New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[couchsending]

Doesn't pH drop during boil as a byproduct of the boil? If I'm starting at 5.2-5.4, I would expect it to be closer to 5. I don't measure, I just go by what Beersmith spits out.

I don’t think I’ve actually seen pH drop more than .1 over a 90 minute boil, maybe that’s just my setup.

Hops tend to increase pH (or negate pH drop) so when adding hops during the boil you won’t see as much natural decrease as you would without.

 

[couchsending]

DGallo, tell me what you think of the Bright. Doesn't seem to be inline with their other beers or NEIPA in general.

Its fermented with US05 which is why. Bright is meant to be a representation of the hop they use in each one. There’s no yeast esters or biotransmformed compounds present, just pure hop expression. When the hops are good I tend to like Bright more than their other beers, personally.

 

[Dgallo]

DGallo, tell me what you think of the Bright. Doesn't seem to be inline with their other beers or NEIPA in general.

I actually just had it this afternoon. It’s good but brewed to be dry and with a cleaner profile. I think it’s more inline with sip of sunshine. At least the Citra one. I enjoyed Galaxy and Nelson much more. Last August’s bright with Nelson was amazing

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

That makes sense about the yeast difference. I got Bright with Nelson about a month ago that I struggled to finish; never had that with a TH beer before. I like Nelson in Stillings St. from Trill but the latest Bright with Nelson from TH seemed like a whiff. Must have been the crop year.

 

[aaronm13]

Drop your boil pH closer to 5.0. You get all the extraction with less isomerization.

Do you add more lactic acid towards the end of your boil if you're not close to 5.0? I'm usually at a 5.2 mash but never check it after that. If you add more acid a what stage would you add it as you said a high whirlpool of hops would raise the ph slightly.

 

[Tyler B]

Water profile question... I've searched the past several pages of this thread, read the OPs updated preference, BYOs recommendations, etc and realize that it is really just a matter of preference based on experimentation. So, I'm not really looking for THE water profile just wondering if the one I came up with is a decent starting point?

Ca100, Mg 0, Na 40, Cl 175, SO4 87.5, HCO3 0

Any glaring mistakes or problems? I've brewed a lot of beers but this is my first NEIPA and my first time building up my water from RO. Any thoughts or critiques appreciated.

 

[Dgallo]

Water profile question... I've searched the past several pages of this thread, read the OPs updated preference, BYOs recommendations, etc and realize that it is really just a matter of preference based on experimentation. So, I'm not really looking for THE water profile just wondering if the one I came up with is a decent starting point?

Ca100, Mg 0, Na 40, Cl 175, SO4 87.5, HCO3 0

Any glaring mistakes or problems? I've brewed a lot of beers but this is my first NEIPA and my first time building up my water from RO. Any thoughts or critiques appreciated.

That’s a pretty good place to start. Each brewer is going to have a profile they love and brew with. Personally, I’m lower on the calcium, higher in so4 and Na. You’ll end up playing with it over time and find what you prefer.

 

[Tyler B]

That’s a pretty good place to start. Each brewer is going to have a profile they love and brew with. Personally, I’m lower on the calcium, higher in so4 and Na. You’ll end up playing with it over time and find what you prefer.

Thanks, man... appreciate it!

 

[wepeeler]

Water profile question... I've searched the past several pages of this thread, read the OPs updated preference, BYOs recommendations, etc and realize that it is really just a matter of preference based on experimentation. So, I'm not really looking for THE water profile just wondering if the one I came up with is a decent starting point?

Ca100, Mg 0, Na 40, Cl 175, SO4 87.5, HCO3 0

Any glaring mistakes or problems? I've brewed a lot of beers but this is my first NEIPA and my first time building up my water from RO. Any thoughts or critiques appreciated.

Very similar to what I use, but I have lower Ca and Na and trace amounts of Mg and HCO3. But I prefer the higher Cl to SO4 ratio, the opposite of @Dgallo, so everyone definitely has a unique preference. Been trying different combos for about 4 years now and it's what I think I prefer, although my recipe has changed immensely in that time too, so there's that...

 

[Tyler B]

Very similar to what I use, but I have lower Ca and Na and trace amounts of Mg and HCO3. But I prefer the higher Cl to SO4 ratio, the opposite of @Dgallo, so everyone definitely has a unique preference. Been trying different combos for about 4 years now and it's what I think I prefer, although my recipe has changed immensely in that time too, so there's that...

