latest one using Pacifica and Rakau hops which i’ve not used before. Also a nice DH of Citra and good whack of Vienna malt for a change (1.5kg). With Verdant yeast. Only been in the keg a few days so still young but bloody lovely.

 

[Andre3000]

Well I brewed exactly what I referred to in that post today:
OG 1.059
FG 1.012 (expected)
6% ABV

72% Weyermann pils
11% Malted oats
11% White wheat
5% Golden naked oats
2% Acidulated

75min mash at ~150F

WP 4:2 Citra:Nectaron @ 170F
DH chamber loaded with 2:6 Citra:Nectaron.

Pitched Escarpment Foggy London and it's already chugging along at 65F. Hoping to keep esters down a bit to showcase the hops more.

Will let you know how it turns out.

Well, here's my Nectaron beer:

Honestly, this beer is super bizarre. In the words of my GF who is really honest about my beers, "it's not bad, it's just different". Look at the color. The aroma is fantastic. But the taste? Hmm. Weyermann Pilsner was a last minute choice. I think it was the wrong choice. I will not be using it for NEIPAs again. The mouth feel is off a bit. You get this nice crackery pilsner note after the hops fade, which is nice, but out of place for this style. It almost tastes like an American Ale NEIPA but pilsnery.

And that's how I used my Nectaron hops .

 

[Dgallo]

Well, here's my Nectaron beer:

View attachment 769781

Honestly, this beer is super bizarre. In the words of my GF who is really honest about my beers, "it's not bad, it's just different". Look at the color. The aroma is fantastic. But the taste? Hmm. Weyermann Pilsner was a last minute choice. I think it was the wrong choice. I will not be using it for NEIPAs again. The mouth feel is off a bit. You get this nice crackery pilsner note after the hops fade, which is nice, but out of place for this style. It almost tastes like an American Ale NEIPA but pilsnery.

And that's how I used my Nectaron hops .

*

 

[R.A.I.D]

I am wondering why my last beer tastes so strange... It is first time I have 22% spelt malt. How would that affect the taste compared to having 22% wheat malt?

67% Pale
22% spelt malt
11% oat malt

 

[Dgallo]

I am wondering why my last beer tastes so strange... It is first time I have 22% spelt malt. How would that affect the taste compared to having 22% wheat malt?

67% Pale
22% spelt malt
11% oat malt

Spelt has a character like wheat with a little more nuttyness. If that’s what your tasting then it’s the spelt

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Anybody use any Artisan Hops? I usually order mine from Yakima Valley, but I found they have Nectaron in stock here: Nectaron® Hops (Pellets) | MoreBeer

I get hops from YVH most often, but I do order some from Morebeer now & then since I get most of my supplies and grain there. I've found their hops to be good quality. More than once I've been brewing with a mix of Morebeer hops and YVH and the Artisan/Morebeer smelled much better out of the bag.

 

[Garage12brewing]

One of the best double NEIPA I made... need to share the recipe... Used Escarpement labs Hydra yeast.

 

[chuckeg15]

Brewing with Nectaron for the first time on Saturday. I have a ton of hops, but thinking of pairing it with Idaho 7 and another hop (citra, galaxy, mosaic, or riwaka).

Plan is to use a small amount of home grown Columbus in the boil (this is something I pretty much always do) and I love Idaho 7 in the whirlpool.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

BTW, the recent Craft Beer and Brewing podcast has an interview with Beth May and Lane Fearing of Roaring Table (who I think won a medal recently with their "Tuba Solo" hazy). They touched on a few concepts that I have not heard discussed much (like using salts other than Calcium Chloride to keep Calcium values low, low fermentation temps with Omega British Ale V, and a few others).

https://beerandbrewing.com/podcast-...le-brews-for-elegance-simplicity-and-texture/

 

[R.A.I.D]

Spelt has a character like wheat with a little more nuttyness. If that’s what your tasting then it’s the spelt

