New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[jturman35]

Can anyone recommend a good hop schedule for using Mosaic/Simcoe/Amarillo ? I am using up some old hops and want to give this a whirl. I have done Simcoe Amarillo before and it turned out pretty good. Unfortunately i will be using WLP002 on this batch instead of Imperial Juice. I think the hot side is ok just not sure how to approach the dry hops.

.5oz Warrior @ 60

2oz Mosaic WP
1oz Simcoe WP
1oz Amarillo WP

 

[tbaldwin000]

In my experience, LA3 leaves things much more opaque than Conan. I haven't experimented with too many other yeasts, but it seems that there's tons of yeast that stays in suspension in the LA3 brews, thus the look.

It's not yeast that causes the haze, it's protein complexing with polyphenols. There does seem to be a yeast aspect to it, which I imagine is mostly to do with one of these two things:

1.) Some yeast will degrade more soluble protein during fermentation than others, leaving less to complex with hop polyphenols during the dry hop.
2.) Some yeast will tend to attach to soluble protein and cause it to flocculate out of the beer with the yeast.

What I will say, is that I have yet to find a single yeast that doesn't allow for a stable haze if the yeast is first removed from the beer before a low temperature dry hop, and that includes Conan. WLP644 is probably the worst for this, as you have to crash at 0C for days and days to get it to flocc out enough.

 

[ThatVideoKid]

It doesn't look bad by any means. In my experience, LA3 leaves things much more opaque than Conan. I haven't experimented with too many other yeasts, but it seems that there's tons of yeast that stays in suspension in the LA3 brews, thus the look.

Another factor is dry hopping early. 500% if you dry hop early on in fermentation, then your beer will be clearer than a later hop.

Yeah I may have to try the whole yeast blending thing, because I really prefer the conan attenuation.

This did get a Day 2 dryhop, so that could be it too. I'll have to try the whole 50 degree thing. Normally I've had the haze stick around with keg hopping though.

 

[ThatVideoKid]

It's not yeast that causes the haze, it's protein complexing with polyphenols. There does seem to be a yeast aspect to it, which I imagine is mostly to do with one of these two things:

1.) Some yeast will degrade more soluble protein during fermentation than others, leaving less to complex with hop polyphenols during the dry hop.
2.) Some yeast will tend to attach to soluble protein and cause it to flocculate out of the beer with the yeast.

What I will say, is that I have yet to find a single yeast that doesn't allow for a stable haze if the yeast is first removed from the beer before a low temperature dry hop, and that includes Conan. WLP644 is probably the worst for this, as you have to crash at 0C for days and days to get it to flocc out enough.

This why I think my kitchen sink maltbill is to blame on this one. If you exceed a certain level, it actually ends up creating clearer beer than if you just did like 90% pils and 10% oats.

 

[tbaldwin000]

This why I think my kitchen sink maltbill is to blame on this one. If you exceed a certain level, it actually ends up creating clearer beer than if you just did like 90% pils and 10% oats.

I can't say that's an experience I have had, and I have messed with some very protein rich grists. What was your dry hop process?

 

[Dgallo]

This why I think my kitchen sink maltbill is to blame on this one. If you exceed a certain level, it actually ends up creating clearer beer than if you just did like 90% pils and 10% oats.

Any thing with higher molecular weight will drop out of suspension. Malted grains have shorter protein chains with smaller molecular weight than flaked grains. Also dryhoping during fermentation causes proteins and polyphenol to bind causing greater molecular weight. This will cause greater clearing in a beer overtime. Also protein become more attracted to itself the larger the chains get. That will cause even more clearing

 

[ThatVideoKid]

I can't say that's an experience I have had, and I have messed with some very protein rich grists. What was your dry hop process?

Supposedly at a certain level the proteins clump together and precipitate out, leaving less protein behind than if you starter with a lower protein grist. I could be wrong tho.

On this one I split the dryhop between krausen and keg. This has worked fine for me previously, but those might have been flukes.

