New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[ThatVideoKid]

@Dgallo This is the question for me too… so you are opening the lid TWICE after fermentation to dry hop. This is a hang up for me on our small scale where O2 exposure matters more. And this is as you flow CO2 through the liquid side? Does that mean the co2 is bubbling and sloshing up the liquid as you drop the hops?
When I do this in kegs, the fussiness of the keg lid has always made this tough. I run co2 thru the gas post, which is so close to the lid I don't think it does a great job of keeping the Air out. Using this method I’ve had oxidation drop off by week 3-4 pretty consistently (with even one addition) where as keeping the system closed and doing the dry hop flushed by fermentation thing it’s stayed fresher longer. But I wonder if I’m giving up some initial pungency. Maybe an all rounder or a fermonster with an easier lid would be an upgrade from my 10g corney keg.

I just want to comment that the All-Rounder IS NOT an easier lid. It’s a large opening and a son of a b*tch to get open. I have to pry it with a screw driver every time.

I’ve taken to just pulling the airlock and adding my hops with a funnel, but it’s not the fastest process.

 

[Beerdrinker85]

I have the All-Rounder and you absolutely need a jar adjustable opener to close/open it.
This is mandatory unless you take juice

 

[anteater8]

I took a stab at the "Oat Cream Ale" style and added some vanilla bean to make it more like a milkshake IPA. This is one of my favorite beers I've brewed in a while, and it took 1st place in the milkshake category of a local IPA competition. Really creamy mouthfeel but not overly thick, tons of tropical fruit balanced nicely with the vanilla, and just enough bitterness. I might like this better than some of the fruited versions I've done, because you don't get any of the acidity from the fruit plus its way cheaper to make.

12 lb 2 row
3 lb Malted oats
3 lb Flaked oats
0.5 Wheat
0.7 lb Lactose

0.3 oz Warrior (12 IBU)
2 oz Citra whirlpool
2 oz Mosaic Lupomax whirlpool
2 oz Citra dry hop #1
2 oz Mosaic dry hop #1
2 oz Citra Lupomax dry hop #2

1 vanilla bean w/ dry hop #2

Imperial Juice gen 3

O.G. = 1.071
F.G. = 1.017
ABV = 7.1%

Fermented from 64 up to room temp over 4 or 5 days

 

[stickyfinger]

I could think of a few uses for that...

I have the All-Rounder and you absolutely need a jar adjustable opener to close/open it.
This is mandatory unless you take juice

 

[AM1]

Guys newbie question here. My recipe calls for 50/50 MO and Pils malt. SRM around 4.3.

If i boil for 90 mins i run the risk to increase SRM which i do not want as i would like to stay on lighter side.

If i boil for 60 do i run the risk of DMS? ( i use weyerman pils malt).

What boiling time you suggest to avoid DMS and avoid increase in SRM?

Thank you!

 

[couchsending]

Guys newbie question here. My recipe calls for 50/50 MO and Pils malt. SRM around 4.3.

If i boil for 90 mins i run the risk to increase SRM which i do not want as i would like to stay on lighter side.

If i boil for 60 do i run the risk of DMS? ( i use weyerman pils malt).

What boiling time you suggest to avoid DMS and avoid increase in SRM?

Thank you!

You will notice zero difference in SRM boiling for 60 vs. 90. 50% pilsner you should be fine at 70 minutes if you're below 3000 feet in elevation.

 

[Dgallo]

Guys newbie question here. My recipe calls for 50/50 MO and Pils malt. SRM around 4.3.

If i boil for 90 mins i run the risk to increase SRM which i do not want as i would like to stay on lighter side.

If i boil for 60 do i run the risk of DMS? ( i use weyerman pils malt).

What boiling time you suggest to avoid DMS and avoid increase in SRM?

Thank you!

