New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[couchsending]

For those mash hopping, Are you using whole cone?

Also how has this effected your mash Ph?

Haven’t tried this yet, but based on what I’ve measured when it comes to the hops creating pH shift when whirlpooling, even 6oz of pellets doesn’t seem to have that big of an effect on pH in the whirlpool.

Leaf hops on the other hand do seem to create a bigger shift in pH, at least in the WP or hopback.

 

[Dgallo]

Haven’t tried this yet, but based on what I’ve measured when it comes to the hops creating pH shift when whirlpooling, even 6oz of pellets doesn’t seem to have that big of an effect on pH in the whirlpool.

Leaf hops on the other hand do seem to create a bigger shift in pH, at least in the WP or hopback.

My thought was a maximum shift of .2 but just very interested to see if anyone measured the difference.

 

[Dgallo]

Im planning on using pellets for this. I haven't done this myself but pH was in the back of my head as well. Since I do 90 minute mashes, Im thinking of putting the hops in 30minutes after dough in. Im typically checking pH regularly during the mash too so I'll have a good idea on the effect of mash hops on mash pH if I add them 30 minutes in and have a pH measurement or two before and also after adding the mash hops.

EDIT: Just not sure if the presence of the hops at dough in would help with the "unbinding" of thiols from the barley BEFORE most of the conversion happens.

Keep me posted. I’m growing hops this year and my Columbus are at least 2 weeks in front of my cascade and probably another 3-4 weeks ahead of the cashmere, so I won’t be able to do a wet hop beer with all three (hoping still for one with Columbus/cascade). Figured I’d give mash hoping a try when I get around to this yeast.

Def going to be a good yield for 1st year hops. These are the Columbus

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Keep me posted. I’m growing hops this year and my Columbus are at least 2 weeks in front of my cascade and probably another 3-4 weeks ahead of the cashmere, so I won’t be able to do a wet hop beer with all three (hoping still for one with Columbus/cascade).

Sounds ideal spacing to me - allows some to go in on brewday, and then a different variety dry-hopped at the end of fermentation.

Don't forget the water content of green hops means you need 6-7x the weight compared to dried hops.

 

[kingmatt]

My mash pH was only slightly higher than normal, but still within my acceptable range, with the mash hopping. I used pellets and I did run into some sparging issues, so I had to add some rice hulls to get things going.

 

[Dgallo]

Sounds ideal spacing to me - allows some to go in on brewday, and then a different variety dry-hopped at the end of fermentation.

Don't forget the water content of green hops means you need 6-7x the weight compared to dried hops.

That’s true. I didn’t think about hoping that way but it would work perfectly.

I’ve been seeing a lot of folks saying around 5 oz wet hops = 1 oz dried whole cones. I’m most likely going to stay in that range as my recipe will need about 2 lbs at that rate... not sure I’ll even yield that much but I’m hopeful

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I’ve been seeing a lot of folks saying around 5 oz wet hops = 1 oz dried whole cones.

US sources seem to generally say 5x or 6x, but talking to brewers in Kent, 7x seems to be the standard. Dunno if that's just being more generous with English varieties, or US terroir leading to lower water content.

In reality - use what you've got. Just make sure they're fresh, picked on the day - they go off incredibly quickly, after 24 hours they're no good. In Kent the brewers will typically put the boil on, then go to the farm to pick up hops whilst the water is heating up.

At least the Canterbury Food festival in late September is back on this year - the traditional focal point for green hop beers in East Kent and probably my favourite beer festival. 40+ cask-conditioned beers on gravity, all green hop from pales to stouts and saisons, mostly EKG but with a few other varieties depending on how early the harvest is, overlooked by the remains of a Norman (late 11th century) castle - can't beat it.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’ve done a couple dozen hop combinations for these beers and spent a lot of time trying to find some secret hop combination that would be top notch while saving some money. I’ve tried mixing in cascade centennial bravo comet even Amarillo and Columbus. Lots of great results but they don’t quite match the superstar hops like citra mosaic galaxy Nelson and I’ll even throw strata and Vic secret in this elite category.
So lately I’ve been going back to just using the obvious choices and results have been great. Latest effort was mosaic and galaxy and big surprise it was effing phenomenal!

