New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[couchsending]

question on aroma. I have been brewing this beer for awhile. Always turns out great. However I always feel the aroma is lacking. Maybe because I ve been drinking alot of King Sue lately at that aroma is off the charts. It smells like you just opened a huge bag of fresh Citra hops. I do closed transfer. Oxygen ingress is minimal. My beers stay perfectly color and flavor for months so its not oxidation. I do a single dry hop per his original suggestion and i do it like day 3. That dry hop sits in the Spike Conical for like 8 days after i drop it in . My theories to improve aroma are the following

1. Split the single dry hop (6 oz of C,M,G) into two 3 oz additions hoping the later DH will give me more aroma

2. Not DH so early and wait till 2 or 3 days before kegging to add DH to fermenter

3. Ferment under pressure to keep the aroma in. Ive read that pressure fermentation affects the taste of NEIPAs esp ester formation.

4. Add a keg hop to this recipe. This will put fresh hops in the keg and should boost aroma. But worried about vegetal flavor

any suggestion from you guys would be appreciated!

The reason you’re not getting the aroma is you’re adding dry hops too early into fermentation, plain and simple. You can split the hops if you want but I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think TG is adding dry hops during fermentation at all. You can tell it’s Citra with KS and PS. When you get pure expression of the hop and not muddled fruit that means the dry hops were added after fermentation.

Don’t ferment under pressure. Some yeasts can handle it, others can’t. If you think you want to try it I wouldn’t go over 7psi which means you’d need a spunding valve. It’s not necessary and you run the risk of a poor fermentation.

I’d add more than 6oz, especially if you have a conical fermenter and can dump hops. Try closer to 9oz.

If you have a spike conical and you want explosive aroma from your dry hops do this:

Wait until fermentation is complete and beer is negative for VDKs (do a forced diacetyl rest, it’s easy).

if you have the pressure transfer manifold add it when you see active fermentation is winding down but still getting some Co2 release. You don’t want pressure to build up very much in my opinion. Keep it below 5psI.

Cool to 60*

Wait for 24-36 hours for yeast to flocc.

Harvest yeast (save for future batches)

Hook up Co2 to the manifold at 5-10psi and turn on Co2. Open the top 4” TC port and dump hops in while you’re pumping Co2 into the headspace. Put the 4” TC back on loosely but let Co2 escape for 30 seconds then close it up. You can purge headspace a few more times using the manifold.

Leave at 60 for 48 hours. At that time take a sample and double check for hop creep and/or diacetyl and start dumpling settled hops. If negative for diacetyl start cooling to 39. I go 5* in the AM and 5* at night so as not to shock the yeast. You can continue to dump hops or just wait until you get to 39. Leave at 39 for a couple days then keg.

Explain your exact process for purging the keg and and transferring the beer. Just cause you don’t get a color change doesn’t mean you don’t get aroma damaging o2 pickup. In my experience Aroma is the first to go.

 

[Rothbard69]

The reason you’re not getting the aroma is you’re adding dry hops too early into fermentation, plain and simple. You can split the hops if you want but I don’t think it’s necessary. I don’t think TG is adding dry hops during fermentation at all. You can tell it’s Citra with KS and PS. When you get pure expression of the hop and not muddled fruit that means the dry hops were added after fermentation.

Don’t ferment under pressure. Some yeasts can handle it, others can’t. If you think you want to try it I wouldn’t go over 7psi which means you’d need a spunding valve. It’s not necessary and you run the risk of a poor fermentation.

I’d add more than 6oz, especially if you have a conical fermenter and can dump hops. Try closer to 9oz.

If you have a spike conical and you want explosive aroma from your dry hops do this:

Wait until fermentation is complete and beer is negative for VDKs (do a forced diacetyl rest, it’s easy).

if you have the pressure transfer manifold add it when you see active fermtation is down but still getting some Co2 release. You don’t want pressure to build up very much in my opinion. Keep it below 5ps

Cool to 60*

Wait for 24-36 hours for yeast to flocc.

Harvest yeast (save for future batches)

Hook up Co2 to the manifold at 5-10psi and turn on Co2. Open the top 4” TC port and dump hops in while you’re pumping Co2 into the headspace. Put the 4” TC back on loosely but let Co2 escape for 30 seconds then close it up. You can purge headspace a few more times using the manifold.

