New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Northern_Brewer]

Those Riwaka hops are difficult to get here in Europe.

The UK is probably your best bet given the traditional links with NZ, although Brexit doesn't make the practicalities any easier. And you will pay for them - 40-60% more than Nelson seems to be the norm.

https://darkrockbrewing.co.uk/50g-riwaka-hops-nz-2020-crop.htmlhttps://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/nz-riwaka/
Geterbrewed is the usual compromise option for getting British stuff into the EU easily, they only have 20g and 1kg packs though :
https://www.geterbrewed.ie/?subcats...N&match=all&q=riwaka&dispatch=products.search

 

[secretlevel]

If anyone is looking for a great hop combo, I snagged this combo from @Dgallo and his TIPA thread New England IPA - New England Style TIPA . This has been in the keg now for 9 days and its great. I didn't make a TIPA as this is "only" 8.0% ABV but used his hop combo of Columbus, Riwaka, Nelson, and Citra. Only changes I made to Dgallo's hop profile were to scale down the IBUs via boil additions and I used Columbus LUPOMAX for the 10min boil addition and Citra LUPOMAX in the DH. Columbus in the boil, Riwaka and Nelson in the WP, and Riwaka/Nelson/Citra as the DH. Admittedly, I was a bit nervous on this because I know Riwaka and Nelson to both be damn potent, but this combo is great and carries a nice complexity of flavors/aromas. Very tropical with some background dank notes with smooth white wine. The New Zealand"spice" or "diesel" is present but not overpowering at all and rather just complimentary to the fruity tropical vibe. All round, the hop combo is a winner IMO. Most telling is my wife took one sip of the initial force carb sample on keg day and said "you are going to make this again right?". She's not a beer connoisseur but she's definitely a beer enthusiast and supports my hobby so her opinion counts big! lol. Thanks @Dgallo for the combo!

View attachment 747693

This sounds awesome! I've never made an 8% NEIPA, that would be a feat.

I have to admit, I'm pretty weary of Riwaka after my NZ pils came out pretty undrinkable last year (100% Riwaka), but I had a Riwaka/Vic Secret IPA from Phase Three recently that was oustanding. I think I'm starting to be a little more open-minded about it.

 

[Shenanigans]

The UK is probably your best bet given the traditional links with NZ, although Brexit doesn't make the practicalities any easier. And you will pay for them - 40-60% more than Nelson seems to be the norm.

https://darkrockbrewing.co.uk/50g-riwaka-hops-nz-2020-crop.htmlhttps://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/nz-riwaka/
Geterbrewed is the usual compromise option for getting British stuff into the EU easily, they only have 20g and 1kg packs though :
https://www.geterbrewed.ie/?subcats...N&match=all&q=riwaka&dispatch=products.search

Thanks for the links.
I have so many hops to get through at the moment it's not so urgent but I'll still keep an eye out over the next year or two to see if they become more widespread/cheaper.

 

[TBryerton]

Can you try the Limit series and let us know what you think?

/

Who’s gonna dump 20 oz. of dry hops into their next batch?

#1 was good. Your typical TH beer. Esters come through pretty well. I tried #2, much more hop presence, but still too green. Should be much better in a couple weeks. Haven’t gotten my hands on #3 yet.

 

[secretlevel]

Here's the latest and greatest. I called it Space Baggins due to heavy NZ influence.

70% Pilsner
30% Spelt

Mash
Cascade - 1oz

Boil
Motueka - 1.3oz @ 20 min
Motueka - 1.2oz @ 15 min
Citra - 1.2oz @ 10 min

Whirlpool @ 180F
Motueka - 2oz
Nelson - 1oz
Citra - 1oz

Dry Hop
Nelson - 4oz
Motueka - 3oz
Citra - 2oz

Yeast
Cosmic punch (gen 5)

I just love the intensity of NZ hops, especially combined with a little Citra, it adds that little bit of "oompf!".
I get big juicy pineapple and mojito lime-type character with some underlying lemongrass from this brew. The large Motueka presence is definitely there, then Nelson and Citra just play off each other in the background creating this lemongrassy fruit salad. I have somewhat of a fetish for this type of NZ hop flavor, just so good.

This brew is absolutely delicious, but I'm realizing that these 6.5% IPAs just struggle to compete with 7.5-8% brews in competitions. I've got to figure out how to get more efficiency out of my Foundry, it's been a bit of a struggle, averaging around 56%.

