New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[beervoid]

It's been a long time since I brewed one of the original recipes in this thread. You guys have been busy.

I'm looking to brew something hazy and hoppy soon. I'm going to do a 2 Row/Spelt/Crystal 10 grain bill as I've seen a lot of people in here do now.

I want to try out the Cosmic Punch yeast.

I've got 8oz of 2021 Nelson Sauvin and 8 oz of 2021 Idaho 7 from HopsDirect. I've got a little bit of Saaz and Pacifica that I was going to throw into the mash to let the Cosmic Punch do its thing.

My main questions are:

Should I supplement Idaho/Nelson with a third hop variety in the boil and dry hop? I've got to order grain and yeast so I could throw in some Cryo pellets, or do you think this duo would work?

What kind of hop schedule and volume are people generally using these days?

According to the research wp additions drag down the thiols from the mash hopping, I would exect boil additions to have a similar effect

 

[Beerdrinker85]

Someone used Cryo Pop Original Blend from Yakima Chief?
Just bought a pound of it and was about to go 100% WP/DH Cryo Pop.

 

[wepeeler]

Someone used Cryo Pop Original Blend from Yakima Chief?
Just bought a pound of it and was about to go 100% WP/DH Cryo Pop.

Been wanting to try them out! I saw their research video on them and they sound great. Lots of survivable compounds that you want in your final product!

 

[secretlevel]

According to the research wp additions drag down the thiols from the mash hopping, I would exect boil additions to have a similar effect

Dang, didn't know this - is there an article on this?

In Omega's original article I saw a comparison of Mash hops vs Whirlpool hops comparison, but there was no data for when both were used.

 

[Jimmy_Hops]

Someone used Cryo Pop Original Blend from Yakima Chief?
Just bought a pound of it and was about to go 100% WP/DH Cryo Pop.

I really enjoyed them. I used 2 oz in my last IPA and I got a lot of Idaho 7 type flavors from them.

 

[beervoid]

Dang, didn't know this - is there an article on this?

In Omega's original article I saw a comparison of Mash hops vs Whirlpool hops comparison, but there was no data for when both were used.

Masterbrewerspodcast

 

[t^3]

Has anyone tried the Omega Sundew yeast in a NEIPA? I like the strawberry description. Never tried Strata hops either but it lists strawberry flavor as well. All the sudden I want a strawberry beer!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

So my lhbs stopped carrying imperial yeast... I like to support them, they carry white labs so I could try wlp067 coastal haze or any of their other strains but that one seems like a good option. I was planning to use imperial a38 or a24 which I could order, pay shipping blah blah blah, or I could just pick up the wlp067 and give it a shot. Anyone have any input?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Has anyone tried the Omega Sundew yeast in a NEIPA? I like the strawberry description. Never tried Strata hops either but it lists strawberry flavor as well. All the sudden I want a strawberry beer!

I have some strata I might use in my next batch, great hop. I haven't used sundew but it doesn't sound like bad option if that's the profile your looking for.

 

[secretlevel]

Has anyone tried the Omega Sundew yeast in a NEIPA? I like the strawberry description. Never tried Strata hops either but it lists strawberry flavor as well. All the sudden I want a strawberry beer!

I've tried a blonde ale with it and it's real underwhelming. Tastes like a pretty clean strain with some fruity undertones, but nothing to the level of LA3/Cosmic Punch or A24. For a blonde ale or a pale ale, it's very nice, but I wouldn't say that it'll make a great NEIPA.

 

[t^3]

I have some strata I might use in my next batch, great hop. I haven't used sundew but it doesn't sound like bad option if that's the profile your looking for.

Glad you liked Strata. Did you get much strawberry from it?

I've tried a blonde ale with it and it's real underwhelming. Tastes like a pretty clean strain with some fruity undertones, but nothing to the level of LA3/Cosmic Punch or A24. For a blonde ale or a pale ale, it's very nice, but I wouldn't say that it'll make a great NEIPA.

Hmmm, any strawberry flavor? What sort of hop bill did you have? Any chance that overpowered the yeast?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I didn't get strawberry, more the tropical, citrus, weed. But it was a fantastic brew I did a little over a year ago. On my upcoming batch I'm thinking I'll go with a galaxy/strata combo. With either citra or mosaic as supporting cast.