With today’s malt and in an ipa verses a Lager, I’d be hard pressed to think youd have a dms issue with a 60 minute boil. If you’re concerned, use 2row, most maltster have it only .3 srm higher than Pilsner

 

[AM1]

You will notice zero difference in SRM boiling for 60 vs. 90. 50% pilsner you should be fine at 70 minutes if you're below 3000 feet in elevation.

Thank you for the advice!

 

[AM1]

With today’s malt and in an ipa verses a Lager, I’d be hard pressed to think youd have a dms issue with a 60 minute boil. If you’re concerned, use 2row, most maltster have it only .3 srm higher than Pilsner

Thank you the info, appreciated!

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm curious how you guys brewing NEIPA's are handling trub? Are you trying to keep it out of your fermenter, or you intentionally throw it in? Especially all those late hop additions... I could imagine pros and cons for each way and wondered if there was a standard of sorts.

I'm assuming it's been brought up at some point, if not it might be an interesting subject because I'd expect it to have some effect.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I brew in a 30 gallon kettle and 17.5 gallon in the fermenter, so I start with lots extra wort for this style, usually 23 gallon wort in the kettle. 2 gallon of boil off, a little bit of shrinkage and after a good long whirlpool I leave 3 ish gallons of trub in the kettle. I do transfer some as I approach the last half gallon to get my fermenter volume where I want it and I am fine with that. Using a conical its easy to dump the trub when the time comes.

 

[couchsending]

There is no “pro” in pouring trub into your fermenter... for any beer.

There are debates about whether a small amount of trub is beneficial to any beer from a nutrient perspective but that would be the only reason and there are lots of variables at play.

 

[stickyfinger]

I’ve done a ton of mostly Pils malt IPAs lately. DMS just hasn’t been an issue. I am careful to add hopstand hops at flameout and start chilling within 5 minutes but one time I did a covered-kettle hop stand for at least 15 minutes and the beer didn’t have DMS that I could detect. I also have been dropping my boiliff rate down to the 6-8% range and haven’t had any negative flavor impact.

Guys newbie question here. My recipe calls for 50/50 MO and Pils malt. SRM around 4.3.

If i boil for 90 mins i run the risk to increase SRM which i do not want as i would like to stay on lighter side.

If i boil for 60 do i run the risk of DMS? ( i use weyerman pils malt).

What boiling time you suggest to avoid DMS and avoid increase in SRM?

Thank you!

 

[stickyfinger]

I did a triple batch recently with Verdant vs S33 vs US04. After some aging the Verdant tastes amazing and attenuation was very high - crisp and very easy to drink - no sharp edges. The S04 is really good, more body and sweetness but it totally accentuated the oat malt! It has so much oat malt flavor! The S33 is a bust so far. Weird sulfury character. I must have abused it somehow.

are there lower attenuation dry yeasts that are good in this style?

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I'm curious how you guys brewing NEIPA's are handling trub? Are you trying to keep it out of your fermenter, or you intentionally throw it in? Especially all those late hop additions... I could imagine pros and cons for each way and wondered if there was a standard of sorts.

I'm assuming it's been brought up at some point, if not it might be an interesting subject because I'd expect it to have some effect.

While I have never intentionally tried to increase trub into the fermenter, Ive gone from "it doesn't matter" to "I want to get as little trub as possible into the fermenter". For context, Im using the tall/narrow 10.5gal foundry where there is really nowhere for any loose hops/hotbreak/coldbreak to go where the kettle outlet doesn't suck it into the fermenter. Whirlpooling may create a trub cone initially but when the wort gets down to near the bottom it collapses onto the dip tube quickly. Early on, I simply pumped all that was needed into the fermenter immediately after chilling and ended up with anywhere from 0.5-0.75gal of trub into the fermenter (measured after it all settled and compacted). The beers were good, no BIG off flavors that my novice palate could detect. But especially with big oat DIPAs with ~50% oats/wheat/etc, this trub was excessive to the point that I wasn't even getting a full keg full at kegging time - super pissed when that happens given all the hard work! So I started letting my kettle settle everything out by simply waiting after chilling before pumping into the fermenter and now I'm under a quart (at most) of trub into the fermenter. By letting everything settle most all of my wort to the fermenter is VERY clean/clear looking. So this has helped tremendously with losses going to the keg. Also as an unanticipated effect, my fermentations are actually more vigorous to the point I need blow offs more often than not, but Ive also noticed that my foam on the finished beer is better/fantastic with solid head retention. So that's where Im at now from what I can see as benefits at minimizing true into the fermenter. Im not afraid of SOME trub, but minimizing it gives me the best results I can perceive thus far.