Did I miss any? Would you put anything else in that top tier “cheater hop” category?

 

[Dgallo]

I’ve done a couple dozen hop combinations for these beers and spent a lot of time trying to find some secret hop combination that would be top notch while saving some money. I’ve tried mixing in cascade centennial bravo comet even Amarillo and Columbus. Lots of great results but they don’t quite match the superstar hops like citra mosaic galaxy Nelson and I’ll even throw strata and Vic secret in this elite category.
So lately I’ve been going back to just using the obvious choices and results have been great. Latest effort was mosaic and galaxy and big surprise it was effing phenomenal!

Did I miss any? Would you put anything else in that top tier “cheater hop” category?

Riwaka, Sabro, enigma (when paired well...its potent as hell), rakau, simcoe, Idaho 7, Strata.

That said I think combos really matter. I’m really big in trying to pair hops that will complement each other. I use Citra the most but love to layer beers with Columbus and cascade all the time

 

[ihavenonickname]

Alright I’m with you simcoe and I7 are great but would you really put it on the highest tier?

Here’s my updated but subject to change ELITE tier:
Citra mosaic galaxy nelson strata

It’s just not fair how good these hops are.

Edit: changed my mind

 

[R.A.I.D]

Did I miss any? Would you put anything else in that top tier “cheater hop” category?

Nectaron

 

[secretlevel]

Alright I’m with you simcoe and I7 are great but would you really put it on the highest tier?

Here’s my updated but subject to change ELITE tier:
Citra mosaic galaxy nelson strata

It’s just not fair how good these hops are.

Edit: changed my mind

I think it depends on the lots and hop quality, but I think yeah, all of those hops can be amazing. I got a silver medal for an Idaho 7/Mosaic/Citra beer from around 40 entries a while back. Idaho 7 comprised about 50% of the hop bill. It was a big orange flavor with a very pleasant Black tea note. I think it really stood out from your average super-fruity NEIPA.

I haven't tried Enigma though, I'll have to give it a try here soon.

 

[Jimmy_Hops]

So this is my first time ever posting on HBT. I have been a lurker since about 2013 and have learned a ton. I live in Maryland and my favorite breweries are: The Veil, Triple Crossing, Other Half, Equilibrium, and locally, The Crooked Crab (the head brewer used to brew at RaR and has been putting out some fire NEIPAs lately). Anyways, I have brewed several awful NEIPAs over the past few years but my last one was almost perfect. I didn't have a fermentation chamber to temp control and dry hopped for 2 days at ambient temps (about 72 degrees) and then cold crashed for 2 days (I could only crash in a fridge but didn't have a way to temp control but now do). The beer was amazing for the first week or so but then became a diacetyl bomb. It was the first time I had nailed a NEIPA and was loving it....that being said, I am very excited to brew another batch. I brewed that NEIPA back in February (had a baby the same month so I have been on a brewing hiatus) and have a ton of hops saved up. After reading your discussions over the past several months, I am going to give this recipe a try, mainly based on @Dgallo most recent spelt forward recipe. I did a spelt NEIPA a couple of years ago and it turned out beautiful but was a drain pour as it was way to astringently bitter from the massive amount of Galaxy I used. Anyways, here it is and please let me know how it looks and if I should change anything! Side Note: I brew in an Anvil Foundry 10.5, ferment under pressure in a Fermzilla, and can (now) dry hop cold. Any tips are welcome!

Spelt NEIPA

Water
I don't have the specifics of the water chemistry I use (currently at work), but I have that where I like it for the style.

Grains
77% - 2row
22% - spelt
1% - honey malt
1 lb. Dextrose

Mash
40 min. - 146
30 min. - 162
10 min. - mash out

Yeast
Imperial A24 – Dry Hop
(0.65 million cell/ml/*p)

Hot side hops
Cascade whole leaf mash hop (I’m thinking 4-6 oz.)
Columbus @ 60 (20 ibu)
Citra @ 10 (10 ibu)
Mosaic @ 5 (10 ibu)
Idaho 7 @ Flame out (20 ibu)

Whirlpool @ 180 for 30
1 oz. Columbus
1 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
2 oz. Idaho 7
2 oz. Galaxy

Dry Hop
5 oz. Galaxy
2.5 oz. Citra
2.5 oz. Mosaic LUPOMAX

soft-crashing then dry-hoping at 55*F

 