 

[wepeeler]

So my lhbs stopped carrying imperial yeast... I like to support them, they carry white labs so I could try wlp067 coastal haze or any of their other strains but that one seems like a good option. I was planning to use imperial a38 or a24 which I could order, pay shipping blah blah blah, or I could just pick up the wlp067 and give it a shot. Anyone have any input?

+1000 on Coastal Haze. It's my new favorite neipa yeast. Taken my game to a whole other level.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

+1000 on Coastal Haze. It's my new favorite neipa yeast. Taken my game to a whole other level.

Great, thanks! Now I'm excited for it.

 

[wepeeler]

Great, thanks! Now I'm excited for it.

Just be sure to use a blow off tube. It's aggressive.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Haha, I always do, 15gal batches in a conical... and when I first started brewing I sprayed a couple closets, since then I always start with a blow off.

 

[chieftain]

Not sure if folks have seen the new Tree House series, Project Find the Limit, where they increase the dry hop with each iteration…but 14.5lbs per barrel has gotta be close. It’s a buzzsaw to the palate, but surprisingly drinkable.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Seems interesting but also in the current nitch if the style... similar to when breweries were pushing ibus through the roof. All the marketing then was this wcipa has a bajillion ibus and now it is pounds of dry hops per barrel. Not being negative here, I think it's great to push the envelope and find that line of enjoyment.

 

[marc1]

Not sure if folks have seen the new Tree House series, Project Find the Limit, where they increase the dry hop with each iteration…but 14.5lbs per barrel has gotta be close. It’s a buzzsaw to the palate, but surprisingly drinkable.

Wow, they're easing up on a half pound per gallon... gotta be some serious volume losses to those hops.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Planning a brew for next weekend, looking for some input.

65% 2row
15% white wheat
10% malted oats
4% carapils
4% dextrose
2% honey malt

Small 60min addition of simcoe
10min addition of citra, mosaic, simcoe
Whirlpool at 170 of citra and mosaic

Dry hops
Citra, galaxy, strata

Any suggestions on the dry hop ratio or grain bill is appreciated. And what water profile are people using?

 

[secretlevel]

Not sure if folks have seen the new Tree House series, Project Find the Limit, where they increase the dry hop with each iteration…but 14.5lbs per barrel has gotta be close. It’s a buzzsaw to the palate, but surprisingly drinkable.

I haven't tried one, but it's interesting to me to look at Untappd ratings for each and how people liked them.

#1. 4.5#/bbl, rated at 4.3
#2. 5.5#/bbl, rated at 4.33
#3. 7#/bbl, rated at 4.27
#4. 8.5#/bbl, rated at 4.42
#5. ??/bbl, rated 4.34
#6. 11.5#/bbl, rated 4.43
#7. ??/bbl, rated 4.44
#8. 14.5/bbl, rated 4.58

- There's no dry hop weight value on untappd for #5, 7 or 8, but @chieftain confirmed that last one.
- More than anything, the quality of each of these brews probably depends on the quality of the hops. Hops are an agricultural product and thus vary batch by batch.
- #4 seems like a good middle ground, but the hop quality there could have been way better than in #3, which is an outliner in terms of linear ratings.
- #6 is where we start to see the ratings jump into 4.4+. 11.5 lbs per barrel is around 6oz per gallon according to my quick math.

I wonder how different a #4 would taste from a #6 or 7 and whether the difference would justify the price you pay for losses in volume and sheer cost of hops.

 

[secretlevel]

I did similar "Untappd analysis" on Alchemists' hop focus series called Skadoosh. I've only had #48, which barely made the charts. Here's how they stack up from highest rating to lowest:

#1. Skadoosh 58, Mosaic
#2. Skadoosh 46, Idaho 7 and Mosaic lupulin
#3. 59, Citra
#4. 45, Citra
#5. 42, Strata
#6. 51, HBC 630
#7. 49, Strata w/ Mosaic
#8. 39 Mosaic
#9. 57, McKenzie
#10. 56, Nelson Sauvin kettle, Riwaka DH
#11. 55, Riwaka kettle, Nelson DH
#12. 48, Comet

No surprises at the top, but it's cool to see HBC 630 rating at #6. I've never brewed with McKenzie or Comet, so those could be interesting.

