New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[R.A.I.D]

I personally haven’t used nectron since it’s been 4337 so I won’t be much help here. The Nelson I have from last year is very potent. That said, if I were doing this for the first time, I would do 2:1 Ratio nectron to nelson

@HopsAreGood tried that combo back in 2021:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/post-9074797

 

[HopsAreGood]

@HopsAreGood tried that combo back in 2021:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/post-9074797

Yeah, that beer was awesome. Really liked that one. I actually just dropped 10 ounces of Nectaron into a 6.5% beer about an hour ago. Going to dry hop for 48 hours at 58, then crash and transfer.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I got some of the nectaron also, haven't started thinking about what to pair it with til now. I'll probably use citra or mosaic hotside, maybe some Idaho7 as well, nectaron in the whirlpool and then heavy in the dryhop, paired with something just not sure yet. I wont be brewing that batch for a few weeks so I got time to think/dream about it.

 

[secretlevel]

Hey guys, so I've been thinking about Imperial A20 and had some interesting thoughts. I love A24, but I just don't know how much flavor Conan part contributes there. Conan beers like my local Vermont IPA's and Alchemist beers aren't exactly ester-forward IMO. There may be some peach in Focal Banger, but it's very subtle and almost clean. This would imply that most of those tropical esters are coming from A20, right?

My one big problem with A24 is the composition shift if I harvest it, as I do with most of my strains. Has anyone brewed with A20?

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’ve used the white labs version of sach trois - incredibly fruity with pineapple and citrus. Also had a commercial example called “trois story” locally. It’s delicious, a fruity crowd pleaser - but it’s a distinct fruity funky flavor that I thought lacked a little beer flavor balance. Certainly worth a trial.

 

[Dgallo]

View attachment 765897

I found a20 alone only citrus forward. No stone fruit. It also produce a thinner beer than the blend as the STA1 gene has more of a noticeable effect. All that said I it’s very good. Might be interesting to make your own blend with it and something with less attenuation like LAIII

 

[secretlevel]

I found a20 alone only citrus forward. No stone fruit. It also produce a thinner beer than the blend as the STA1 gene has more of a noticeable effect. All that said I it’s very good. Might be interesting to make your own blend with it and something with less attenuation like LAIII

Sweet, thanks guys! I'm definitely planning on mashing around 155-156F to finish in a true NEIPA fashion. Will report back soon.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Hey guys, so I've been thinking about Imperial A20 and had some interesting thoughts. I love A24, but I just don't know how much flavor Conan part contributes there. Conan beers like my local Vermont IPA's and Alchemist beers aren't exactly ester-forward. There may be some peach in Focal Banger, but it's very subtle and almost clean. This would imply that most of those tropical esters are coming from A20, right?

My one big problem with A24 is the composition shift if I harvest it, as I do with most of my strains.

I overbuild my liquid starters and harvest on the front of brewing instead of from the fermenter. I am fine with using a little extra DME to accomplish this as I just like the simplicity and ease better than harvesting after the fact from a fermenter that has trub, yeast, and hops in it. Ive never done it though. I am pretty confident that with 3 generations of A24 harvested from overbuilt starters you would never notice the difference in the final product. I would also say that performance during fermentation is roughly equivalent too. The key is when harvesting from overbuilt starters is to make sure when you take the flask off the stir plate, to keep it moving constantly until you harvest to mason jars for storing. At least in my mind its important because it keeps the starter as homogenous as possible. I have never tried to push the envelope in how many generations I can go before you see/detect a noticeable difference in the yeast since it is a blend after all. But again, I think that if you harvest on the front end of this, A24is solid for 3 generations.

When you harvest it on the back end, do you notice a difference in fermentation performance and/or the overall beer even if just comparing a fresh pack vs 2nd generation?

 

[Fergal]

I want to talk about hot side aeration in these beers and I think this group of brewers is a rare group that has high standards for them. I recently changed brew systems to a Brewtools B40pro and its sweet in so many way BUT its mash recirculation is designed to splash the heck out of the mash and sparge and I'm starting to get bummed about it. Mash works like this:View attachment 765760

I just tapped my most recent Hazy (first beer on this new system) and I'm not pleased with the appearance at all. Here it is under different lighting:
View attachment 765761View attachment 765762
This beer used 2-row and some golden promise used cosmic punch (first use as well) calcluated SRM 4.8

Here are my previous hazies for reference, various recipes with different calculated SRM was 5.6 (used some pilsner and some dried wheat extract, verdant) or SRM 3.9 in another one
View attachment 765763 orView attachment 765764

I feel quite confident this is not a cold side issue as that has stayed consistent with closed transfers, pressure crashing etc. and this darker beer looked like this from the very early samples.

