New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[HopsAreGood]

I also used hornindal a lot last year along with Voss and Stranda (hothead) I tried significantly under pitching a couple times and also pitching in the whole pack. I will say that under pitching will definitely give you more of the esters especially if you ferment it on the hot side. There were a couple times that I used Hornindal and got some really aggressive sulfur/rotten egg kind of smells. It disappeared a few times in the final beer but there was also a couple times where it translated into the final beer and I really didn’t care for it. I’m not sure what led to that but I’ve seen some other people say they’ve gotten the same thing.

I recently used the white labs Opshaug strain which is supposed to be a very clean fermenting kveik and I absolutely loved the result of the beer. If fermented fast and hot and has very little ester contribution into the final beer. I also have a beer fermenting now with the omega Lutra Kveik which is also marketed as shockingly clean. I’m currently crashing it before dry hopping but I have high hopes for it as well. The more I brew these hoppy styles the more I feel like I want less ester contribution from my yeast. I just want something that will ferment quickly and cleanly and then allow the malt and the hops to shine.

I should add that for both of the opshaug and Lutra I pitched the whole pack and fermented it at about 85 to 86 for the whole time. They were both done in three days. OG of 1.070 and 1.072.

 

[Dgallo]

I also used hornindal a lot last year along with Voss and Stranda (hothead) I tried significantly under pitching a couple times and also pitching in the whole pack. I will There were a couple times that I used Hornindal and got some really aggressive sulfur/rotten egg kind of smells. It disappeared a few times in the final beer but there was also a couple times where it translated into the final beer and I really didn’t care for it. I’m not sure what led to that but I’ve seen some other people say they’ve gotten the same thing.

Those off flavors are associated with stress, especially sulfurous notes. Hornindal requires more nutrients than most yeast. So if your pitch count is high and/or your gravity is on the lower end, it will cause some stress. You should add some yeast nutrient in the beers you pitch the whole pack or if under pitching, beers below 1.065

 

[HopsAreGood]

Those off flavors are associated with stress, especially sulfurous notes. Hornindal requires more nutrients than most yeast. So if your pitch count is high and/or your gravity is on the lower end, it will cause some stress. You should add some yeast nutrient in the beers you pitch the whole pack or if under pitching, beers below 1.065

Agreed. I’ve been aware of the nutrient requirements of Kveik for a while. Even last year I was giving them twice the recommended amount of the wyeast nutrient. Still got the disgusting rotten eggs a few times. I pushed them pretty hot a few times like over 100 so maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[secretlevel]

I'm experimenting with Cashmere and mash temps. Mashed around 158F to get 1.062 OG and 1.021 FG with London Ale 3. Turned in at 5.5% to be a nice summer sipper. High FG adds a good deal of body and complements the esters a bit.

Whirlpool: 1oz Citra, 1.5oz Cashmere

Dry hops:
6.5oz Cashmere
2.5oz Citra
1.5oz Simcoe

Tasting notes:
Banger of a pale ale, but not quite an all out NEIPA that it should be with 2oz/gal of dry hops. Cashmere is nice, but just a bit too mellow for this style. The 1.5oz Simcoe was added to keg 2 weeks in, after I wasn't quite happy with the beer. Overnight, this beer just turned into an absolute cantaloupe bomb. Loving all the overripe peach, passionfruit and cantaloupe flavors.

2018 Simcoe from YVH was a banger... I'll miss it and hope that this year's Simcoe can live up to the superb fruity character that crop had.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I'm experimenting with Cashmere and mash temps. Mashed around 158F to get 1.062 OG and 1.021 FG with London Ale 3. Turned in at 5.5% to be a nice summer sipper. High FG adds a good deal of body and complements the esters a bit.

Whirlpool: 1oz Citra, 1.5oz Cashmere

Dry hops:
6.5oz Cashmere
2.5oz Citra
1.5oz Simcoe

Tasting notes:
Banger of a pale ale, but not quite an all out NEIPA that it should be with 2oz/gal of dry hops. Cashmere is nice, but just a bit too mellow for this style. The 1.5oz Simcoe was added to keg 2 weeks in, after I wasn't quite happy with the beer. Overnight, this beer just turned into an absolute cantaloupe bomb. Loving all the overripe peach, passionfruit and cantaloupe flavors.

2018 Simcoe from YVH was a banger... I'll miss it and hope that this year's Simcoe can live up to the superb fruity character that crop had.

View attachment 693070

Looks great. Interested in hearing what if any precautions you took to limit O2 when keg hopping mid-stream. My first attempt at a neipa, currently about 2/3 of a keg remaining is good but lacks hop-punch. I've been kicking around the idea of adding more hops.

 

[hopfenstopfen]

I'm experimenting with Cashmere and mash temps. Mashed around 158F to get 1.062 OG and 1.021 FG with London Ale 3. Turned in at 5.5% to be a nice summer sipper. High FG adds a good deal of body and complements the esters a bit.

Whirlpool: 1oz Citra, 1.5oz Cashmere

Dry hops:
6.5oz Cashmere
2.5oz Citra
1.5oz Simcoe

Tasting notes:
Banger of a pale ale, but not quite an all out NEIPA that it should be with 2oz/gal of dry hops. Cashmere is nice, but just a bit too mellow for this style. The 1.5oz Simcoe was added to keg 2 weeks in, after I wasn't quite happy with the beer. Overnight, this beer just turned into an absolute cantaloupe bomb. Loving all the overripe peach, passionfruit and cantaloupe flavors.