FYI, Ive always used hops loose in all aspects of my brewing as well and getting less hop vegetal matter from the hot side into the fermenter I believe also helps. So rather than use hop bags/SS cylinders/etc, I simply wait for everything to settle in the kettle prior to transferring. I also ALWAYS have used Whirlfloc as well.

Just my experiences anyways - cheers!

 

[tracer bullet]

Thanks for the responses. I was kind of evaluating "trub is great (or at least - makes no difference)" vs. "old hops will give vegetable tastes" - the latter which could have a timer started with the carryover of the hops used during the actual boiling.

It makes inherent sense to keep that stuff out as a goal, and over at least a few of my next brews I'll be shooting for it, one of which I'm hoping will be a NEIPA (my first actually, after decades of brewing off and on). As with anything else there are conflicting opinions on, it'll come down to trying it and seeing what changes.

Also as an unanticipated effect, my fermentations are actually more vigorous to the point I need blow offs more often than not

I've been thinking that pitched yeast might end up underneath settled trub and may be stifled a bit.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I've been thinking that pitched yeast might end up underneath settled trub and may be stifled a bit.

I've mostly used A24 dry hop as my yeast of choice and have been using it when I was getting a good bit of trub into the fermenter and since Ive tried to minimize trub. Haven't noticed a difference in attenuation either way and I typically get ~78-82% AA no matter what. SO I don't think this particular yeast blend gets stifled by trub. Its a beast. After fermentation is over and I soft crash, I always can see the banding pattern at the bottom of my fermonster with trub on bottom followed by yeast on top. Then after dry hopping and cold crashing, the dy hops settle on top fo the bright colored yeast.

 

[kingmatt]

I did a triple batch recently with Verdant vs S33 vs US04. After some aging the Verdant tastes amazing and attenuation was very high - crisp and very easy to drink - no sharp edges. The S04 is really good, more body and sweetness but it totally accentuated the oat malt! It has so much oat malt flavor! The S33 is a bust so far. Weird sulfury character. I must have abused it somehow.

are there lower attenuation dry yeasts that are good in this style?

From what I've read, first generation Verdant is higher in attenuation than future generations.

I recently brewed a Mango NEIPA using 1 pack of re-hydrated Verdant and it turned out fantastic. It may be replacing Imperial A24 as my go-to NEIPA yeast going forward.

 

[tracer bullet]

Haven't noticed a difference in attenuation either way and I typically get ~78-82% AA no matter what. SO I don't think this particular yeast blend gets stifled by trub.

I meant the trub might make them a bit slow to start. Once they're active I'm sure they are happily cruising around the bulk of the wort doing their yeasty things. In regards to your thought that low trub = more active fermentation.

 

[couchsending]

Trub contains so many compounds that are not great for fermenting or finished beer. You just don’t want it in there for any reason. There are lots of breweries that actually centrifuge their wort before it goes into the fermenter to keep trub out and increase yield.

It can lead to off flavors, fermentation issues, poor head retention, premature staling etc. You want to create the best possible environment for the yeast. They’re the ones who make the beer. If you’re concerned with the nutrients Trub might add just add some zinc to the fermenter (the right amount is important).