Leave at 60 for 48 hours. At that time take a sample and double check for hop creep and/or diacetyl and start dumpling settled hops. If negative for diacetyl start cooling to 39. I go 5* in the AM and 5* at night so as not to shock the yeast. You can continue to dump hops or just wait until you get to 39. Leave at 39 for a couple days then keg.

Explain your exact process for purging the keg and and transferring the beer. Just cause you don’t get a color change doesn’t mean you don’t get aroma damaging o2 pickup. In my experience Aroma is the first to go.

Holy crap! What a response. Thanks so much. I'll try it this week on a new batch I'm making.

As far as the transfer I fill a keg as full as i can with starsan. I push that out with CO2 leaving me with a CO2 filled keg. I then hook sight glass to transfer port of Spike conical and connect that to a beer line which is then connected to the keg through the liquid side. I have a spunding valve on the gas side of the keg. I open the valve and purge the beer line of any air before i hook it up to the keg. CO2 hooked up to the manifold pushes beer into keg. The manifold i put on during active fermentation when i dropped the 6 oz dry hop in, so nothing gets opened to air after that (i also purge several times after I drop hop through the manifold)

 

[couchsending]

Holy crap! What a response. Thanks so much. I'll try it this week on a new batch I'm making.

As far as the transfer I fill a keg as full as i can with starsan. I push that out with CO2 leaving me with a CO2 filled keg. I then hook sight glass to transfer port of Spike conical and connect that to a beer line which is then connected to the keg through the liquid side. I have a spunding valve on the gas side of the keg. I open the valve and purge the beer line of any air before i hook it up to the keg. CO2 hooked up to the manifold pushes beer into keg. The manifold i put on during active fermentation when i dropped the 6 oz dry hop in, so nothing gets opened to air after that (i also purge several times after I drop hop through the manifold)

No prob. Here’s a few more tips on the purge and transfer.

I will fill keg so overflowing with Star San, put the lid on. Push out a pint then purge 13 times with 30 psi. Push the rest of the Star San out using 5psi. Fill keg with Co2 and let it sit for 10-15 minutes to make sure all the bubbles and liquid has settled and will be pushed out when attach the transfer line.

Personally I think sight glasses are a bit of a waste on the Homebrew scale but to each their own. Just another way to trap more o2.

Best way I’ve found to purge the transfer line is keep the Co2 hooked up to the keg at like 5psi, attach the liquid line to the liquid out of the keg and push that 5psi through the transfer line while holding it tightly to the TC port on the conical for 60 seconds. Once 60 seconds is done tighten the Tri clamp. I used to just fill the keg with 20psi, attach the transfer line then use that 20psi to purge the transfer line while hooking it up to the FV. I think I get a better purge using lower psi over a longer period of time. Aroma seems to be even better using this purging method. It was great before but seems even more robust and longer lasting now.

I put the keg on a scale so I know when I’m getting close to the keg being full and can pull the transfer line when appropriate.

 

[Rothbard69]

No prob. Here’s a few more tips on the purge and transfer.

I will fill keg so overflowing with Star San, put the lid on. Push out a pint then purge 13 times with 30 psi. Push the rest of the Star San out using 5psi. Fill keg with Co2 and let it sit for 10-15 minutes to make sure all the bubbles and liquid has settled and will be pushed out when attach the transfer line.

Personally I think sight glasses are a bit of a waste on the Homebrew scale but to each their own. Just another way to trap more o2.

Best way I’ve found to purge the transfer line is keep the Co2 hooked up to the keg at like 5psi, attach the liquid line to the liquid out of the keg and push that 5psi through the transfer line while holding it tightly to the TC port on the conical for 60 seconds. Once 60 seconds is done tighten the Tri clamp. I used to just fill the keg with 20psi, attach the transfer line then use that 20psi to purge the transfer line while hooking it up to the FV. I think I get a better purge using lower psi over a longer period of time. Aroma seems to be even better using this purging method. It was great before but seems even more robust and longer lasting now.

I put the keg on a scale so I know when I’m getting close to the keg being full and can pull the transfer line when appropriate.

excellent advice makes alot of sense. I will make this part of my routine for sure.