Thanks for your insight, bro!

So do you guys think that calcium number(100ppm) is too high?

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks for your insight, bro!

So do you guys think that calcium number(100ppm) is too high?

Not necessarily or in your case. higher calcium levels can lead to some astringency in the finish and also cause the beer to clear a little, which I do not believe you will experience at 100.

I build my water from tap water, so for me to get the so4 and Cl numbers where I like them, my calcium stays in the 90s.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I got some Other Half recently, including their collab with Vitamin Sea called F.A.Q. which sold out the fastest. That one was pretty good, a little maltier than I prefer in a NEIPA because they used golden naked oats but I still liked it. The non-collab OH beers were really hit or miss though. One(Digital Beams) was great. One(DDH Go With The Flow) was good not great. And the other(DDH Space Diamonds) was pretty astringent. To the point I got very little hop flavor, just bite. Even the big boys have trouble managing their Galaxy sometimes...

 

[wepeeler]

Just finished a mash. Way too late to be brewing

All Citra. No 60 min. Small 30 min, small 15 min, small 5 min. HUGE 20 min WP at 180. Figuring to DH 2x. After primary maybe day 5 after soft crashing to 58. Then 24 hours before kegging.

 

[aaronm13]

anyone use the 2020 Galaxy they got from Yakima yet? just opened mine and it stinks of broccoli.

 

[Dgallo]

anyone use the 2020 Galaxy they got from Yakima yet? just opened mine and it stinks of broccoli.

That sucks man. I got 1.5 lbs all in 2 oz pack and only open one to mash some cold and hot teas and mine smelt glorious and had good flavors

 

[aaronm13]

That sucks man. I got 1.5 lbs all in 2 oz pack and only open one to mash some cold and hot teas and mine smelt glorious and had good flavors

So disappointed. Brewing that Verdant "Even Sharks Need Water" recipe and its Citra and Galaxy so don't really have much choice but to use it. Have a small amount of 2019 and the difference between the two is unbelievable. Glad I only got half a pound. Wonder whats causing that off smell?

 

[secretlevel]

That sucks man. I got 1.5 lbs all in 2 oz pack and only open one to mash some cold and hot teas and mine smelt glorious and had good flavors

Do tell about the tea method. Do you just steep hops for a few minutes in hot (or cold) water?

 

[Dgallo]

Do tell about the tea method. Do you just steep hops for a few minutes in hot (or cold) water?

That’s really it. I Just use a French press(I don’t really press it much at all just keep material down.

I do 16 oz water to a .5 oz of hops. I do one at the temp that come out of the hot water unit on the coffee make (160-190*f?!?!? never temped it to be honest) and then one at room temp. Just to get a small test of what they’re like.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Would Ca=60 be too low?

 

[HopsAreGood]

Just finished a mash. Way too late to be brewing

All Citra. No 60 min. Small 30 min, small 15 min, small 5 min. HUGE 20 min WP at 180. Figuring to DH 2x. After primary maybe day 5 after soft crashing to 58. Then 24 hours before kegging.

About to do something very similar except with mosaic. I have regular pellets, Lupomax, and cryo on hand. I’m going to blend them all in and see how it turns out.

I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts lately and have heard a few different professional brewers talk about blending different lots of a given hop in single hop beers. Sometimes out of necessity but also to add some depth and complexity.

Small 20, small 15, small 10, small 5, small FO, 4 oz 170, 10oz dry hop.

Pellets in the boil, pellets and Lupomax WP, then Lupomax and cryo dryhop.

 

[Dgallo]

About to do something very similar except with mosaic. I have regular pellets, Lupomax, and cryo on hand. I’m going to blend them all in and see how it turns out.

I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts lately and have heard a few different professional brewers talk about blending different lots of a given hop in single hop beers. Sometimes out of necessity but also to add some depth and complexity.

Small 20, small 15, small 10, small 5, small FO, 4 oz 170, 10oz dry hop.

Pellets in the boil, pellets and Lupomax WP, then Lupomax and cryo dryhop.

I saw @couchsending mention this a while back. If I recall he did a Citra beer with leaf, pellet from two lots, and cryo. I don’t know if he ever followed up on how it came out(could have just missed it), but I think it’s very interesting.

I’m def interested on how yours comes out.

