New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[couchsending]

what are you #oz/gal dryhop rate for a 6.5-7% ish neipa?

2ish oz/gallon

 

[Noob_Brewer]

That looks absolutely fantastic. Has a real Omnipollo look to it with the ice cream type head. So are you sold on spelt now? Can't wait to see how the other batch turns out.

I think spelt definitely has something to offer that white wheat does not. I did a spelt NEIPA and posted it here a little while ago here in this thread: New England IPA - "Northeast" style IPA. Mine was 75% 2 row, 20% spelt, and 5% CaraFoam. Beer came out great and was most definitely the "softest and pillowiest" by far that Ive made where Ive mostly done my NEIPAs with combos of wheat/oats. This was also the first NEIPA I made with zero oats so I wasn't sure if my experience was due to the spelt or the fact that Ive never done an NEIPA without oats (which I still love BTW). So now I'm carbing up another NEIPA but this time substituted the 20% spelt for 20% white wheat. Its not super scientific: hopped them different, but used same water profile and yeast. At a first glance, the one with white wheat (which isn't fully carved or in its "prime" yet as Im 4 days post kegging) is great and has very nice mouthfeel but I definitely think the spelt one was softer and more "fluffy" which I absolutely love. The white wheat is still light and soft but its like the beer is more viscous/chewy - not necessarily bad at all because I dig both beers. But they are definitely different. When this beer that is currently carbonated with the 20% white wheat is done - I will do my best to produce the best beer porn pic ever, but admittedly - I don't have the talent/patience for the slow pour to put on a foam cap that @Dgallo just posted today. That damn post looked like he put a soft serve ice cream on top of that awesome beer! lol.

 

[Frieds]

Do you find any noticeable change in taste when using spelt over wheat or oats?

 

[thehaze]

Anyone used Citra, Enigma and Nectaron together? I am thinking more Enigma in the whirlpool, and a focus on Nectaron and Citra in the dry hop. A small DH charge of Enigma, just to play in the background.

 

[couchsending]

Anyone used Citra, Enigma and Nectaron together? I am thinking more Enigma in the whirlpool, and a focus on Nectaron and Citra in the dry hop. A small DH charge of Enigma, just to play in the background.

I’m sure it would be wonderful. I recently did Nectaron/586/Citra where I split the ferment and dry hopped one fermenter with 2:1 Nectaron:586 and the other 2:1 586:Nectaron. Both got the same amount of Citra, roughly 10-15%. Definitely some of the craziest tropical expression I’ve ever created with hops. If you haven’t used 586 yet it’s pretty unique but also pretty great. None of the weird woody aspects like Sabro and Talus.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Do you find any noticeable change in taste when using spelt over wheat or oats?

This is honestly pretty difficult to say for me because I hopped them differently so obviously the resounding flavors are already different. I do think that spelt seems to have a little bit more malty/sweetness compared to white wheat, but that's all I can really detect as far as flavor goes.

As far as oats goes, I still love oats but when used in high %s, I do think they can tend to make for a "heavier" feel compared to spelt and white wheat. Oats for me, (flaked in particular) adds a nice slickness that can come across as "juicy" to me. So now, Im trying out a NEIPA with spelt and malted oats in a 1.5:1 ratio in favor of spelt to see if I can't find a happy medium. Nevertheless - 75% 2 row, 20% spelt, and 5% CaraFoam makes for a great NEIPA grain bill.

 

[couchsending]

For me Spelt has a much more nutty/earthy flavor to it than wheat. I haven’t used it for many hoppy beer but use it for saison and mixed ferm beers and have used it for a few lagers as well. Not sure in a highly hopped beer you’d pick up on the the flavor impact as much.

 

[thehaze]

I’m sure it would be wonderful. I recently did Nectaron/586/Citra where I split the ferment and dry hopped one fermenter with 2:1 Nectaron:586 and the other 2:1 586:Nectaron. Both got the same amount of Citra, roughly 10-15%. Definitely some of the craziest tropical expression I’ve ever created with hops. If you haven’t used 586 yet it’s pretty unique but also pretty great. None of the weird woody aspects like Sabro and Talus.

Thank you. I will try my hand at the above mentioned combo.

I am also planning on using Talus, but in a Smash - sort of. A well hopped Pils, with Pilsner malt, lager yeast and Talus - dry hopping as well. I like having a crisp Pils in the keg during summer. So you say that Talus showcases some of the woody character? Is it as proeminent as Sabro?

 

[couchsending]

Thank you. I will try my hand at the above mentioned combo.

I am also planning on using Talus, but in a Smash - sort of. A well hopped Pils, with Pilsner malt, lager yeast and Talus - dry hopping as well. I like having a crisp Pils in the keg during summer. So you say that Talus showcases some of the woody character? Is it as proeminent as Sabro?