 

[CrookedElbowBrewing]

I whirlpool and let it settle for about 30min. Most of the hops/trub stays in the kettle. I used to filter the wort with a kitchen strainer when filling up the fermenter but it would clog up with hops and was a mess so I skipped that step and I couldn’t tell the difference honestly. I think the brulosophy guys did an all in trub batch vs minimal trub into the fermenter and the only difference was the beer (might have been a pale) cleared more in the fermenter that had all the kettle trub/hops added. I just did a split batch into 2 fermenters and the one I filled last definitely had more trub. They had different yeast/DH but both turned out tasty and had the same hazy orange color.

 

[Dgallo]

I whirlpool and let it settle for about 30min. Most of the hops/trub stays in the kettle. I used to filter the wort with a kitchen strainer when filling up the fermenter but it would clog up with hops and was a mess so I skipped that step and I couldn’t tell the difference honestly. I think the brulosophy guys did an all in trub batch vs minimal trub into the fermenter and the only difference was the beer (might have been a pale) cleared more in the fermenter that had all the kettle trub/hops added. I just did a split batch into 2 fermenters and the one I filled last definitely had more trub. They had different yeast/DH but both turned out tasty and had the same hazy orange color.

I will add that If a beer clears more, that body will certainly change. Also adding trub in the fermenter will certainly have an negative impact on head retention and will increase the risk of hopburn. Will a beer still be good if you transfer trub yes, but I stand firm on this one that you can’t produce the best beer possible if you transfer excess trub in the fv.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Any thoughts on using whirlfloc, But then still transferring all of the trub into the fermenter? I usually don’t use it, but I have used it a number of times and transferred everything into the FV. It’s interesting because you can see all of the proteins coagulate and drop to the bottom with a significantly different texture than if you didn’t use it. But they’re still in the fermenter.

Obviously, the idea is to use it and leave all of those coagulated proteins behind, but when I’ve used it and transferred everything into the fermenter, They just stick to the bottom kind of like glue. So I wonder if you get a similar effect by doing this.

To clarify, if you use whirlfloc, And clump all of that trub up nicely, but then still transfer it all into the fermenter, are you getting a similar effect to if you made a concerted effort to specifically leave the trub behind?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I use whirfloc and transfer some trub as I mentioned, the last half gallon in a 17.5 gallon batch has some trub in it but not nearly any significant amount, and certainly never transfer all, I leave 3 gallon of trub in the bottom of my kettle.

 

[skleice]

How many of you use whirlfloc for these beers?

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I use whirfloc, and my numbers are similar to @bailey mountain brewer. ON my 5gallong finished batches, Im typically leaving 1gallon behind from the kettle into the fermenter. My brewhouse efficiency is low because of it (65%) but I think its worth it for the finished beer to minimize trub. Beers still turn out hazy too.

 

[aaronm13]

I try to leave as much as possible but some definitely gets in. I must wait a while to let things settle more before transferring. I do hang a hop spider on my fermenter and run the hose through it. This filters out a lot too.

 

[tracer bullet]

I do hang a hop spider on my fermenter and run the hose through it. This filters out a lot too.

I'm going to try that as well on my next brew, let the hops float freely throughout the brew but then funny enough use the spider afterwards to clear them out. If it doesn't work I'll have to suck it up and learn to wait for it to fall out in the kettle first. I'm just not normally very patient.

OK - thanks everyone, sorry to stray off the topic, but it seemed like it was pretty related and might be a good spot. Especially since it'll help me make my own NEIPA here in the near future.

I appreciate it!

 

[Beerdrinker85]

Stupid question but as I have a conical fermenter, is it ok to dump trub from the bottom valve after 24/36h when fermentation is kicking on? I always wonder after 6 years of brewing if it will suck some needed yeast with the trub.

 

[Dgallo]

Stupid question but as I have a conical fermenter, is it ok to dump trub from the bottom valve after 24/36h when fermentation is kicking on? I always wonder after 6 years of brewing if it will suck some needed yeast with the trub.

How’s your sterilization and speed of cooling? You could always rack it from the kettle to your fv. Then crash it to 50 let the trub settle and dump it. Then pitch your yeast and let it warm back up to temp, preferably at a healthy cell count and while active.