 

[HopsAreGood]

The guy from New Anthem talked a little bit about it and so did the guy from Triple Crossing. Both highly regarded breweries who know what they’re doing when it comes to this style of beer.

 

[couchsending]

I’ve done it with Citra and Idaho 7.

Citra was:
-pellets in the kettle
-Cryo in WP
-leaf in hopback
-American Noble Citra during ferment
-Pellets from a couple different spots after fermentation

Idaho 7 was
- pellets in kettle
- hash in WP
- leaf in Hopback
- Pellets after fermentatoon

Idaho7 Cryo still isn’t packaged for homebrewers otherwise I would have used it.

I think it’s a great way to add depth to single hop beers.

 

[JohnConnor]

That BYO article is from 2011 right? There’s a bit more know about hops now than in 2011.

This has some better more up to date science based info on 4mmp and other thiols and flavor active compounds in hops.

http://scottjanish.com/survivables-unpacking-hot-side-hop-flavor/
if you were to make a beer with just Citra at 60 minutes I guarantee you there would be no “cattiness” in the beer. Dry hopping (or low whirlpool temps) is the best way to get it into the beer although then it doesn’t survive fermentation nearly as well as other aromatic compounds.

The “harshness” from boiling Citra is more likely due to the higher than normal polyphenol content. Similar results would come from boiling Galaxy.

I’m not saying you should add it at 60 minutes but don’t be afraid of 30 minute additions. There are definitely compounds in hops that benefit from boiling and will make it into even heavily dry hopped beers.

I’ve been messing with adding decent amounts of Simcoe and Cascade at 30 lately (no beginning of boil addition) and the difference in the final beer was pretty eye opening. You could definitely pick out aroma contributions of the beer with the 30 minute addition even with a rather large DH charge. I went into these experiments doubting that I would see a big difference and was pleasantly surprised.

To me beers that are only whirlpooled and dry hopped lack depth and character. You can create much more interesting aroma and flavor profiles by adding certain hops at certain times on the hotside.

You are like my spirit animal, I swear. I've been experimenting with simcoe at 60 and 30 this year. I'm not sure what took me so long. I'm not looking back either. It's really a beautiful thing. Citra, mosaic, simcoe. Don't be afraid to boil them!

 

[HopsAreGood]

You are like my spirit animal, I swear. I've been experimenting with simcoe at 60 and 30 this year. I'm not sure what took me so long. I'm not looking back either. It's really a beautiful thing. Citra, mosaic, simcoe. Don't be afraid to boil them!

What would you say you’re getting from boiling simcoe at 30? I’m Genuinely interested and willing to try it out.

 

[couchsending]

There are studies you can find where the 3MH thiol actually increases during the boil. The graphs I’ve seen show a dramatic increase up until 30 minutes but not much difference between 30 and 60.

if your yeast has the ability to biotransform it can convert 3MH into 3MHA which is supposedly very passion fruit forward.

I’ve seen conflicting data but some of the hops highest in 3MH are Cascade and Simcoe.

 

[HopsAreGood]

There are studies you can find where the 3MH thiol actually increases during the boil. The graphs I’ve seen show a dramatic increase up until 30 minutes but not much difference between 30 and 60.

if your yeast has the ability to biotransform it can convert 3MH into 3MHA which is supposedly very passion fruit forward.

I’ve seen conflicting data but some of the hops highest in 3MH are Cascade and Simcoe.

What yeasts would you say have the ability to biotransform? I’ve used pretty much all of the usual suspects.

 

[Tyler B]

Thanks to all of the contributions by everyone here, I brewed my first NEIPA today.... Interesting brew session to say the least.

As stated in a previous post, it was my first time building up my water from RO. I was oddly amused when tasting the mineral water I made. I hit my mash pH as predicted. I was also using a new grain mill for the first time so I got an unexpected 10% bump in my efficiency. Looks like I'll have a 7% beer . The boil was very uneventful since I only did FWH and whirlpool hops.

Now, after pitching yeast, I'm looking ahead to the biotransformation hops. Like, most things related to brewing there doesn't seem to be clear answer but I'm still curious about your opinions... When should I add my hops? I'm using S-04 yeast and Citra, Mosaic, and Galaxy hops. Only planning on the one biotransformation hop addition.

Thanks!

 

[wepeeler]

Thanks to all of the contributions by everyone here, I brewed my first NEIPA today.... Interesting brew session to say the least.