Final note, the complexity this beer has with 3 hop varieties is on point. As much as I love the recognizable hop character you get with 2 hop varietals in a NEIPA, I think 3 hops just adds so much more depth (at least to my beers).

 

[HopsAreGood]

Here's the latest and greatest. I called it Space Baggins due to heavy NZ influence.

70% Pilsner
30% Spelt

Mash
Cascade - 1oz

Boil
Motueka - 1.3oz @ 20 min
Motueka - 1.2oz @ 15 min
Citra - 1.2oz @ 10 min

Whirlpool @ 180F
Motueka - 2oz
Nelson - 1oz
Citra - 1oz

Dry Hop
Nelson - 4oz
Motueka - 3oz
Citra - 2oz

Yeast
Cosmic punch (gen 5)

I just love the intensity of NZ hops, especially combined with a little Citra, it adds that little bit of "oompf!".
I get big juicy pineapple and mojito lime-type character with some underlying lemongrass from this brew. The large Motueka presence is definitely there, then Nelson and Citra just play off each other in the background creating this lemongrassy fruit salad. I have somewhat of a fetish for this type of NZ hop flavor, just so good.

This brew is absolutely delicious, but I'm realizing that these 6.5% IPAs just struggle to compete with 7.5-8% brews in competitions. I've got to figure out how to get more efficiency out of my Foundry, it's been a bit of a struggle, averaging around 56%.

Final note, the complexity this beer has with 3 hop varieties is on point. As much as I love the recognizable hop character you get with 2 hop varietals in a NEIPA, I think 3 hops just adds so much more depth (at least to my beers).

View attachment 747798

Looks great. While not ideal, dextrose can get you to the 7.5-8 range. Also brewers crystals or even some dme. Lots of ways to get there.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Try some c-10, or c-15 in place of the carafoam or honey malt. Carafoam is barely noticeable at that percentage and with honey malt being 25L it’s a little dark for me.

C-10 or C-15 is kind of like the middle point between the two of them, without the noticeable flavor and aroma contribution that honey malt can give. Both of these will add extremely minimal color when used at 3-4%, but for me add a slightly different element than carafoam or carapils.

Trillium uses this in a lot of their beers. Obviously the more you use, the darker the color will get, and the more you’ll notice it’s contribution.

View attachment 747733

Thanks for the suggestion. FWIW, I do notice a difference with 5% carafoam vs none at all in terms of mouthfeel/body and foam retention which is the reason why I use it. However, I just looked up C-10 and C-15 and had no idea that these malts you are suggesting also are purported to assist with mouthfeel/body as well. Always thought C-10 and C-15 would really simply contribute to sweetness in general. So might have to try this. Now I need to buy some first! put that on the long list of things to try lol.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

This sounds awesome! I've never made an 8% NEIPA, that would be a feat.

I have to admit, I'm pretty weary of Riwaka after my NZ pils came out pretty undrinkable last year (100% Riwaka), but I had a Riwaka/Vic Secret IPA from Phase Three recently that was oustanding. I think I'm starting to be a little more open-minded about it.

By undrinkable do you mean simply harsh due to intense NZ diesel/spice? That was my initial fear with this beer with LOTS of riwaka and nelson, but came out great. Also, to add my anecdotal data point to Riwaka, I used @Dgallo base pale ale single hop recipe a while back with Riwaka and it was great. Only had 6 ounces total of Riwaka in it with a warrior 60min bittering addition due to riwaka's low AA. From my memory, I remember tasting this pre-dry hop when I took the hydrometer reading and noticed something: VERY LITTLE NZ diesel came from riwaka when used on the hot side. It was predominately fruit. On the finished product, there definitely was some NZ diesel present although not too much but noticeable for sure but in a pleasant way. Keep in mind I only used 2oz of riwaka in the DH though. So, it seemed to me that riwaka is a GREAT hot side hop and most of its NZ diesel which people either seem to love or hate came from the DH addition. Just a thought if you are thinking of using it again.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Thanks for the suggestion. FWIW, I do notice a difference with 5% carafoam vs none at all in terms of mouthfeel/body and foam retention which is the reason why I use it. However, I just looked up C-10 and C-15 and had no idea that these malts you are suggesting also are purported to assist with mouthfeel/body as well. Always thought C-10 and C-15 would really simply contribute to sweetness in general. So might have to try this. Now I need to buy some first! put that on the long list of things to try lol.