[Dgallo]

So this is my first time ever posting on HBT. I have been a lurker since about 2013 and have learned a ton. I live in Maryland and my favorite breweries are: The Veil, Triple Crossing, Other Half, Equilibrium, and locally, The Crooked Crab (the head brewer used to brew at RaR and has been putting out some fire NEIPAs lately). Anyways, I have brewed several awful NEIPAs over the past few years but my last one was almost perfect. I didn't have a fermentation chamber to temp control and dry hopped for 2 days at ambient temps (about 72 degrees) and then cold crashed for 2 days (I could only crash in a fridge but didn't have a way to temp control but now do). The beer was amazing for the first week or so but then became a diacetyl bomb. It was the first time I had nailed a NEIPA and was loving it....that being said, I am very excited to brew another batch. I brewed that NEIPA back in February (had a baby the same month so I have been on a brewing hiatus) and have a ton of hops saved up. After reading your discussions over the past several months, I am going to give this recipe a try, mainly based on @Dgallo most recent spelt forward recipe. I did a spelt NEIPA a couple of years ago and it turned out beautiful but was a drain pour as it was way to astringently bitter from the massive amount of Galaxy I used. Anyways, here it is and please let me know how it looks and if I should change anything! Side Note: I brew in an Anvil Foundry 10.5, ferment under pressure in a Fermzilla, and can (now) dry hop cold. Any tips are welcome!

Spelt NEIPA

Water
I don't have the specifics of the water chemistry I use (currently at work), but I have that where I like it for the style.

Grains
77% - 2row
22% - spelt
1% - honey malt
1 lb. Dextrose

Mash
40 min. - 146
30 min. - 162
10 min. - mash out

Yeast
Imperial A24 – Dry Hop
(0.65 million cell/ml/*p)

Hot side hops
Cascade whole leaf mash hop (I’m thinking 4-6 oz.)
Columbus @ 60 (20 ibu)
Citra @ 10 (10 ibu)
Mosaic @ 5 (10 ibu)
Idaho 7 @ Flame out (20 ibu)

Whirlpool @ 180 for 30
1 oz. Columbus
1 oz. Citra
1 oz. Mosaic
2 oz. Idaho 7
2 oz. Galaxy

Dry Hop
5 oz. Galaxy
2.5 oz. Citra
2.5 oz. Mosaic LUPOMAX

soft-crashing then dry-hoping at 55*F

Looks good but I’d be careful either the hop totals and the ibu target. My suggestion would be to cut your boil and whirlpool amounts in half. Targeting no more that 20-25 ibus hotside as you will pick up some ibus from the mash, whirlpool and even some from the dryhops. Having 60 ibus from boil hops alone is asking for trouble IMHO

 

[R.A.I.D]

Riwaka, Sabro, enigma (when paired well...its potent as hell), rakau, simcoe, Idaho 7, Strata.

What do you get from Riwaka, Enigma and Rakau when used in DH?

 

[Jimmy_Hops]

Ok cool, I'll definitely cut the hot side hops down and only do half of the WP hops. I usually don't get much from the WP anyways. I'm hoping the mash hop, I7 hot side addition, and large dry hop get me where I want to be. That along with the spelt will hopefully be the winning ticket. I am tempted to add a small addition of flaked oats in the sparge water just because it seems so weird not adding any oats but idk....we will see what happens on brew day. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Dgallo]

What do you get from Riwaka, Enigma and Rakau when used in DH?

Riwaka has citrus, grapefruit, tropical notes with a cool lite herbals earthy thing. Also you do get that NZ hop thing.

Rakau came off very stone fruit like. Maybe apricot is the best comparison but I really loved what it brought.

Enigma is just extremely unique. It’s hard to say exactly the flavor it brings (if you use it you’ll see what I mean) but it’s like an dark berry with earth and NZ hop character. Extremely potent. I found it pairs really well with mosiac and Nelson.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Riwaka has citrus, grapefruit, tropical notes with a cool lite herbals earthy thing. Also you do get that NZ hop thing.

Rakau came off very stone fruit like. Maybe apricot is the best comparison but I really loved what it brought.