Since I have your ear I am brewing another NEIPA soon and have 2 questions for you

1. as far as the hops go I was planning 2 dry hop 1st at day three 1 oz each of Amarillo, Citra, and Idaho #7. 2nd dry hop day 7 of the same. So 6 oz split into 2 3 oz DH additions. Reading your first recs i would assume I would increase the whole amount to 90 oz and maybe do 3 oz of each? And just do one dry hop post fermentation 3 oz each?

2. I was going to try Voss kveik yeast this time so given that it ferments fast if i decide to use Voss should I do DH addition post fermentation (day 3) and then keep it on the hops for like 4 or 5 day?

sorry for the blitz of questions but your pearls of wisdom are intoxicating!

 

[wepeeler]

Just kegged the neipa. 24 hours on a 6 oz Citra DH at 58F. Zero harsh flavor. No hop burn. Can't wait to taste it carbed up.

 

[couchsending]

excellent advice makes alot of sense. I will make this part of my routine for sure.

Since I have your ear I am brewing another NEIPA soon and have 2 questions for you

1. as far as the hops go I was planning 2 dry hop 1st at day three 1 oz each of Amarillo, Citra, and Idaho #7. 2nd dry hop day 7 of the same. So 6 oz split into 2 3 oz DH additions. Reading your first recs i would assume I would increase the whole amount to 90 oz and maybe do 3 oz of each? And just do one dry hop post fermentation 3 oz each?

2. I was going to try Voss kveik yeast this time so given that it ferments fast if i decide to use Voss should I do DH addition post fermentation (day 3) and then keep it on the hops for like 4 or 5 day?

sorry for the blitz of questions but your pearls of wisdom are intoxicating!

I’m not a fan of dry hopping during fermentation, to me it’s a waste of hops. So much of the aromatic compounds are blown off among other issues. I haven’t done it in years. It’s not critical for the “style” and most of the best commercial examples aren’t made using that technique. Add them all at once after fermentation is done and you’ve removed yeast or split them up adding 1 day apart but again always after fermentation and generally at 60 or below.

I also don’t like Kviek yeasts but plenty do. If you are fermenting it warm I would highly suggest not dry hopping it during fermentation. There are many reports of really weird flavors/aromas when dry hopping Kviek fermentation’s at those elevated temps. Wait until fermentation is done, drop temps to around 60, remove yeast, add dry hops.

 

[MrPowers]

I don't know if this has been mentioned on here yet or not, but James from Verdant in the UK said they don't add any dry hops during active fermentation either. In this video, starting at approx. the 1:50 mark:

Just one more vote for the post fermentation dry hop!

 

[skleice]

I'm sure this has been covered, but there's a lot to soft through...

What is your preferred oz/gallon dry hop rate?

 

[Dgallo]

I'm sure this has been covered, but there's a lot to soft through...

What is your preferred oz/gallon dry hop rate?

I base mine off the the GU of the beer. I dryhop at a rate of .10-.12 oz per gravity unit. So it’s roughly 8 for a single, 10 for a double, and 12 for a triple

 

[HopsAreGood]

I'm sure this has been covered, but there's a lot to soft through...

What is your preferred oz/gallon dry hop rate?

I personally like 10 oz in the dry hop. I’ve made excellent beers with 6, 8, and 12, and have gone as high as 16...but I’ve pretty much settled in on 10. I still play around but 10 is definitely my sweet spot. I’ll add that most beers I make are around 7.5% abv give or take a few points.

 

[MrPowers]

I’m on the lower end of the spectrum: I’m using about .8-.9oz/gal in the boil, and about 1.2oz/gallon in the dry hop in 1.060+ beers. That is before accounting for losses during the process during the process. I back it off slightly for lower gravities. I haven’t gone higher, mostly because I can’t imagine dealing with the losses at a rate higher than that.

 

[couchsending]

I'm sure this has been covered, but there's a lot to soft through...

What is your preferred oz/gallon dry hop rate?

I think it depends on the beer and the hop variety. Been making a lot of 5% beers lately that have as much as 7.5oz of dry hops in 5 finished gallons. These beers have final gravities of closer to 1.014 however. If that same 5% beer FG was 1.008 or 1.010 and even a different grain bill it couldn’t support that hopping load.

Certain hop varieties also require lesser amounts just due to their potency and certain hops require more due to their potency.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’m on the lower end of the spectrum: I’m using about .8-.9oz/gal in the boil, and about 1.2oz/gallon in the dry hop in 1.060+ beers. That is before accounting for losses during the process during the process. I back it off slightly for lower gravities. I haven’t gone higher, mostly because I can’t imagine dealing with the losses at a rate higher than that.