Think of carafoam/carapils as a C-2. They’re basically a crystallized malt with a lovibond of 2-3. C-10 and C-15 are pretty much the same exact thing, just with a slightly darker color and therefore a touch more sweetness. Mouthfeel contributions should be similar. Trillium often uses both (dextrin malt and c-10, c-15) and sometimes just the 10 or 15. Sometimes even 20. It’s just another variable to play with.

 

[Dgallo]

I’m sure most of you have read this at some point but if you’re looking for some anecdotes (with some scientific evidence), this article discusses the impact the carapils use in NEIPAS
http://scottjanish.com/dextrins-and-mouthfeel/
On another note, Janish was just up here (Albany, NY) doing a collaboration beer with Fiden’s where they were mash hopping and targeting Free Thiols. The owner of the Meadery in town was invited to dinner with all of them afterwards. I’m starting to get to know him and I’m hoping I can get some more info on it. If I get anything interesting, I’ll update the thread

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Here's the latest and greatest. I called it Space Baggins due to heavy NZ influence.

70% Pilsner
30% Spelt

Mash
Cascade - 1oz

Boil
Motueka - 1.3oz @ 20 min
Motueka - 1.2oz @ 15 min
Citra - 1.2oz @ 10 min

Whirlpool @ 180F
Motueka - 2oz
Nelson - 1oz
Citra - 1oz

Dry Hop
Nelson - 4oz
Motueka - 3oz
Citra - 2oz

Yeast
Cosmic punch (gen 5)

I just love the intensity of NZ hops, especially combined with a little Citra, it adds that little bit of "oompf!".
I get big juicy pineapple and mojito lime-type character with some underlying lemongrass from this brew. The large Motueka presence is definitely there, then Nelson and Citra just play off each other in the background creating this lemongrassy fruit salad. I have somewhat of a fetish for this type of NZ hop flavor, just so good.

This brew is absolutely delicious, but I'm realizing that these 6.5% IPAs just struggle to compete with 7.5-8% brews in competitions. I've got to figure out how to get more efficiency out of my Foundry, it's been a bit of a struggle, averaging around 56%.

Final note, the complexity this beer has with 3 hop varieties is on point. As much as I love the recognizable hop character you get with 2 hop varietals in a NEIPA, I think 3 hops just adds so much more depth (at least to my beers).

View attachment 747798

looks great man! Have some motueka waiting for their moment in the sun and might need to try this. I also agree with @HopsAreGood are good in that a little dextrose can be helpful to bump up that ABV a little. I often do this myself, depending on the yeast Im using as well as the intended abv. an 8oz helping of dextrose to help get a beer ultimately to ~8.0% really doesn't adversely affect the beer at all IMO. Also depends on where it finishes. Im typically using it with Juice or Cosmic Punch and those beers are still finishing around 1.014-1.016 which Im digging for a ~7.7-8.5% beer. Also - Im also using the foundry and have been for almost two years now. Ive brewed with it with all the different processes you can (malt pipe vs malt-pipe with bag vs no malt pipe with bag: sparge vs no-sparge etc). With all those iterations in my processes though I've been pretty consistent with 75-79% Mash/lauter efficiency with these NEIPAs that end up with OGs of 1.070-1.076. I can consistently hit 1.070-.072 and end up with a ~7.5% ABV beer without dextrose. If you aren't that keen at scouring the couple hundred pages of the Anvil Foundry thread where Ive posted a bunch, shoot me a DM here and Id be happy to help if I can. Cheers!

 

[secretlevel]

By undrinkable do you mean simply harsh due to intense NZ diesel/spice? That was my initial fear with this beer with LOTS of riwaka and nelson, but came out great. Also, to add my anecdotal data point to Riwaka, I used @Dgallo base pale ale single hop recipe a while back with Riwaka and it was great. Only had 6 ounces total of Riwaka in it with a warrior 60min bittering addition due to riwaka's low AA. From my memory, I remember tasting this pre-dry hop when I took the hydrometer reading and noticed something: VERY LITTLE NZ diesel came from riwaka when used on the hot side. It was predominately fruit. On the finished product, there definitely was some NZ diesel present although not too much but noticeable for sure but in a pleasant way. Keep in mind I only used 2oz of riwaka in the DH though. So, it seemed to me that riwaka is a GREAT hot side hop and most of its NZ diesel which people either seem to love or hate came from the DH addition. Just a thought if you are thinking of using it again.