As stated in a previous post, it was my first time building up my water from RO. I was oddly amused when tasting the mineral water I made. I hit my mash pH as predicted. I was also using a new grain mill for the first time so I got an unexpected 10% bump in my efficiency. Looks like I'll have a 7% beer . The boil was very uneventful since I only did FWH and whirlpool hops.

Now, after pitching yeast, I'm looking ahead to the biotransformation hops. Like, most things related to brewing there doesn't seem to be clear answer but I'm still curious about your opinions... When should I add my hops? I'm using S-04 yeast and Citra, Mosaic, and Galaxy hops. Only planning on the one biotransformation hop addition.

Thanks!

The consensus around here has been to wait until primary ferm is over, soft crash to 58 or so and then DH. Just less than a year ago people, myself included, raved about day 1 or 2 DHing for biotransformation, but seems like more people are getting better haze and less harshness by dropping the yeast out first, then DHing.

Also, research has shown that DH extraction rates are typically faster than we initially thought. 24 hours seems to be long enough, although it may make transferring a bit more difficult if you don't have the ability to cold crash.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Or if you're like me and due to magnet failure accidentally drop in the dry hops when pitching the yeast, (which is why I named it Splash Down), it can and did still turn out quite good. I did have to run a audible and add some additional hops to the keg, but this still ended up as one of the best beers I've ever brewed. It was my first attempt at brewing a neipa. The smell was amazing, the taste was very good, and the opaque appearance didn't change from the first glass to the last, probably helped by the Voss Kveik yeast. I killed the keg yesterday but I'll definitely be brewing this again, likely experimenting with different hops.

 

[Tyler B]

The consensus around here has been to wait until primary ferm is over, soft crash to 58 or so and then DH. Just less than a year ago people, myself included, raved about day 1 or 2 DHing for biotransformation, but seems like more people are getting better haze and less harshness by dropping the yeast out first, then DHing.

Also, research has shown that DH extraction rates are typically faster than we initially thought. 24 hours seems to be long enough, although it may make transferring a bit more difficult if you don't have the ability to cold crash.

Good stuff! Appreciate the response. So that just sounds like a normal dry hop. Have people moved on from the biotransformation hops?

Edit: Never mind... I found some relevant discussions earlier in this thread (Feb and July) by searching for "biotransformation". Pretty much all of my questions answered. Thanks again!

 

[anteater8]

About to do something very similar except with mosaic. I have regular pellets, Lupomax, and cryo on hand. I’m going to blend them all in and see how it turns out.

I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts lately and have heard a few different professional brewers talk about blending different lots of a given hop in single hop beers. Sometimes out of necessity but also to add some depth and complexity.

Small 20, small 15, small 10, small 5, small FO, 4 oz 170, 10oz dry hop.

Pellets in the boil, pellets and Lupomax WP, then Lupomax and cryo dryhop.

I brewed an IPA (disclaimer: its a west coast) using this logic for the first time. Usually for either style I'll bitter at 60, one big whirlpool addition, and one big dry hop addition. This time I split it into way more additions and I'm curious to see if it actually adds more depth or maybe isn't worth the effort.

1 oz Warrior 60 min (42 IBU)
1 oz Simcoe 10 min (13 IBU)
1 oz Simcoe 0 min
1 oz Amarillo 0 min
1 oz Centennial 0 min
1 oz Simcoe Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Centennial Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
1 oz Simcoe Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Centennial Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
2 oz Amarillo Dry Hop #1
2 oz Centennial Dry Hop #2

 

[Noob_Brewer]

I brewed an IPA (disclaimer: its a west coast) using this logic for the first time. Usually for either style I'll bitter at 60, one big whirlpool addition, and one big dry hop addition. This time I split it into way more additions and I'm curious to see if it actually adds more depth or maybe isn't worth the effort.

1 oz Warrior 60 min (42 IBU)
1 oz Simcoe 10 min (13 IBU)
1 oz Simcoe 0 min
1 oz Amarillo 0 min
1 oz Centennial 0 min
1 oz Simcoe Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Centennial Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
1 oz Simcoe Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Centennial Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
2 oz Amarillo Dry Hop #1
2 oz Centennial Dry Hop #2

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Just finished brewing the following:

11 pounds 2-row
3 pounds white wheat

Mashed at 154, PH of 5.25.