So what do you think? I want to blame hot side aeration mucking up my color, but its certainly possible there are too many variables at play here for anyone to say. Anyone have use a similar system (that certainly oxidizes on the hot side mash) but is able to still get that nice bright yellow color?

Someone mentioned it before, but I would look at the boil intensity. Not sure on the watt density on the Brewtools system but I would imagine having those coils in direct contact with the wort might increase the maillard/caramelization a bit? Maybe a shorter boil might help?

 

[wepeeler]

I overbuild my liquid starters and harvest on the front of brewing instead of from the fermenter. I am fine with using a little extra DME to accomplish this as I just like the simplicity and ease better than harvesting after the fact from a fermenter that has trub, yeast, and hops in it. Ive never done it though. I am pretty confident that with 3 generations of A24 harvested from overbuilt starters you would never notice the difference in the final product. I would also say that performance during fermentation is roughly equivalent too. The key is when harvesting from overbuilt starters is to make sure when you take the flask off the stir plate, to keep it moving constantly until you harvest to mason jars for storing. At least in my mind its important because it keeps the starter as homogenous as possible. I have never tried to push the envelope in how many generations I can go before you see/detect a noticeable difference in the yeast since it is a blend after all. But again, I think that if you harvest on the front end of this, A24is solid for 3 generations.

When you harvest it on the back end, do you notice a difference in fermentation performance and/or the overall beer even if just comparing a fresh pack vs 2nd generation?

I do the same thing for nearly all my yeasts when harvesting. I use 20oz plastic soda bottles with a screw on cap. I barely turn the cap and stick in the fridge for a few days. You want the top to vent, as a buildup of CO2 can damage the yeast. After a few days of cold crashing you can either just screw the cap on tightly or decant the liquid first and then screw on the top. Been doing this for a few years now and haven't run into issues. I've gone as far as 5 generations without seeing a major difference in performance. The only difference is clarity in final product, but that's more an issue of certain yeast strains than harvesting issues ie Wyeast 2565 is notorious for not floccing in later generations.

 

[secretlevel]

I overbuild my liquid starters and harvest on the front of brewing instead of from the fermenter. I am fine with using a little extra DME to accomplish this as I just like the simplicity and ease better than harvesting after the fact from a fermenter that has trub, yeast, and hops in it. Ive never done it though. I am pretty confident that with 3 generations of A24 harvested from overbuilt starters you would never notice the difference in the final product. I would also say that performance during fermentation is roughly equivalent too. The key is when harvesting from overbuilt starters is to make sure when you take the flask off the stir plate, to keep it moving constantly until you harvest to mason jars for storing. At least in my mind its important because it keeps the starter as homogenous as possible. I have never tried to push the envelope in how many generations I can go before you see/detect a noticeable difference in the yeast since it is a blend after all. But again, I think that if you harvest on the front end of this, A24is solid for 3 generations.

When you harvest it on the back end, do you notice a difference in fermentation performance and/or the overall beer even if just comparing a fresh pack vs 2nd generation?

This is a pretty good strategy, thanks, friend. I usually overbuild, but then cold crash the starter and decant. I think the decanting is what's been making the difference for me as the "beer" in the starter is still somewhat hazy when I decant it after 48 hours, I imagine that's A20 struggling to flocculate while the Conan has already dropped out.

After the first generation I always notice a less punchy ester profile, although it could just be all in my head... I'll definitely use your method next time for A24.

 

[wepeeler]

Trying out White Labs Burlington Ale yeast for the first time.

This yeast is the signature strain for a brewery in the Northeast United States, making it ideal for New England-style IPAs.


10# 2 Row
2# Oat Malt
2# White Wheat
1# Carafoam

Citra:Amarillo 50/50

Was my tried a true grist for awhile, but I've moved onto Mecca Grade for my neipas. Deep orange color, and I really like the malt flavor. I grabbed this grist at my local HB shop, as they're closing in a month

 

[wepeeler]

The yeast was steady bubbling 3 1/2 hours after pitching! Dropped 5 points in 7 hours, if I trust the Tilt.

 

[LumberZach]

The yeast was steady bubbling 3 1/2 hours after pitching! Dropped 5 points in 7 hours, if I trust the Tilt.

I trust my Tilt until the krausen really kicks up. Then I trust it again after the krausen drops.