Next time I’m going to try the whole 50° dryhop thing.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I think spelt definitely has something to offer that white wheat does not. I did a spelt NEIPA and posted it here a little while ago here in this thread: New England IPA - "Northeast" style IPA. Mine was 75% 2 row, 20% spelt, and 5% CaraFoam. Beer came out great and was most definitely the "softest and pillowiest" by far that Ive made where Ive mostly done my NEIPAs with combos of wheat/oats. This was also the first NEIPA I made with zero oats so I wasn't sure if my experience was due to the spelt or the fact that Ive never done an NEIPA without oats (which I still love BTW). So now I'm carbing up another NEIPA but this time substituted the 20% spelt for 20% white wheat. Its not super scientific: hopped them different, but used same water profile and yeast. At a first glance, the one with white wheat (which isn't fully carved or in its "prime" yet as Im 4 days post kegging) is great and has very nice mouthfeel but I definitely think the spelt one was softer and more "fluffy" which I absolutely love. The white wheat is still light and soft but its like the beer is more viscous/chewy - not necessarily bad at all because I dig both beers. But they are definitely different. When this beer that is currently carbonated with the 20% white wheat is done - I will do my best to produce the best beer porn pic ever, but admittedly - I don't have the talent/patience for the slow pour to put on a foam cap that @Dgallo just posted today. That damn post looked like he put a soft serve ice cream on top of that awesome beer! lol.

So just revisiting this since my last post. This is the Waimea, Citra, Nectaron combo with 75% 2 row, 20% white wheat, and 5% carafoam. Even though this was hopped differently than the beer I did with 20% spelt instead of white wheat, I do think that the spelt beer's mouthfeel is superior in terms of the light, pillow softness compared to this one. I really think this is a solid beer with 20% white wheat, but mouthfeel isn't the same. I also am thinking that the spelt based beer had a better head retention as well. Anyhow, I am also please with this hop combo. VERY citrus/stonefruit forward with balanced assertive bitterness and pine.

 

[aaronm13]

Won my first homebrew competition on Friday with my Citra/Nelson DIPA. It scored a 39.5 so delighted with it considering all the issues I had with the stuck fermentation. It did turn out really good and is such a fantastic hop combination. I'm all out of Nelson now so will have to get more but might hold on as the 2021 batch should be out soon enough.

What would be another hop to add to this mix, might help my citra and nelson to go a bit further.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Won my first homebrew competition on Friday with my Citra/Nelson DIPA. It scored a 39.5 so delighted with it considering all the issues I had with the stuck fermentation. It did turn out really good and is such a fantastic hop combination. I'm all out of Nelson now so will have to get more but might hold on as the 2021 batch should be out soon enough.

What would be another hop to add to this mix, might help my citra and nelson to go a bit further.

Awesome stuff. Mind sharing your hop ratios for hotside and cold side? Also what Nelson year was this?

 

[R.A.I.D]

What would be another hop to add to this mix, might help my citra and nelson to go a bit further.

I have a Citra, Nelson, Motueka on my TODO after trying a lovely commercial Nelson and Motueka.
I think it will be Citra hot side and Nelson and Motueka in dry hop (1:1).

 

[harpsbight]

I am looking to brew an all citra version of the original grain bill using wy 1318. does the following hop schedule look right?
1 oz @ 60
2 oz WP @ 180
5 oz DH
any and all advice appreciated.

 

[jturman35]

I keep finding more and more ways to improve my dry hop process.

I just added my dry hops Mosaic/Simcoe/Amarillo into the hop keg and using fermentation c02 from my conical to purge this and the serving keg at the same time. I am using the hop spider with the hole drilled through the top to filter hops once I'm ready to transfer to the serving keg. I believe this gives a hell of a lot better contact with the beer. My only concern is the temperature in my garage is probably hitting 80 or so degrees while i am waiting on the fermentation to purge.

At some point I am planning on getting a longer line from my conical- dry hop keg and throwing my hop keg in the keezer during the fermentation process. I figure at least the hops are cold rather than 80 deg. Surely this would benefit having the hops cold? I just need to figure out how to run a line into my keezer.

Anyone else have experience cooling the hop keg while using the co2 from fermentation?

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I am looking to brew an all citra version of the original grain bill using wy 1318. does the following hop schedule look right?
1 oz @ 60
2 oz WP @ 180
5 oz DH
any and all advice appreciated.

Whats the OG of this beer and your intended IBUs? Hard to comment without knowing the OG and your intended IBUs.