I think it is nuttyness. I will switch back to wheat malt next time.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Super simple grist of mostly 2-row with a touch of oats and wheat. 6.5% ABV, and hopped only with Nectaron. 2 ounces at 10, 4 ounces in Whirlpool, and 10 ounces in the dry hop. Dry hopped at 58° for 24 hours In a DryHop keg after soft crashing and dropping yeast, and roused it five times during those 24 hours. Then crashed it down to 34° for 72 hours, and jumped it into a liquid purge serving keg. Nectaron is amazing. It really is my favorite hop. It’s like a perfect mix of dank, spicy, fruity, and diesely, but all in such a pleasant way. None of those characteristics dominate or overpower the others, and they all just seem to meld perfectly together. It’s kind of like in between Nelson and galaxy in a somewhat indescribable way. If you haven’t had a chance to brew with it I highly recommend it.

View attachment 766579

Curious as to what you aimed for in terms of your FG for this 6.5% beer?

 

[wepeeler]

]It’s crazy how recently there’s been all this talk of Columbus hot side, and now Nelson/citra. I brewed this beer 15 days ago and used 4 ounces of Columbus lupomax hot side, and the DryHop was 6 ounces of Nelson and 4 ounces of citra lupomax. It was a bit of an experiment in which I was trying to push it quickly from start to finish, for no real specific reason. I used the dried version of Lutra from Omega and fermented it at 92°. It was done in three days, I then removed the heat and let it come down to room temp over the period of one day. I then soft crashed it to 58 for one day, transferred it and dry hopped it for 24 hours, then chilled and carbed it. From grain to glass in seven days, and it’s now been sitting in the keg for eight days. It’s definitely pretty tasty but not my favorite beer I’ve ever made. I feel like the Lutra has a kind of musky grape type thing that should pair well with Nelson, but I feel like it’s slightly overpowering it. Maybe it’ll continue to evolve with some more time but it’s pretty good nonetheless.

View attachment 769321
View attachment 769322

Use Lutra for lighter beers. I made a "German Pils-ish" turned "American Pils-ish" with Lutra, and it turned out fantastic.

 

[crusader1612]

Well, here's my Nectaron beer:

View attachment 769781

Honestly, this beer is super bizarre. In the words of my GF who is really honest about my beers, "it's not bad, it's just different". Look at the color. The aroma is fantastic. But the taste? Hmm. Weyermann Pilsner was a last minute choice. I think it was the wrong choice. I will not be using it for NEIPAs again. The mouth feel is off a bit. You get this nice crackery pilsner note after the hops fade, which is nice, but out of place for this style. It almost tastes like an American Ale NEIPA but pilsnery.

And that's how I used my Nectaron hops .

The beer looks kind of washed out. Now I don't know your processes or anything, but if i was to hazard a guess at your issue, it would be either oxidation, or a fermentation flaw of some kind.

This is because nectaron, is one of the best new hops i've tried (i live in New Zealand), and having been a guines pig for in in the past, i can attest to its ability to stick with hops like citra, galaxy & mosaic.

have a look at your processes, and taste the beer (i suggest downloading a BJCP sheet, to see if you can taste any of the off-flavours present. oxidation in these beers can be quick to take hold, so its your most likely source of issue.

 

[ihavenonickname]

BTW, the recent Craft Beer and Brewing podcast has an interview with Beth May and Lane Fearing of Roaring Table (who I think won a medal recently with their "Tuba Solo" hazy). They touched on a few concepts that I have not heard discussed much (like using salts other than Calcium Chloride to keep Calcium values low, low fermentation temps with Omega British Ale V, and a few others).

https://beerandbrewing.com/podcast-...le-brews-for-elegance-simplicity-and-texture/

Very cool, tuba solo has won a bunch of awards, though I haven’t tried it. He mentions using KCl and a water profile of Ca 40, Cl 200, So4 40, low Na, low Mg and K of 40 ppm. Interesting profile I think I’ll give it a shot! That went along with 10-15% adjuncts and a FG of 5 Plato.
He also mentioned pushing Na up to 80 or higher in a pils, interesting!

Edit numbers

 

[HopsAreGood]

Curious as to what you aimed for in terms of your FG for this 6.5% beer?