I must have just gotten a really bad batch of Riwaka, just unlucky I guess. The NZ pils tasted great after all the hot side additions since I added the dry hop to keg. Kegged up before the DH was pretty decent, a little fruity citrus note in there, but after the DH it was all this weird astringent butter character. It's like hop burn, but it tastes like grassy butter. The dry hop was 2oz Riwaka and 1oz Citra now that I look at the notes.

looks great man! Have some motueka waiting for their moment in the sun and might need to try this. I also agree with @HopsAreGood are good in that a little dextrose can be helpful to bump up that ABV a little. I often do this myself, depending on the yeast Im using as well as the intended abv. an 8oz helping of dextrose to help get a beer ultimately to ~8.0% really doesn't adversely affect the beer at all IMO. Also depends on where it finishes. Im typically using it with Juice or Cosmic Punch and those beers are still finishing around 1.014-1.016 which Im digging for a ~7.7-8.5% beer. Also - Im also using the foundry and have been for almost two years now. Ive brewed with it with all the different processes you can (malt pipe vs malt-pipe with bag vs no malt pipe with bag: sparge vs no-sparge etc). With all those iterations in my processes though I've been pretty consistent with 75-79% Mash/lauter efficiency with these NEIPAs that end up with OGs of 1.070-1.076. I can consistently hit 1.070-.072 and end up with a ~7.5% ABV beer without dextrose. If you aren't that keen at scouring the couple hundred pages of the Anvil Foundry thread where Ive posted a bunch, shoot me a DM here and Id be happy to help if I can. Cheers!

Ok, awesome! I'm moving this into DM's.
Motueka is really cool by the way, it's surprisingly pungent for only having 7% AA. It has a very specific mojito-lime note that some folks love and some folks don't care for, but it's always there in almost all Motueka beers.

 

[Dgallo]

all this weird astringent butter character. It's like hop burn, and grassy butter.

Sounds to me like you got hop creep that caused hop burn and the development of Diacetyl

 

[secretlevel]

Sounds to me like you got hop creep that caused hop burn and the development of Diacetyl

I'm not ruling anything out, but a bit surprising that it'd happen in keg at 39F. I guess the hop burn aspect of it makes sense... W34/70 is hell of a yeast

 

[Dgallo]

I'm not ruling anything out, but a bit surprising that it'd happen in keg at 39F. I guess the hop burn aspect of it makes sense... W34/70 is hell of a yeast

It’s a lager yeast, so it can most likely still metabolize the new sugars created from the hop enzymes at that temperature. I could be wrong though. But butter is almost always associated with VDK

 

[sweetcell]

https://www.farmhousebrewingsupply.com/oyl-402-cosmic-punch/
Oh yeah, here we go.

there has been some great discussion in this thread about Cosmic Punch - thanks everyone for sharing your experiences with this strain.

the CP info can be hard to find amid all the other content so with that in mind, i started a dedicated thread: Cosmic Punch (OYL-402) by Omega Yeast Labs.

 

[Frieds]

Ok, awesome! I'm moving this into DM's.
Motueka is really cool by the way, it's surprisingly pungent for only having 7% AA. It has a very specific mojito-lime note that some folks love and some folks don't care for, but it's always there in almost all Motueka beers.

I can’t for the life of me get any lime notes from Motueka. Have a beer on tap now that is motueka dominant. Used it on both hot side and cold side. The beer is delicious but it’s just your typical fruit salad medley as opposed to a specific lime character.

 

[anteater8]

I can’t for the life of me get any lime notes from Motueka. Have a beer on tap now that is motueka dominant. Used it on both hot side and cold side. The beer is delicious but it’s just your typical fruit salad medley as opposed to a specific lime character.

2:1 Motueka:Citra is probably a top 5 NEIPA hop combo for me, classic Citra character but with a limey mojito punch. Bright, tropical and crushable.

 

[anteater8]

Anyone using their NEIPA yeast for other styles? I try to reuse my Imperial Juice 3-5 times before buying a new packet, but I'm only brewing NEIPA's with it. I tried an Ordinary Bitter with it and wasn't too crazy about it.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I can’t for the life of me get any lime notes from Motueka. Have a beer on tap now that is motueka dominant. Used it on both hot side and cold side. The beer is delicious but it’s just your typical fruit salad medley as opposed to a specific lime character.

May be yeast dependent - you often get lime from biotransformation, what yeast are you using?

 

[Frieds]

May be yeast dependent - you often get lime from biotransformation, what yeast are you using?