I think the wood character or Talis is actually stronger than Sabro but the other flavors/aromas seem to make sense somehow. It’s a more old school profile where as Sabro is all tropical and then hits you with cedar which is totally out of place. The woody aspect works better in Talus. I think a lager is a great idea. I’ve made an all Zappa dry hopped lager that really went over well with folks. It also has that woody Neomexicanus aspect to it. Seems to work with a clean ferment and a bit of sulfur

 

[flip_88]

I typically only use 1318 for NEIPAs. Does this look like a good fermentation temp schedule?

Day 1-3 @ 66*
Day 4@ 68*
Day 5 @ 70*
Day 6 @ 72*
Day 7 @ 72*

And finish at 72* until fermentation is done.

 

[Dgallo]

I typically only use 1318 for NEIPAs. Does this look like a good fermentation temp schedule?

Day 1-3 @ 66*
Day 4@ 68*
Day 5 @ 70*
Day 6 @ 72*
Day 7 @ 72*

And finish at 72* until fermentation is done.

You can run it at 72-74 at day 2-4 to force more ester production

 

[flip_88]

You can run it at 72-74 at day 2-4 to force more ester production

So maybe on Day 8 and 9.. run it at 73 and then 74? Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.

 

[Dgallo]

So maybe on Day 8 and 9.. run it at 73 and then 74? Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.

Don’t worry about that far out. You’ll be finished fermenting 1318 at day 5 or so if you pitch a healthy amount of yeast. This schedule always worked for me;

Pitch at 66-68*

let free rise to 72-74 and hold there for 3-4 days

Then let it naturally fall between 70-72 and hold it 2 days or more to clean up.

Crash to drop yeast. Then dryhop somewhere from 50-58*f

 

[crusader1612]

Has anyone done an All Sabro version???

Interested to hear thoughts.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I typically only use 1318 for NEIPAs. Does this look like a good fermentation temp schedule?

Day 1-3 @ 66*
Day 4@ 68*
Day 5 @ 70*
Day 6 @ 72*
Day 7 @ 72*

And finish at 72* until fermentation is done.

Im running the Juice now. Pitched at 67 on Sunday at 5pm and let it get to 69-70 by the 19hr mark and once the high krausen had passed, let it free rise to 71 prior to bed time last night. This morning (~36hrs post pitch) I let it rise to 72-73 and this is where its holding now. Purring like a kitten.

 

[couchsending]

Has anyone done an All Sabro version???

Interested to hear thoughts.

3 years ago

I will never brew with Sabro again and hope to never have a beer that uses it again.

Tropical Fruit + Cedar is a horrible horrible combo.

Hop smells insane from the bag. It ends there

 

[Beerdrinker85]

Has anyone done an All Sabro version???

Interested to hear thoughts.

I just bought a pound of it and it will be next after I try a 12oz of all galaxy 2017 just for fun. I'm bored of citra/mosaic and discovered 3*8oz of unopened galaxy 2017 crop that smell fresh and fruity but never had succes with it for flavor.

 

[Beerdrinker85]

3 years ago

I will never brew with Sabro again and hope to never have a beer that uses it again.

Tropical Fruit + Cedar is a horrible horrible combo.

Hop smells insane from the bag. It ends there

I am one of the lucky person that never taste/smell cedar from Sabro. I drank a lot of neipa with sabro in it and it's my favorite hop of 2020. Brewed a lot of neipa with sabro and it was one of the best. Only 1 time I had coconut flavor from Sabro rest of it is 100% tropical creamy.

 

[Frieds]

Don’t worry about that far out. You’ll be finished fermenting 1318 at day 5 or so if you pitch a healthy amount of yeast. This schedule always worked for me;

Pitch at 66-68*

let free rise to 72-74 and hold there for 3-4 days

Then let it naturally fall between 70-72 and hold it 2 days or more to clean up.

Crash to drop yeast. Then dryhop somewhere from 50-58*f

I’ll second this. I almost exclusively brew with LA3 and this is almost bang on what I do as well.

 

[kingmatt]

I am one of the lucky person that never taste/smell cedar from Sabro. I drank a lot of neipa with sabro in it and it's my favorite hop of 2020. Brewed a lot of neipa with sabro and it was one of the best. Only 1 time I had coconut flavor from Sabro rest of it is 100% tropical creamy.

I've never experienced the "woody" character some people complain about with from Sabro but I do get coconut pretty consistently. I enjoy it with other hops but I'm not sure I'd like it in a single hop beer.

 

[aaronm13]

3 years ago

I will never brew with Sabro again and hope to never have a beer that uses it again.