 

[wepeeler]

I trust my Tilt until the krausen really kicks up. Then I trust it again after the krausen drops.

I use it for starting activity and trends, mostly. Definitely get funky readings during high krausen!

 

[HopsAreGood]

Super simple grist of mostly 2-row with a touch of oats and wheat. 6.5% ABV, and hopped only with Nectaron. 2 ounces at 10, 4 ounces in Whirlpool, and 10 ounces in the dry hop. Dry hopped at 58° for 24 hours In a DryHop keg after soft crashing and dropping yeast, and roused it five times during those 24 hours. Then crashed it down to 34° for 72 hours, and jumped it into a liquid purge serving keg. Nectaron is amazing. It really is my favorite hop. It’s like a perfect mix of dank, spicy, fruity, and diesely, but all in such a pleasant way. None of those characteristics dominate or overpower the others, and they all just seem to meld perfectly together. It’s kind of like in between Nelson and galaxy in a somewhat indescribable way. If you haven’t had a chance to brew with it I highly recommend it.

 

[Dgallo]

Super simple grist of mostly 2-row with a touch of oats and wheat. 6.5% ABV, and hopped only with Nectaron. 2 ounces at 10, 4 ounces in Whirlpool, and 10 ounces in the dry hop. Dry hopped at 58° for 24 hours In a DryHop keg after soft crashing and dropping yeast, and roused it five times during those 24 hours. Then crashed it down to 34° for 72 hours, and jumped it into a liquid purge serving keg. Nectaron is amazing. It really is my favorite hop. It’s like a perfect mix of dank, spicy, fruity, and diesely, but all in such a pleasant way. None of those characteristics dominate or overpower the others, and they all just seem to meld perfectly together. It’s kind of like in between Nelson and galaxy in a somewhat indescribable way. If you haven’t had a chance to brew with it I highly recommend it.

View attachment 766579

Looks great man. Glad to see a solo nectron NEIPA, def proves at a high hop rate, there’s nothing strange in the character. I heard through an industry guy that nectron is going to be difficult to get again this upcoming harvest in a month or so. Hopefully he is incorrect. I’m hoping to do quite a bit with it next year

 

[HopsAreGood]

Looks great man. Glad to see a solo nectron NEIPA, def proves at a high hop rate, there’s nothing strange in the character. I heard through an industry guy that nectron is going to be difficult to get again this upcoming harvest in a month or so. Hopefully he is incorrect. I’m hoping to do quite a bit with it next year

I have a feeling it’s going to be very difficult to get. It’s definitely going to explode in popularity. They’re probably gonna totally ramp up the acreage and go through some of the growing pains like they did with galaxy, (or any other hop for that matter) but hopefully it won’t be too bad getting absolute garbage Nectaron. We’ll see though, but it’s definitely a phenomenal hop.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Super simple grist of mostly 2-row with a touch of oats and wheat. 6.5% ABV, and hopped only with Nectaron. 2 ounces at 10, 4 ounces in Whirlpool, and 10 ounces in the dry hop. Dry hopped at 58° for 24 hours In a DryHop keg after soft crashing and dropping yeast, and roused it five times during those 24 hours. Then crashed it down to 34° for 72 hours, and jumped it into a liquid purge serving keg. Nectaron is amazing. It really is my favorite hop. It’s like a perfect mix of dank, spicy, fruity, and diesely, but all in such a pleasant way. None of those characteristics dominate or overpower the others, and they all just seem to meld perfectly together. It’s kind of like in between Nelson and galaxy in a somewhat indescribable way. If you haven’t had a chance to brew with it I highly recommend it.

View attachment 766579

Looks great @HopsAreGood ! I have never dry hopped that much for 6.5% myself. Ive done 10oz but thats been for 7.5-8.5% beers. Been thinking of trying a single hop NEIPA with what I have of Nectaron (20oz) as well but haven't pulled the trigger. Id hate to pop a chub over a great beer only to know that I won't be getting it in the next year due to unavailability lol.

EDIT: what yeast did ya use for this one? Still doing the dry yeast blending?

 

[HopsAreGood]

Looks great @HopsAreGood ! I have never dry hopped that much for 6.5% myself. Ive done 10oz but thats been for 7.5-8.5% beers. Been thinking of trying a single hop NEIPA with what I have of Nectaron (20oz) as well but haven't pulled the trigger. Id hate to pop a chub over a great beer only to know that I won't be getting it in the next year due to unavailability lol.

EDIT: what yeast did ya use for this one? Still doing the dry yeast blending?