Water was adjusted to:

Ca: 78.9
Mg: 5
Na: 58.7
Cl: 201.5
So4: 4

20: 9 grams mosaic Lupomax
15: 9 grams mosaic LupoMax
10: 9 grams mosaic Lupomax
5: 9 grams mosaic Lupomax

9 grams is roughly equivalent to 14 grams of standard pellets.

170 WP for 15 minutes: 74 grams mosaic Lupomax...equal to 4 oz. standard pellets.

OG: 1.070

Pitched white labs opshaug kveik at 85 and will let ferment between 85-90. This is a very clean non estery yeast if you are unfamiliar. Nothing like the other well known kveiks that can overpower hops.

Going to dryhop after fermentation is complete at 60 degrees, after crashing the yeast out, with 4oz mosaic Lupomax and 3oz mosaic cryo. (Equivalent of 12 oz dry hop)

I’m pretty sure it will come out good, but I plan on brewing this again in the future and adding in “Blue Dream” terpenes.

https://www.buyterpenesonline.com/terpenes-for-sale/blue-dream-nano/
Blue dream is known for its “sweet blueberry pie, blueberries and sugar, and slight blueberry sugar cookies flavor and aroma.”

 

[nebulabrewing]

Not necessarily or in your case. higher calcium levels can lead to some astringency in the finish and also cause the beer to clear a little, which I do not believe you will experience at 100.

I build my water from tap water, so for me to get the so4 and Cl numbers where I like them, my calcium stays in the 90s.

This ^. Ca above 120 will affect haze and may cause yeast to flocculate early.

 

[Tyler B]

It's fermenting now. Wort looked darker than expected so hopefully the finished color isn't off putting. I'll report back on taste with hops and water profile I used.

 

[troglodytes]

I'm in need of the group opinion for my NEIPA schedule. Like a dunce I delayed my brew day several days because of life, not remembering that I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow afternoon and won't be back until Sun afternoon. Its slowly bubbling and/or off gassing at 70F after I brewed it last Wed, so thats only five days in the fermenter. I have hit my desired FG after a hydrometer test last night. The problem is, I want to cool crash down to 55F to drop the yeast before dry hopping.

Do I attempt to find away cool crash so I can dry prior to leaving tomorrow?
Do I let the yeast settle in the cool basement until Sunday and then dry hop when I return (this would make 11 days in the fermenter)

Other notes:

My ferm chamber condenser went, so I can't use that to cool.

I lost the o rings on my racking arm, so to still transfer using the ball valve on the bottom of my spiedel I have it propped way up at an angle to make the trub settle away from the ball valve. Having to keep it in this position limits my options for quick chilling.

 

[anteater8]

Anyone have good luck with a kitchen sink NEIPA? I always pick 1 to 3 hops, but I thought it would be fun to try a whole bunch for once (I see a lot of really good Modern Times beers with 5-6 hops). Current plan is equal parts Citra, Mosaic, Amarillo, CTZ, Simcoe, and Idaho 7.

 

[anteater8]

I'm in need of the group opinion for my NEIPA schedule. Like a dunce I delayed my brew day several days because of life, not remembering that I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow afternoon and won't be back until Sun afternoon. Its slowly bubbling and/or off gassing at 70F after I brewed it last Wed, so thats only five days in the fermenter. I have hit my desired FG after a hydrometer test last night. The problem is, I want to cool crash down to 55F to drop the yeast before dry hopping.

Do I attempt to find away cool crash so I can dry prior to leaving tomorrow?
Do I let the yeast settle in the cool basement until Sunday and then dry hop when I return (this would make 11 days in the fermenter)

Other notes:

My ferm chamber condenser went, so I can't use that to cool.

I lost the o rings on my racking arm, so to still transfer using the ball valve on the bottom of my spiedel I have it propped way up at an angle to make the trub settle away from the ball valve. Having to keep it in this position limits my options for quick chilling.

I don't think dry hopping on day 11 is too late, I would probably do that rather than rush it. Crashing on day 5 seems too soon. I find myself in this situation sometimes for similar reasons, and usually I'll just dry hop without a soft crash. Not ideal, but the beer always turns out well.

 

[JoeMamasIPA]

I don't think dry hopping on day 11 is too late, I would probably do that rather than rush it. Crashing on day 5 seems too soon. I find myself in this situation sometimes for similar reasons, and usually I'll just dry hop without a soft crash. Not ideal, but the beer always turns out well.

I second that motion, just DH it late tonight and let the hop creep rip until you get back then crash it and package it.