I’ve kind of settled in on the following:
2 oz in the last 20 minutes of the boil
4 oz in a 170 WP
10 oz dry hop
I’ve played around a lot with hopping schedules, and will continue to do so, but this schedule consistently produces beers that I’m happy with.

 

[MrPowers]

I think it depends on the beer and the hop variety. Been making a lot of 5% beers lately that have as much as 7.5oz of dry hops in 5 finished gallons. These beers have final gravities of closer to 1.014 however. If that same 5% beer FG was 1.008 or 1.010 and even a different grain bill it couldn’t support that hopping load.

Certain hop varieties also require lesser amounts just due to their potency and certain hops require more due to their potency.

I would agree with this. Grist composition plays a huge role. A big, full, oat-forward NEIPA like the other half thread is focused on is going to need more in the hopping department than an alchemist style that is a single malt with Pearl. Same is true when comparing hops—the best example is comparing galaxy to basically anything else.

 

[MrPowers]

I’ve kind of settled in on the following:
2 oz in the last 20 minutes of the boil
4 oz in a 170 WP
10 oz dry hop
I’ve played around a lot with hopping schedules, and will continue to do so, but this schedule consistently produces beers that I’m happy with.

I usually use Yakima CO2 extract @ 30-40 in the boil, that lends plenty of flavor/bitterness/resin’y hop character that stays full mid palate. All the rest of my hops are WP/DH. Usually 10oz WP to 14oz dry hop (10 gal finished batch). Lower gravity beers with get an even split (8oz) WP/DH.

 

[jturman35]

Hey biches it’s been awhile! Not the best picture but my last NEIPA before taking a break.

BroFlo version #3
Simcoe Amarillo whirlpool
Moteuka /Sabro dry hops

 

[couchsending]

Think I’m gonna do “Citra 6 Ways” on Sunday.

Citra T-90 in the kettle @ 30/10
Citra Lupomax and Cryo in WP
Citra Leaf in Hopback
American Noble Citra during fermentation
Cutra T-90/Cryo/Lupomax DH
Citra Terpenes somewhere along the way (still trying to figure out dosing method)

Should be interesting.

Unfortuantely the Lupomax I got from YVH kinda smells like sh*t which sucks. Lots of onion garlic. Rest of the Citra I have is pretty bangin!

 

[echoALEia]

Think I’m gonna do “Citra 6 Ways” on Sunday.

Citra T-90 in the kettle @ 30/10
Citra Lupomax and Cryo in WP
Citra Leaf in Hopback
American Noble Citra during fermentation
Cutra T-90/Cryo/Lupomax DH
Citra Terpenes somewhere along the way (still trying to figure out dosing method)

Should be interesting.

Unfortuantely the Lupomax I got from YVH kinda smells like sh*t which sucks. Lots of onion garlic. Rest of the Citra I have is pretty bangin!

Like raw onions or “Funyuns”? I’ve had NEIPAs from good smaller breweries that tasted like Funyuns and I personally loved them. They might translate differently into a finished product, especially with good malts. I say just go with it.

 

[couchsending]

Like raw onions or “Funyuns”? I’ve had NEIPAs from good smaller breweries that tasted like Funyuns and I personally loved them. They might translate differently into a finished product, especially with good malts. I say just go with it.

Onions are onions in my book. The real great Citra I’ve been fortunate enough to brew with has zero onion/garlic character.

 

[TBryerton]

Think I’m gonna do “Citra 6 Ways” on Sunday.

Citra T-90 in the kettle @ 30/10
Citra Lupomax and Cryo in WP
Citra Leaf in Hopback
American Noble Citra during fermentation
Cutra T-90/Cryo/Lupomax DH
Citra Terpenes somewhere along the way (still trying to figure out dosing method)

Should be interesting.

Unfortuantely the Lupomax I got from YVH kinda smells like sh*t which sucks. Lots of onion garlic. Rest of the Citra I have is pretty bangin!

Sounds amazing. You mentioned canning... If you’re interested in trading I typically get some good east coast beers.

 

[couchsending]

Sounds amazing. You mentioned canning... If you’re interested in trading I typically get some good east coast beers.

yeah I can most stuff that I’m happy with and give it to friends.

Appreciate the offer!