For this one I actually used white labs opshaug. It’s a lesser known kveik that is verrry clean. To me it imparts zero yeast character whatsoever and let’s the hops and malt come through crystal clear. I like to use it when I’m doing single hop beers to really get a feel for what a given hop brings to the table.

In terms of yeast blending, I’ve pretty much settled in on using verdant by itself for the most part. I really like it, its simple to use, and has become very predictable for me. The lallemand pitch rate calculator is awesome as well.

 

[wepeeler]

Super simple grist of mostly 2-row with a touch of oats and wheat. 6.5% ABV, and hopped only with Nectaron. 2 ounces at 10, 4 ounces in Whirlpool, and 10 ounces in the dry hop. Dry hopped at 58° for 24 hours In a DryHop keg after soft crashing and dropping yeast, and roused it five times during those 24 hours. Then crashed it down to 34° for 72 hours, and jumped it into a liquid purge serving keg. Nectaron is amazing. It really is my favorite hop. It’s like a perfect mix of dank, spicy, fruity, and diesely, but all in such a pleasant way. None of those characteristics dominate or overpower the others, and they all just seem to meld perfectly together. It’s kind of like in between Nelson and galaxy in a somewhat indescribable way. If you haven’t had a chance to brew with it I highly recommend it.

View attachment 766579

Looks great. Might have to give that hop a whirl. Been crushing Simcoe lately.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

For this one I actually used white labs opshaug. It’s a lesser known kveik that is verrry clean. To me it imparts zero yeast character whatsoever and let’s the hops and malt come through crystal clear. I like to use it when I’m doing single hop beers to really get a feel for what a given hop brings to the table.

In terms of yeast blending, I’ve pretty much settled in on using verdant by itself for the most part. I really like it, its simple to use, and has become very predictable for me. The lallemand pitch rate calculator is awesome as well.

Never used opshaug before and Ive read similar to how you describe. I like the idea of a clean yeast for these single hopped beers as well. As for Verdant IPA, Im actually using it for the first time right now. Ive used Imperial Juice but not LAIII. I gotta say it was a monster for the first 48hrs and today is day three and it slowed to a crawl with that bigass yeasty krausen left. Behaving similar to Juice for me. Hoping that krausen doesn't want to hang around toooo long lol.

By "predictable" what kind of attenuation you normally get? Were you referring to something else by "predictable" or just generalizing its performance and flavor/aroma overall. I hate the Lallemand website doesn't give numbers it just says "medium to high" attenuation. For first timers, I like to see some darn numbers to plan accordingly. Anyhow I ended up using the calculator from Lallemand I pitched 17grams. The only issue is that this bad boy blew out about a quart on the massive blowoff, lol. Im thinking - thats less yeast in the fermenter to finish the job! lol. We will see how it works out.

 

[muddy1015]

It looks like morebeer has Nectaron in stock, albeit for *$45* per pound

https://www.morebeer.com/products/nectaron-hops-pellets.html?variant=HNZNEC5LB

 

[DrGMG]

I love Opshaug for IPAs, but I got a culture form Norway I believe, years ago.

 

[R.A.I.D]

You can find the numbers here:
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp...LAL-bestpractices-IPA_Solutions_digital-T.pdf
Lallemand New England attenuation: 81.2
Lallemand Verdant attenuation: 78.3

For the readers in EU: You can buy Nectaron 2021 crop here. They ship to EU.
https://humlegarden.dk/humle/new-zealand/nectaron-4337-100-g

 

[hopfenstopfen]

Speaking of clean-ish yeasts, don’t believe I’ve seen a mention of Omega’s thiolized Chico strain on here yet. Guess it was just released.

Introducing Star Party

 

[Dgallo]

Speaking of clean-ish yeasts, don’t believe I’ve seen a mention of Omega’s thiolized Chico strain on here yet. Guess it was just released.

Introducing Star Party

I believe its only been available about 14 day or so (maybe even less). Pretty certain @secretlevel just pitched it in a West Coast IPA. I'm looking to use it in my Hoppy Red Ale recipe

 

[HopsAreGood]

Never used opshaug before and Ive read similar to how you describe. I like the idea of a clean yeast for these single hopped beers as well. As for Verdant IPA, Im actually using it for the first time right now. Ive used Imperial Juice but not LAIII. I gotta say it was a monster for the first 48hrs and today is day three and it slowed to a crawl with that bigass yeasty krausen left. Behaving similar to Juice for me. Hoping that krausen doesn't want to hang around toooo long lol.