 

[Dgallo]

Whats the OG of this beer and your intended IBUs? Hard to comment without knowing the OG and your intended IBUs.

And batch size

 

[harpsbight]

Whats the OG of this beer and your intended IBUs? Hard to comment without knowing the OG and your intended IBUs.

And batch size

5 Gallon batch aiming for ~50 ibu. OG should be 1.060.
Thanks!

 

[aaronm13]

Awesome stuff. Mind sharing your hop ratios for hotside and cold side? Also what Nelson year was this?

So the hops are as follows. I use metric so will convert as best as I can.

10 minutes left in boil
Citra T90 - 15g (0.52oz) & Nelson 15g/0.52oz

Whirlpool 30 minutes at 75C/167F
Citra T 90 - 70g/ 2.46oz
Nelson Sauvin 70g/2.46oz

Dy hop @ 10C/50F for 24 hours then cold crash for 36-48 hours
Citra T 90 - 85g/3oz
Citra Lupomax - 113g/4oz
Nelson Sauvin - 113g/4oz

After 2 weeks in the keg I wasn't overly happy with how things were tasting so I added
Citra T 90 - 35g/1.23oz
Nelson Sauvin - 15g/0.52oz

This completely changed the beer for the better so I really need to figure out how to split the dry hop into 2 batches as I've started purging the dry hop keg and serving keg with fermentation but I really wouldn't like to add half of that amount of hops to the serving keg and leave them in it for the duration of the beer. I also don't want to have to transfer to a second keg to dry hop or go back to adding some to the fermenter after fermentation is finished. Transfers are so easy since I stopped adding to the fermenter and I really think dry hopping is aided by agitation which I can't do in my fermenter as I don't have a dump valve on my SS Brewtec bucket.

 

[aaronm13]

I have a Citra, Nelson, Motueka on my TODO after trying a lovely commercial Nelson and Motueka.
I think it will be Citra hot side and Nelson and Motueka in dry hop (1:1).

I tried a few beers with Motueka but wasn't a fan. Did't like the lime profile of it. Might need to try some more examples.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Dy hop @ 10C/50F for 24 hours then cold crash for 36-48 hours
Citra T 90 - 85g/3oz
Citra Lupomax - 113g/4oz
Nelson Sauvin - 113g/4oz

After 2 weeks in the keg I wasn't overly happy with how things were tasting so I added
Citra T 90 - 35g/1.23oz
Nelson Sauvin - 15g/0.52oz

This completely changed the beer for the better

Are you convinced that the improvement is from dry hopping in two steps? Or could it be just the larger total dry hop amount?

 

[aaronm13]

Are you convinced that the improvement is from dry hopping in two steps? Or could it be just the larger total dry hop amount?

I definitely think it's down to double dry hopping. I brewed this exact same beer back to back with just one difference. In V1 after a few weeks in the keg I felt the Nelson was a little over powering and hop flavor and aroma was just overall lacking. So I added and extra 35g/1.23oz of T90 citra to the serving keg and the beer was awesome, exactly what I wanted.

So for V2 I included this extra citra in the over all hop bill thinking it would turn out just as good. It was again lacking but the balance was a lot better. Again after the second small addition it transformed the beer for the better. So my highly scientific research leads me to think double dry hopping is best.

It's actually a fun an interesting experiment to brew the same beer back to back to really get an insight into your processes and recipe.

 

[R.A.I.D]

I really wouldn't like to add half of that amount of hops to the serving keg and leave them in it for the duration of the beer.

So you could rig up two dry hop kegs and a serving keg in serial and fermentation flush everything.

Or liquid flush the serving keg if you don't think the fermentation generates enough co2 to flush three kegs.
You can turn the first DH keg into the liquid flushed serving keg, if you are low on kegs.