Tropical Fruit + Cedar is a horrible horrible combo.

Hop smells insane from the bag. It ends there

I'm totally with you on that. The smell when I opened the bag was insane but the flavor does nothing for me.

 

[aaronm13]

I think spelt definitely has something to offer that white wheat does not. I did a spelt NEIPA and posted it here a little while ago here in this thread: New England IPA - "Northeast" style IPA. Mine was 75% 2 row, 20% spelt, and 5% CaraFoam. Beer came out great and was most definitely the "softest and pillowiest" by far that Ive made where Ive mostly done my NEIPAs with combos of wheat/oats. This was also the first NEIPA I made with zero oats so I wasn't sure if my experience was due to the spelt or the fact that Ive never done an NEIPA without oats (which I still love BTW). So now I'm carbing up another NEIPA but this time substituted the 20% spelt for 20% white wheat. Its not super scientific: hopped them different, but used same water profile and yeast. At a first glance, the one with white wheat (which isn't fully carved or in its "prime" yet as Im 4 days post kegging) is great and has very nice mouthfeel but I definitely think the spelt one was softer and more "fluffy" which I absolutely love. The white wheat is still light and soft but its like the beer is more viscous/chewy - not necessarily bad at all because I dig both beers. But they are definitely different. When this beer that is currently carbonated with the 20% white wheat is done - I will do my best to produce the best beer porn pic ever, but admittedly - I don't have the talent/patience for the slow pour to put on a foam cap that @Dgallo just posted today. That damn post looked like he put a soft serve ice cream on top of that awesome beer! lol.

I'm going to try spelt on my next batch to see as I've really settled on 20% wheat and 8% oat malt as the sweet spot for me so very curious to see what subbing them out with spelt brings to the table.

 

[Dgallo]

Haven’t brewed a NEIPA in a while but I’m going to end up doing a split 12 gallon batch(6gal into both fermenters)this week at some point

Water
Ca: 120
Mg: 16
Cl: 230
Na: 84
So4: 138
5.3 ph

grains
77% - 2row
20% - spelt
3% - honey malt

Mash
40 mins - 146
30 mins - 162
10 mins - mash out

yeast
Imperial a24 - dryhop
(0.65 million cell/ml/*p)

Hotside hops
Columbus t90 @ 60 & 10 - target 30ibu

whirlpool @ 170*f for 20 mins
Columbus LUPOMAX
Cascade LUPOMAX
1:1 ratio

Dryhop FV 1
Enigma
Nelson
Mosaic LUPOMAX
2:1:1
(Going for dank assorted berry profile

Dryhop FV 2
Bru-1 t90 & LUPOMAX
Vic Secret
Sabro LUPOMAX
2:1:1
(Going for pineapple/island tropical profile)

softcrashing and dryhoping at 56-58*f

Will follow up when in the keg

FV2 has now been tapped, as a recap it was hopped hotside with cascade and Columbus LUPOMAX and then dryhopped with Bru1 LUPOMAX & T90, Vic secret, and Citra LUPOMAX(decided to deviate from the original plan of Sabro)This beer Is special. Pineapple and tropical fruit with bright Citra character and an over all true hop flavor profile. It truly taste like a monkish beer which makes me happy. Definitely one of the hop combos I highly suggest you try. On top of that, try spelt malt at 20-25% and no other body building grains. It really seems to do wonders for the mouthfeel

 

[Noob_Brewer]

FV2 has now been tapped, as a recap it was hopped hotside with cascade and Columbus LUPOMAX and then dryhopped with Bru1 LUPOMAX & T90, Vic secret, and Citra LUPOMAX(decided to deviate from the original plan of Sabro)This beer Is special. Pineapple and tropical fruit with bright Citra character and an over all true hop flavor profile. It truly taste like a monkish beer which makes me happy. Definitely one of the hop combos I highly suggest you try. On top of that, try spelt malt at 20-25% and no other body building grains. It really seems to do wonders for the mouthfeel View attachment 732596

Curious on the water profile. Ive been running with 175:110 for Cl:SO4 which is actually close to your ratio but your values are certainly more elevated. You think you are getting the softness you want with these values? Never gone above 200 Cl myself. Beer looks great BTW.

 

[couchsending]

Curious on the water profile. Ive been running with 175:110 for Cl:SO4 which is actually close to your ratio but your values are certainly more elevated. You think you are getting the softness you want with these values? Never gone above 200 Cl myself. Beer looks great BTW.

CL has zero to do with “softness”. It helps to build a perception of body and length on the palate/sweetness. There’s no water salt that makes anything “soft”.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

CL has zero to do with “softness”. It helps to build a perception of body and length on the palate/sweetness. There’s no water salt that makes anything “soft”.