I always use LA3

 

[beervoid]

Question for people brewing with Nelson Sauvin hops. Did you find that all the batches are all quiet hard pellets that drop easy to the bottom?
Wondering if this is typical for NZ hops.

 

[Dwaynehaze]

Tried something a bit different this go around for me. I wanted to use cheaper hops on the hot side and cold side and still get a pretty flavorful neipa using cosmic punch from omega. I usually knock out about 6.5 gals into my fermentor

malt

70% pilsen
15% pale spelt
15% white wheat

hops
.5 oz of ctz at 5 mins in boil

Whirlpool with 2.5 oz each of cascade and hull melon.

Day 2 dh 1 oz hull melon 1 oz cascade

Day 10 dh after dumping yeast and soft crashing to 58 degrees f. 7 oz of hull melon.

Ill usually shake my fermentor 2 to 3 times a day and leave the hops on for 3 days total before i cold crash and keg.

Kinda in love with this beer tons of aroma for its 6.1 abv. Strong strawberry vibes with a tiny touch of resin.

 

[ca_baracus]

What fermenter do you use in order to dump the yeast? Is there a benefit to doing this?

 

[Dwaynehaze]

What fermenter do you use in order to dump the yeast? Is there a benefit to doing this?

I have a 7 gallon ss brewtech. I believe the dumping yeast part is a Scott Janish thing just to make sure fermentation doesnt kick back up after dh. Gives me peace of mind when shaking my fermentor that the yeast wont be sloshing around as much in the beer.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have a question of efficiency in this style. To start I brew with a spike eherms system, 15 gallon batches, all my other brews I get 80% efficiency and with this style I'm lucky to hit 70% I assume this has to do with the amount of wheat I use. I mill my own grain and set the gap accordingly for each type of grain and I use rice hulls, maybe not enough rice hulls?? Last recipe was 23% wheat. I'll take any suggestions to help efficiency, I use beersmith and all my other numbers come out good as far as volume and mash temps. Should I mash lower, I aim for 150, Last one was at 153 for a little because my grain temp was warmer and I didn't adjust in beersmith. How much rice hulls are people using? I dont stir the mash after the initial mash in because I recirculate and use the SSbrewtech recirculate manifold, should I stir it more and if so when? I just brewed one last weekend and I'm gonna end up at 6.5 abv instead of 7.2abv depending upon attenuation. Not bad but not was I was looking for. So I'm looking to get some input of what people do here or if 70% is just what to expect from this style. Thanks all, sorry kinda rambly post.

 

[marc1]

Wheat malt mills differently. Did you check the grind to make sure that it was crushed enough? Or just changed the gap?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yeah, I set my mill at .026 for wheat and it looked good. Dont have a pic or I would attach..

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I have a question of efficiency in this style. To start I brew with a spike eherms system, 15 gallon batches, all my other brews I get 80% efficiency and with this style I'm lucky to hit 70% I assume this has to do with the amount of wheat I use. I mill my own grain and set the gap accordingly for each type of grain and I use rice hulls, maybe not enough rice hulls?? Last recipe was 23% wheat. I'll take any suggestions to help efficiency, I use beersmith and all my other numbers come out good as far as volume and mash temps. Should I mash lower, I aim for 150, Last one was at 153 for a little because my grain temp was warmer and I didn't adjust in beersmith. How much rice hulls are people using? I dont stir the mash after the initial mash in because I recirculate and use the SSbrewtech recirculate manifold, should I stir it more and if so when? I just brewed one last weekend and I'm gonna end up at 6.5 abv instead of 7.2abv depending upon attenuation. Not bad but not was I was looking for. So I'm looking to get some input of what people do here or if 70% is just what to expect from this style. Thanks all, sorry kinda rambly post.

I average 77% mash/lauter efficiency give or take a point or two on my NEIPAs but I have a 10.5gal foundry so our systems are really apples to oranges comparisons. For your system, Im wondering if you are getting channeling in your mash due to either sticky wort or pumping too fast. I understand with 3V HERMS peeps don't stir the grain bed once its set but it may still help once in a while. I use 12oz of rice hulls for a 5gal batch with my NEIPAs in the foundry too which does help.

 

[Dgallo]

I have a 7 gallon ss brewtech. I believe the dumping yeast part is a Scott Janish thing just to make sure fermentation doesnt kick back up after dh. Gives me peace of mind when shaking my fermentor that the yeast wont be sloshing around as much in the beer.

This and so when the yeast crash out, they don’t strip some of the hop compounds from the dryhop with them