By "predictable" what kind of attenuation you normally get? Were you referring to something else by "predictable" or just generalizing its performance and flavor/aroma overall. I hate the Lallemand website doesn't give numbers it just says "medium to high" attenuation. For first timers, I like to see some darn numbers to plan accordingly. Anyhow I ended up using the calculator from Lallemand I pitched 17grams. The only issue is that this bad boy blew out about a quart on the massive blowoff, lol. Im thinking - thats less yeast in the fermenter to finish the job! lol. We will see how it works out.

By predictable I pretty much just mean everything about it. If you’ve used juice/LA three Then it behaves similarly. Initially I was getting a lot of under attenuation, so I started mashing a lot lower when using it. I’m at around 150 or sometimes 152 with it and have been getting between 76 to 79% attenuation.

It does start very fast and goes crazy for about the first 48 hours. After these first 48 hours is when the Krausen really starts to crawl and you have to watch it. Sometimes I have to open the lid and knock it down a little bit, and other times it stops just shy of me needing to do something to it. As soon as it starts to slow down from its initial craziness, I bump the temp up to 72 which I feel helps it to attenuate a little bit better. And then just hold it at 72 for the duration of fermentation.

It typically bubbles away for a few more days and the krausen is typically fully dropped by day five. I actually have one going right now with it and it’s behaved exactly how I just described.

When I use the lallemand pitch calculator, I typically round up about 1 g. For this current beer I have going right now they recommend at 18.1 g and I gave it 19. I love the fact that I don’t have to worry about starters or yeast viability, cell count, etc.

To me the finished product is very similar to juice or LA three. It has a little bit of its own character that I quite like and have been using it pretty consistently for a while now.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

By predictable I pretty much just mean everything about it. If you’ve used juice/LA three Then it behaves similarly. Initially I was getting a lot of under attenuation, so I started mashing a lot lower when using it. I’m at around 150 or sometimes 152 with it and have been getting between 76 to 79% attenuation.

It does start very fast and goes crazy for about the first 48 hours. After these first 48 hours is when the Krausen really starts to crawl and you have to watch it. Sometimes I have to open the lid and knock it down a little bit, and other times it stops just shy of me needing to do something to it. As soon as it starts to slow down from its initial craziness, I bump the temp up to 72 which I feel helps it to attenuate a little bit better. And then just hold it at 72 for the duration of fermentation.

It typically bubbles away for a few more days and the krausen is typically fully dropped by day five. I actually have one going right now with it and it’s behaved exactly how I just described.

When I use the lallemand pitch calculator, I typically round up about 1 g. For this current beer I have going right now they recommend at 18.1 g and I gave it 19. I love the fact that I don’t have to worry about starters or yeast viability, cell count, etc.

To me the finished product is very similar to juice or LA three. It has a little bit of its own character that I quite like and have been using it pretty consistently for a while now.

Thanks for the reply! yeah the first 48hrs were insane for me too, I did exactly as you mentioned at the beginning of day three by bumping it up in temp to 71-72 where it is now (working on day 4) with a thick krausen still. the krausen looks yeast-slurry like to me, more than just your typical foam-like krausen. Might try to gently swirl to help knock it down a bit to get that top cropping yeast back in suspension. Thanks again

 

[HopsAreGood]

Thanks for the reply! yeah the first 48hrs were insane for me too, I did exactly as you mentioned at the beginning of day three by bumping it up in temp to 71-72 where it is now (working on day 4) with a thick krausen still. the krausen looks yeast-slurry like to me, more than just your typical foam-like krausen. Might try to gently swirl to help knock it down a bit to get that top cropping yeast back in suspension. Thanks again

Yep, it’s definitely never a typical white Krausen. Kind of brown and crusty that leaves an off whiteish sludge when it drops. I just took a gravity sample exactly 5 days in and it’s gone from 1.086 down to 1.019 for about 78% attenuation. The Krausen is completely dropped and it’s just slowly bubbling away. It may be able to push out another point or two but it may also be done. This is the exact behavior I’ve come to expect from this yeast when using it the way I’ve been using it.

I’ll probably let it sit for another five days at 72, and then drop it down to about 55 to 58 for 48 hours before transferring it into the dryhop keg. Going to hit it with 10 ounces of Nectaron, 2 ounces of citra lupomax, and 2 ounces of mosaic lupomax. Definitely going to be a big beer.

8.8% abv If it’s finished, and the equivalent of about 2 1/2 pounds per barrel hot side, and 6 1/2 pound per barrel dryhop. So nearly a 9% beer with about 9 pounds per barrel total hopping rate. (22oz)