This one actually finished at 1.020. Higher than I’d hoped but I really enjoyed it.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Very cool, tuba solo has won a bunch of awards, though I haven’t tried it. He mentions using KCl and a water profile of Ca 40, Cl 200, So4 40, low Na, low Mg and K of 40 ppm. Interesting profile I think I’ll give it a shot! That went along with 10-15% adjuncts and a FG of 5 Plato.
He also mentioned pushing Na up to 80 or higher in a pils, interesting!

Edit numbers

Ive seen people talk about the idea of keeping the calcium low in the mash but never really made a point to try it. I just ordered some food grade potassium chloride from Amazon and I’m going to try this in my next beer. Going to shoot for those exact numbers.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Sorry I haven't read any new papers on this subject but what is the purpose of trying to keep CA low? It's my understanding that calcium content in the mash is important, so is there a ceiling we hit with this style and the water we try to achieve.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Sorry I haven't read any new papers on this subject but what is the purpose of trying to keep CA low? It's my understanding that calcium content in the mash is important, so is there a ceiling we hit with this style and the water we try to achieve.

The brewer in the podcast believes that lowering the calcium has improved the mouthfeel of his hazy IPAs. In his opinion too much calcium makes the beer chalky, but he still wants the chloride high. So he subs in potassium chloride to keep the chloride up but calcium lower. He doesn’t eliminate calcium, just much lower than most people usually start with. He talks quite in depth about water and his personal preferences and experiences manipulating it. It’s a very good listen.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

This one actually finished at 1.020. Higher than I’d hoped but I really enjoyed it.

Wow that is a little higher than I expected. I just looked the opshaug yeast up and the attenuation profile is very wide range - 69-80%. Glad it worked out well for ya anyways. Anyhow, on Sunday I finally pulled the trigger and did my own single hopped NEIPA. Typically with single hopped beers Ive been liking @Dgallo single hop pale ale recipe, but decided to deviate from that and make it more like the NEIPAs we all like. I used US05 yeast and ended up targeting 1.015 for FG in a beer expected to be ~6.6-6.8%. Used some of my Nectaron as the hop. Ive use it many times before in combination with others but never went the single hop route. We will see how it turns out. Haven't done a "lower" ABV NEIPA in a long while anyways lol.

 

[wepeeler]

MAJOR hop sale at Yakima Valley Hops if anyone is interested.

 

[secretlevel]

Wow that is a little higher than I expected. I just looked the opshaug yeast up and the attenuation profile is very wide range - 69-80%. Glad it worked out well for ya anyways. Anyhow, on Sunday I finally pulled the trigger and did my own single hopped NEIPA. Typically with single hopped beers Ive been liking @Dgallo single hop pale ale recipe, but decided to deviate from that and make it more like the NEIPAs we all like. I used US05 yeast and ended up targeting 1.015 for FG in a beer expected to be ~6.6-6.8%. Used some of my Nectaron as the hop. Ive use it many times before in combination with others but never went the single hop route. We will see how it turns out. Haven't done a "lower" ABV NEIPA in a long while anyways lol.

That's a fun experiment! Do you go for a west coast IBU range or still using a NEIPA hopping schedule with a cleaner base?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

The brewer in the podcast believes that lowering the calcium has improved the mouthfeel of his hazy IPAs. In his opinion too much calcium makes the beer chalky, but he still wants the chloride high. So he subs in potassium chloride to keep the chloride up but calcium lower. He doesn’t eliminate calcium, just much lower than most people usually start with. He talks quite in depth about water and his personal preferences and experiences manipulating it. It’s a very good listen.

Makes sense when you put it that way, I build my water off my private well with ward labs report, I think lately my CA has been around 80ppm, I don't get a chalkiness if that's a word haha, but I probably wouldn't go any higher with it either though I don't think 80 is near the threshold where its noticeable in my opinion. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to get some KCL and aim for CA of 40.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

That's a fun experiment! Do you go for a west coast IBU range or still using a NEIPA hopping schedule with a cleaner base?

Yeah I’m still using NEIPA hopping schedule. All boil additions were later in boil though 20, 10, and 5min. I’ve grown fond of later boil hop additions personally