 

[aaronm13]

Has anyone ever blended Conan with WLP664 which is effectively Imperial Dry Hop? I don't have easy access to Imperial yeast so wonder is making the blend possible and worth the hassle. Getting the ratio would be pretty hard. In the following thread
Conan x WLP644 hybrid

Someone did it at 75% Conan 25% 664. I emailed the OP to see if he was still selling the hybrid yeast he created but haven't heard back yet. Every brew would involve getting the 2 starters prepared but you would be confident no strain would ever take over and keep the ratios pretty close.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

Has anyone ever blended Conan with WLP664 which is effectively Imperial Dry Hop? I don't have easy access to Imperial yeast so wonder is making the blend possible and worth the hassle. Getting the ratio would be pretty hard. In the following thread
Conan x WLP644 hybrid

Someone did it at 75% Conan 25% 664. I emailed the OP to see if he was still selling the hybrid yeast he created but haven't heard back yet. Every brew would involve getting the 2 starters prepared but you would be confident no strain would ever take over and keep the ratios pretty close.

I did it last year for the same reason (no access to imperial dry hop here). I went with approximately 50/50 of 644 and Conan, ie same starter volume for both halves of the pitch.
I then compared the blend with straight 1318 in a split batch.
I preferred the 1318 version. It had better mouthfeel. Also, the yeast blend developed some slight belgiany flavours that I found a bit out of place in this style. And it cleared faster than the 1318 batch

 

[aaronm13]

I did it last year for the same reason (no access to imperial dry hop here). I went with approximately 50/50 of 644 and Conan, ie same starter volume for both halves of the pitch.
I then compared the blend with straight 1318 in a split batch.
I preferred the 1318 version. It had better mouthfeel. Also, the yeast blend developed some slight belgiany flavours that I found a bit out of place in this style. And it cleared faster than the 1318 batch

So you wouldn't recommend it then? Maybe a lower amount of 644 would have hid the Belgian aspect a bit more. I used Dry Hop once but never got any Belgian flavors off it so maybe the 644 is very low in the mix.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

So you wouldn't recommend it then? Maybe a lower amount of 644 would have hid the Belgian aspect a bit more. I used Dry Hop once but never got any Belgian flavors off it so maybe the 644 is very low in the mix.

Well this was only my very anecdotal experience of trying it just once. It wasn't also a "real" NEIPA...more kind of a NE pale ale with 50/50 Amarillo and Simcoe, and an overall more moderate hopping rate compared to your typical hazy juicy bomb (by today standards). It wasn't a bad beer by any means, just not up to the 1318 half in that particular batch, and for my personal taste.
Yes, if I were to try it again, I would reduce the 644 part.

Edit: the belgian notes were very subtle, and it could also be that it was just my imagination, knowing 644's origin... what I'm sure of, is that it was a bit more fruity than the 1318 version.

 

[aaronm13]

Well this was only my very anecdotal experience of trying it just once. It wasn't also a "real" NEIPA...more kind of a NE pale ale with 50/50 Amarillo and Simcoe. So not your typical hazy bomb by today standards. It wasn't bad but any means, just not up to the 1318 in that particular batch. Yes if I'd try it again, I would reduce the 644 part.

1318 is a great yeast but just way too temperamental for my liking. If I try the blend I'll report back. Have the Omega Conan strain so will go with that for the first gen and maybe try the blend after that.

 

[secretlevel]

Masterbrewerspodcast

I just listened to this Master Brewers pod and didn't really hear anything on Whirlpool having a negative impact on thiols.

At 40 min, Lance mentions that Mash hopping amplifies thiols and thiol precursors, which need to be available for the use by the yeast. He then mentions that you shouldn't skip whirlpool because monoterpene additions still need to happen in WP, as those will be lost in the boil from the mash hops.

 

[beervoid]

I just listened to this Master Brewers pod and didn't really hear anything on Whirlpool having a negative impact on thiols.

At 40 min, Lance mentions that Mash hopping amplifies thiols and thiol precursors, which need to be available for the use by the yeast. He then mentions that you shouldn't skip whirlpool because monoterpene additions still need to happen in WP, as those will be lost in the boil from the mash hops.

Ok I would swear it was there but maybe it was in scott janish his article?

 

[beervoid]

I just listened to this Master Brewers pod and didn't really hear anything on Whirlpool having a negative impact on thiols.

At 40 min, Lance mentions that Mash hopping amplifies thiols and thiol precursors, which need to be available for the use by the yeast. He then mentions that you shouldn't skip whirlpool because monoterpene additions still need to happen in WP, as those will be lost in the boil from the mash hops.

I might have confused dry hops with wp additions but in a way they are similar.
Will scan more through my notes.