Good catch, poor choice of words. I was actually meaning it to reflect the body/mouthfeel.

 

[beervoid]

Recently had a single nectaron neipa, must say the diesel notes where substantial.

 

[couchsending]

Recently had a single nectaron neipa, must say the diesel notes where substantial.

Huh. I’ve never picked up any of the NZ diesel in any Nectaron beer I’ve had or made. Literally the least diesely hop from NZ I’ve probably used.

 

[beervoid]

Huh. I’ve never picked up any of the NZ diesel in any Nectaron beer I’ve had or made. Literally the least diesely hop from NZ I’ve probably used.

Neither did I the one lot I used for homebrews.
I'm getting very weary brewing with NZ or AU hops lately, they really need to up their game in terms of processing hops.
Last batch of Nelson Sauvin was a drain pour, absolutely no Nelson flavor at all, very hard pellets 2020 harvest

 

[Frieds]

Not so much brewing related, but I’m drinking this Other Half x Fidens collab right now and it is unreal. This is the benchmark for me. A completely perfect beer from start to finish.

 

[beervoid]

Not so much brewing related, but I’m drinking this Other Half x Fidens collab right now and it is unreal. This is the benchmark for me. A completely perfect beer from start to finish.

That looks super murky, isnt it yeasty? Or is that just the photo

 

[Dgallo]

That looks super murky, isnt it yeasty? Or is that just the photo

Steve uses around 40-50% oats in his grain bills and I’m pretty sure OH used his grain bill for it, so it’s certainly murky but not yeasty. The fiden’s version was the best beer I’ve had in a long time.

 

[beervoid]

Steve uses around 40-50% oats in his grain bills and I’m pretty sure OH used his grain bill for it, so it’s certainly murky but not yeasty. The fiden’s version was the best beer I’ve had in a long time. View attachment 732638

Ok.
Other Half beers can also be crazy murky, but yeah seem to taste fine.

 

[Frieds]

That looks super murky, isnt it yeasty? Or is that just the photo

Not the best lighting in my kitchen for beertography.

 

[Frieds]

Steve uses around 40-50% oats in his grain bills and I’m pretty sure OH used his grain bill for it, so it’s certainly murky but not yeasty. The fiden’s version was the best beer I’ve had in a long time. View attachment 732638

I’m jealous. The Untappd rating on the beer is crazy.

 

[braindead]

FV2 has now been tapped, as a recap it was hopped hotside with cascade and Columbus LUPOMAX and then dryhopped with Bru1 LUPOMAX & T90, Vic secret, and Citra LUPOMAX(decided to deviate from the original plan of Sabro)This beer Is special. Pineapple and tropical fruit with bright Citra character and an over all true hop flavor profile. It truly taste like a monkish beer which makes me happy. Definitely one of the hop combos I highly suggest you try. On top of that, try spelt malt at 20-25% and no other body building grains. It really seems to do wonders for the mouthfeel View attachment 732596

Looks awesome the pal. Has that milky looking Monkish style that ive been scratching my head how they do it.

 

[couchsending]

Looks awesome the pal. Has that milky looking Monkish style that ive been scratching my head how they do it.

3-4oz per gallon of Dry Hop with high polyphenol hops is how you get that Monkish look...

 

[secretlevel]

Neither did I the one lot I used for homebrews.
I'm getting very weary brewing with NZ or AU hops lately, they really need to up their game in terms of processing hops.
Last batch of Nelson Sauvin was a drain pour, absolutely no Nelson flavor at all, very hard pellets 2020 harvest

Was this from YVH?

 

[Dgallo]

Looks awesome the pal. Has that milky looking Monkish style that ive been scratching my head how they do it.

High polyphenol content. This can be achieved by higher dryhop rates, specific hops higher in polyphenols, and/or dryhoping with agitation. The later is what I did for both beers from this batch and for this specific beer the higher polyphenol amount in Vic secret definitely made this one look the way it did verse the other beer. Both beers were dryhoped at a rate of 1.8 oz per gallon but could technically be seen at 2oz/gallon for the enigma, mosaic, Nelson and 2.25 oz/gallon if you want to take the use of the t45 concentration in to account and not by actual weight.

 

[Dgallo]

Curious on the water profile. Ive been running with 175:110 for Cl:SO4 which is actually close to your ratio but your values are certainly more elevated. You think you are getting the softness you want with these values? Never gone above 200 Cl myself. Beer looks great BTW.

My typical water profile is similar to yours but I upped it this time to see if it changed anything body wise. It’s honestly hard for me to say for confidence that it made any true impact because it was also my first time using spelt as well but over all the beers are full and complete pillow out mid pallet