Hopefully it turns out! Might not

 

[Dgallo]

Most recent double ipa. Idaho 7 and Citra hotside with Strata and Citra LUPOMAX dryhop

 

[MrPowers]

Most recent double ipa. Idaho 7 and Citra hotside with Strata and Citra LUPOMAX dryhop View attachment 698060

Beautiful beer!

Do I also spy a turbo Subie in the background?

 

[Dgallo]

Beautiful beer!

Do I also spy a turbo Subie in the background?

Thanks brother. It’s 2.5 GT legacy...when the family Sedan has Gitty up Lol

 

[dogjam]

Most recent hazy with Mosaic, Ella, and Azacca. Used pilsner (with white wheat, flaked wheat, oats, and carapils) rather than my usual 2-row to try and get the color more towards yellow rather than orange. No biotransformation hops this time--just big whirlpool and dry hop after fermentation was done. Was worried I wouldn't get as much haze, but so far it's not a problem! I think the hop aroma and flavor are bigger than my usual hazies, maybe because avoiding a biotransformation hop means that the flocculating yeast aren't dragging all those hop compounds out of solution?

 

[cuda6pak]

Another data point for a NEIPA with no oats/wheat.

11.5gal batch

98% Canada 6-row
2% Flaked Barley

153F Mash

10min 9IBU CTZ
175 WP ~15IBU Idaho7

Ferment with Oslo @ 95F

SG - 1.062
FG - 1.016 (expected 1.012 as that's where Oslo always ends for me. May lower mash temp slightly next time)

Soft crash to 58, harvest yeast
DH for 48 hours with 5oz Citra Lupomax, 5oz Mosaic Lupomax, 3oz Sabro Lupomax
Crash to 43F (as far as my setup will go)
Transfer to Starsan CO2 purged kegs

In the keg so far ~12 days and has had zero hop burn from the start. Intense citrus, pineapple with some background of tangerine and almost a toasted marshmallow I think due to the Sabro. I expect the haze to stick around as anything I make with Oslo that I DH with stays hazy until the end.

First time using Lupomax and pretty happy with it. One thing I did notice is that it stuck to the sides of the conical like glue when compared to regular pellets and cryo.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Most recent double ipa. Idaho 7 and Citra hotside with Strata and Citra LUPOMAX dryhop View attachment 698060

Looks good. I just brewed something similar. RAW with Columbus in the mash (1/3oz) and highest WP temp (1oz at 77C). Citra (2oz) and Idaho 7 (1oz) at lower WP temps (2oz at 71C and 1oz at 42C). And 1 oz Citra at day 2 of fermentation and 5oz Strata post fermentation and soft crash.

My last NEIPA was trillium streets inspired with Columbus and Strata which was nice!

Do you like yours?

Could it be that a small amount of hops in the beginning of the fermentation could prevent hop creep? My idea is that we add the enzymes from the hops while the fermentation is active and any fermentabels generated by the hop-enzymes will be eaten by the yeast before we add the large dry hop dose.

 

[isomerization]

Looks good. I just brewed something similar. RAW with Columbus in the mash (1/3oz) and highest WP temp (1oz at 77C). Citra (2oz) and Idaho 7 (1oz) at lower WP temps (2oz at 71C and 1oz at 42C). And 1 oz Citra at day 2 of fermentation and 5oz Strata post fermentation and soft crash.

My last NEIPA was trillium streets inspired with Columbus and Strata which was nice!

Do you like yours?

Could it be that a small amount of hops in the beginning of the fermentation could prevent hop creep? My idea is that we add the enzymes from the hops while the fermentation is active and any fermentabels generated by the hop-enzymes will be eaten by the yeast before we add the large dry hop dose.

My understanding of hop creep is that enzymatic activity occurs on longer chain dextrins that normally wouldn’t be fermented by the yeast. I don’t think timing of hop addition would affect this, although it may not be as obvious if it is occurring during active ferm versus after.

 

[WesBrew]

Most recent hazy with Mosaic, Ella, and Azacca.

I recently had an IPA with a bunch of late Azacca. I thought it had some west-coast funk aroma and wasn't sure I'd like it. It was delicious, fruity.

 

[hoppybrewer]

Most recent double ipa. Idaho 7 and Citra hotside with Strata and Citra LUPOMAX dryhop View attachment 698060

Looks great!!