Or suspend a dry hop bag from the hook in the lid of your serving keg. If the wire has the right length you will only have contact with the dry hops until you have tapped the first few beers.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Ok so life just got in the way for this weekend, I was gonna brew a neipa for a pigroast I host every year which is on July 17th this year. Basically my next available brew day would be July 3rd which gives me exactly 14 days to get it from grain to glass. I have used kveik in the past in my neipa with decent results, dont like it as much as others but I think it will be my best option. So here's my thoughts, I brew 15 gallon batches 17.5 in the fermenter. I brew on July 3rd, pitch Omega voss kveik at say 90f to 95f and hold that for a couple days, check gravity, once around 1.018, hopefully by July 8th, crash to 40f do a yeast dump (conical) and then dry hop at 50f for 3days, on July 11th cold crash to 36f, this is as cold as I can get with my set up, sometimes only 38f. Leave it crash for 48 hours and keg July 13th or 14th, Force carb the hell out of and be ready to serve by the 17th. This beer will likely be around 1.064 to 1.070 OG and dry hop at about 1.25 oz per gallon. I have not set this recipe in stone yet so those are ballpark numbers. Any thoughs or input/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Being that I want to underpitch the kviek I was thinking about just using 1 full pack of omega voss in the 17 gallon batch. Not sure if that is to much of an under pitch, if so Ill have plenty of time to build up enough of a starter, any recommend pitch rate there would be appreciated also. My concern is the beer being to green and to avoid hop burn as much as possible, with a 14 day window well who knows, maybe it will ferment out quicker then I expect and it will have a couple more days to mellow, maybe it won't and ill just have to serve what I have on hand. Sorry for the long post guys!
Cheers!

 

[R.A.I.D]

any recommend pitch rate there would be appreciated

2-3g for 5 gal for kveik is a valid underpitch

 

[Noob_Brewer]

5 Gallon batch aiming for ~50 ibu. OG should be 1.060.
Thanks!

I know that some here have IBUs that you are shooting for and it would probably end of very good. My personal preference is to be a bit lower in the mid30-mid40 range. But again that's personal preference. My thought here would instead of just using 1oz at 60min, I would have an addition at 5 or 10min left in the boil as well. Something like .50oz at 60min and .50oz at 5 or 10min would lower the IBUs but likely add some more flavor from the boil and pre-whirlpool. Whirlpool temps and duration vary widely around here and it always comes down to personal preference in the end. So IMHO, I would tend increase the WP addition slightly to perhaps 3oz. Lastly given that your OG is 1.060 so your end beer will be in the low 6% ABV range, 5oz in the DH isn't so bad. I typically would do 6oz for lower ABV NEIPAs and others here will probably add more than that as well. Again - personal preference. In the end, none of this will matter if you don't have good oxygen control processes on the cold side. So if you have a good handle on that aspect, Im sure your beer will turn out fine.

Cheers!

 

[flip_88]

Don’t worry about that far out. You’ll be finished fermenting 1318 at day 5 or so if you pitch a healthy amount of yeast. This schedule always worked for me;

Pitch at 66-68*

let free rise to 72-74 and hold there for 3-4 days

Then let it naturally fall between 70-72 and hold it 2 days or more to clean up.

Crash to drop yeast. Then dryhop somewhere from 50-58*f

thanks for the info!Sorry for the late response. How long do you typically soft crash before throwing the in the dry hops? 12 hours at 50* and then throw the dry hop in?

 

[Dgallo]

thanks for the info!Sorry for the late response. How long do you typically soft crash before throwing the in the dry hops? 12 hours at 50* and then throw the dry hop in?

It’s been my experience tht you need at least 18-30 hr with the beer actually at that temperature

 

[Noob_Brewer]

thanks for the info!Sorry for the late response. How long do you typically soft crash before throwing the in the dry hops? 12 hours at 50* and then throw the dry hop in?

Im usually at 36hrs but that's more due to my time than anything, but at least 24hrs at 50. I just got my beer to 50 late last night at 11pm. So I will prob DH tomorrow around noon where my schedule allows. So that's about 36 hrs. Been working for me.

Contemplating DHing at 50-52 for the first time rather than bumping it up to 58-60 which is my norm.

 

[flip_88]

Im usually at 36hrs but that's more due to my time than anything, but at least 24hrs at 50. I just got my beer to 50 late last night at 11pm. So I will prob DH tomorrow around noon where my schedule allows. So that's about 36 hrs. Been working for me.

Contemplating DHing at 50-52 for the first time rather than bumping it up to 58-60 which is my norm.

thanks for the help man!

 

[flip_88]

It’s been my experience tht you need at least 18-30 hr with the beer actually at that temperature

thank You!

 

[1bottlerocket]

This is my third attempt at this particular style. It has been a long journey to get it to this point.