Enigma is just extremely unique. It’s hard to say exactly the flavor it brings (if you use it you’ll see what I mean) but it’s like an dark berry with earth and NZ hop character. Extremely potent. I found it pairs really well with mosiac and Nelson.

Enigma is amazing. It really is hard to describe it as it’s so unique. Depending on your palette you may taste different things. I get a really strong white wine kind of thing...much more than I’ve ever gotten from Nelson even though that’s one it’s main descriptors. I’ve done a single hop enigma beer twice, and both times it was insanely potent. Sometimes I struggle to pick out specific hop characteristics, but with enigma it’s just BOOM! Right there in your face.

I had a single hop enigma beer from a local brewery and it was virtually identical to the two beers I made. If you haven’t tried it, I highly recommend it. Even if you don’t end up liking it as much as I do, it’s incredibly unique and worth playing around with.

 

[aaronm13]

Enigma is amazing. It really is hard to describe it as it’s so unique. Depending on your palette you may taste different things. I get a really strong white wine kind of thing...much more than I’ve ever gotten from Nelson even though that’s one it’s main descriptors. I’ve done a single hop enigma beer twice, and both times it was insanely potent. Sometimes I struggle to pick out specific hop characteristics, but with enigma it’s just BOOM! Right there in your face.

I had a single hop enigma beer from a local brewery and it was virtually identical to the two beers I made. If you haven’t tried it, I highly recommend it. Even if you don’t end up liking it as much as I do, it’s incredibly unique and worth playing around with.

I really need to pick up some Enigma, sounds so interesting. Managed to get 7oz of Nectaron so really looking forward to brewing with it. Now just to decide what to pair it with

 

[TBryerton]

Enigma is amazing. It really is hard to describe it as it’s so unique. Depending on your palette you may taste different things. I get a really strong white wine kind of thing...much more than I’ve ever gotten from Nelson even though that’s one it’s main descriptors. I’ve done a single hop enigma beer twice, and both times it was insanely potent. Sometimes I struggle to pick out specific hop characteristics, but with enigma it’s just BOOM! Right there in your face.

I had a single hop enigma beer from a local brewery and it was virtually identical to the two beers I made. If you haven’t tried it, I highly recommend it. Even if you don’t end up liking it as much as I do, it’s incredibly unique and worth playing around with.

Enigma is one of the crazier hops I’ve used. In my experience it dominates most other hops and doesn’t seem to fade. That being said, I’d be cautious about using it in large percentages on the cold side.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I really need to pick up some Enigma, sounds so interesting. Managed to get 7oz of Nectaron so really looking forward to brewing with it. Now just to decide what to pair it with

I posted my experiences with nectaron a little while ago in this thread. Here it is in the link below. Great hop!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/post-9135991

 

[aaronm13]

I posted my experiences with nectaron a little while ago in this thread. Here it is in the link below. Great hop!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/post-9135991

Thanks for the link. Don't have some of those hops to do the exact combinations but I'll see what I can come up with. I'm sure Citra would work a treat and maybe one other hop. Would Riwaka work with Nectaron? I bought a half pound of it with no no plan to use it in anything?

 

[couchsending]

Studies have shown that heavy dry hopping can actually decrease IBUs... crazy right?

Edward is 80 theoretical IBUs. It’s 5.2%

Julius is over 50 theoretical I believe as well

HBC586 is maybe my new favorite, although the 2020 crop isn’t as good as 2019 (same can be said for a lot of hops due to the smoke).

Just ordered some HBC735 from YCH for an upcoming beer. Sounds like it could be interesting...

My brewery is opening hopefully around Labor Day. We’ll be brewing a lot of this beer that leans heavy in the “tropical” end of the spectrum. I built it with Nectaron being a decent amount of the blend but drug my feet on contracting it cause of the price and when I finally pulled the trigger it was gone. HBC586 and Citra were the other two hops with 586 dominating. We’re brewing on a small 3.5/4 bbl steam system and have a bunch of 1bbl and 1/2bbl unitanks so we can split a batch 4+ ways and try different variables like DH varieties, different yeasts, pitch rates, etc.

Beer will be 586/Idaho 7 heavy on the hotside and the DH will get split up into different combos.

586/Citra/Bru-1 Lupomax
586/Bru-1 Lupo/HBC735
586/Nelson/HBC735
586/Bru-1 Lupo/Nelson

Might even try a little 7g batch with Cosmic punch and the remaining Nectaron I have at home.

We’ll be mash hopping with some HBC520 which is supposed to have the highest 3MH content of any hop...

 

[HopsAreGood]

Studies have shown that heavy dry hopping can actually decrease IBUs... crazy right?

Edward is 80 theoretical IBUs. It’s 5.2%

Julius is over 50 theoretical I believe as well

HBC586 is maybe my new favorite, although the 2020 crop isn’t as good as 2019 (same can be said for a lot of hops due to the smoke).

Just ordered some HBC735 from YCH for an upcoming beer. Sounds like it could be interesting...

My brewery is opening hopefully around Labor Day. We’ll be brewing a lot of this beer that leans heavy in the “tropical” end of the spectrum. I built it with Nectaron being a decent amount of the blend but drug my feet on contracting it cause of the price and when I finally pulled the trigger it was gone. HBC586 and Citra were the other two hops with 586 dominating. We’re brewing on a small 3.5/4 bbl steam system and have a bunch of 1bbl and 1/2bbl unitanks so we can split a batch 4+ ways and try different variables like DH varieties, different yeasts, pitch rates, etc.

Beer will be 586/Idaho 7 heavy on the hotside and the DH will get split up into different combos.

586/Citra/Bru-1 Lupomax
586/Bru-1 Lupo/HBC735
586/Nelson/HBC735
586/Bru-1 Lupo/Nelson

Might even try a little 7g batch with Cosmic punch and the remaining Nectaron I have at home.

We’ll be mash hopping with some HBC520 which is supposed to have the highest 3MH content of any hop...

What brewery are you opening? Did I miss something?

 

[ihavenonickname]

Yeah what are the deets? I would go out of my way to go to your brewery! Especially if you had a hazy dry hopped 4 ways!

 

[sibelman]

Sorry to be Mister Word Person, but..

One of the following relates to our sense of taste/flavor : pallet (of lumber), pallette (of paints), or palate (part of the anatomy).

 

[ThatVideoKid]

Hey congrats on the brewery @couchsending!

I've been working on putting together a ~2bbl plan to run on the side (it would work well alongside my normal hours), but the right space at the right price hasn't really materialized. At least not enough for me to take the leap.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Sorry to be Mister Word Person, but..

One of the following relates to our sense of taste/flavor : pallet (of lumber), pallette (of paints), or palate (part of the anatomy).

Pretty sure this is directed at me. I usually use the talk to text function on here so a lot of times I fall victim to autocorrect mistakes. Often times I’ll say what I want to say and then fix any errors before posting, but this time I did not. Anyway, I’m a bit of a word person as well.

 

[Shenanigans]

Riwaka has citrus, grapefruit, tropical notes with a cool lite herbals earthy thing. Also you do get that NZ hop thing.

Rakau came off very stone fruit like. Maybe apricot is the best comparison but I really loved what it brought.

Enigma is just extremely unique. It’s hard to say exactly the flavor it brings (if you use it you’ll see what I mean) but it’s like an dark berry with earth and NZ hop character. Extremely potent. I found it pairs really well with mosiac and Nelson.

How do Riwaka and Rakau compare?
I guess "that NZ hop thing" means Riwaka is a bit more potent/in your face.
I read a few disappointing reviews about single hop beers with Rakau but if it is considered a good hop to add in combination with others in an NEIPA I might try it sometime as it's a lot less expensive and more readily available for me than Riwaka.

 

[secretlevel]

How do Riwaka and Rakau compare?
I guess "that NZ hop thing" means Riwaka is a bit more potent/in your face.
I read a few disappointing reviews about single hop beers with Rakau but if it is considered a good hop to add in combination with others in an NEIPA I might try it sometime as it's a lot less expensive and more readily available for me than Riwaka.

That NZ hop thing can also be diesel. It's common in Riwaka, and the one bag I had was pretty seriously diesel-heavy. So much so, that the NZ Pils was pretty undrinkable for about a month. I know folks get different batches and some folks also like the note, so don't take this as a red flag. I might use Riwaka again, I'll just blend it with a non-NZ or a diesel-free NZ hop. I have to say though, it's a really potent hop.