2018 Simcoe from YVH was a banger... I'll miss it and hope that this year's Simcoe can live up to the superb fruity character that crop had.

View attachment 693070

Elaborate on the tasting notes on the cashmere-dominant mix? Read they are subtle. Bought 1/2 lb was thinking of using them much like you did, but with mosaic in place of citra. Unsure of 3rd hop, might go huell melon.

 

[secretlevel]

Looks great. Interested in hearing what if any precautions you took to limit O2 when keg hopping mid-stream. My first attempt at a neipa, currently about 2/3 of a keg remaining is good but lacks hop-punch. I've been kicking around the idea of adding more hops.

Nothing fancy, honestly. I used a sanitized hop sack, suspended it with flavorless floss, then purged the keg 3 times. I used to do this more in past and never had too many issues.

Elaborate on the tasting notes on the cashmere-dominant mix? Read they are subtle. Bought 1/2 lb was thinking of using them much like you did, but with mosaic in place of citra. Unsure of 3rd hop, might go huell melon.

Cashmere was dominant by weight, but not in flavor. It was a mellow Citra beer with some notes of cantaloupe/peach. Cashmere is pretty low on oil content and while in some cases low oil hops can stand out, this one doesn't stand out too much. I think it would be nice in a fruity pilsner or a cream ale. I would probably do 60/40 Citra/Cashmere if I tried this again.

Full disclosure - this is YVH 2019 Cashmere. You may have a different crop that could be much more pungent.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Tons of options but sort of depends on the hops themselves....Which ones you think smell the best.. Im sure the LUPOMAX stuff they’ve released so far is all pretty good quality cause they want to get people fired up on the product.

Idaho 7 can be interesting and it can be really earthy/black tea. I did a 60/40 Strata/I7 beer that was really cool. Tasted and smelled like no beer I’d ever had. It was almost like it was brewed with hops from AUS/NZ. Is the Nelson you have really good? Or is it diesely? How’s the Strata? Most everything I’ve bought from YVH has been a bit onion/garlic.

I ended up going with 2 ounces of Nelson and 2 ounces of strata for the first DryHop, then 24 hours later I did another 3 ounces of Nelson and 2 ounces of Citra LupoMax. It’s sitting at 61° right now and I’ll probably give it another 24 hours or so before crashing it out. We’ll see how it turns out.

So in summation:
1oz Nelson, 1oz Strata at 10
2oz Nelson, 2 oz Strata at 170 WP
2oz Nelson, 2oz Strata DH1
3oz Nelson, 2oz Citra Lupomax Dh2

14 pounds 2-row
.5 pounds c-10
Omega Lutra yeast at 85

I also adjusted my water for 230 ppm chloride and 4 ppm sulfate. I’ve never gone this extreme on the ratio but after verdant posted that they do this sometimes I figured I’d try it out. Keeps me from getting bored.

I’ll post back once it’s carbed and ready.

 

[BongoYodeler]

The 1.5oz Simcoe was added to keg 2 weeks in, after I wasn't quite happy with the beer. Overnight, this beer just turned into an absolute cantaloupe bomb. Loving all the overripe peach, passionfruit and cantaloupe flavors.

View attachment 693070

Looks great. Interested in hearing what if any precautions you took to limit O2 when keg hopping mid-stream. My first attempt at a neipa, currently about 2/3 of a keg remaining is good but lacks hop-punch. I've been kicking around the idea of adding more hops.

Nothing fancy, honestly. I used a sanitized hop sack, suspended it with flavorless floss, then purged the keg 3 times. I used to do this more in past and never had too many issues.

I decided to go ahead and add some hops to the keg. I added 1oz of Galaxy and 1oz of Azacca to my ss hop tube. Purged a half dozed times. I'll probably wait a day or two before trying it, and then drink it as quickly as I can in an attempt to stay ahead of any due to oxygen.

 

[couchsending]

Double Brew Today

Brew 1:

Pale Ale testing some of the hop that are supposedly high in “Survivables”. YCh released this study earlier this spring and Scott Janish has written about it since. Beer is also based on a few other Thiol studies.

5% 1.013 FG Pale Ale

2oz Cascade at 30
- 3MH has been shown to increase in the boil. Certain yeast can transform 3MH into 3MHA (passion fruit/guava)

1oz MT Hood at 5
- one of the most random hops in the Survivable chart

WP @ 162 (cooled a little too low)
- 1.5oz Milleniumm
- 2oz Mosaic
- Millenium was again one of those odd hops that was really highly on the Survivable chart.

Most likely DH with Citra + (something)

Brew 2: 6.5% IPA with fresh 2020 Australian hops. Simcoe @ 30, Galaxy with 25% HPA-016 in WP. DH probably mostly HPa-016 but maybe a 50/50 split between the two. Just opened the bag of Galaxy and it’s insane!

Trying to see if a really soft water profile helps the reduce the harshness from these hops.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Elaborate on the tasting notes on the cashmere-dominant mix? Read they are subtle. Bought 1/2 lb was thinking of using them much like you did, but with mosaic in place of citra. Unsure of 3rd hop, might go huell melon.

For me cashmere gives off citrus flavors with a subtle lemon/lime thing. It's not a powerful hop so can be overshadowed but I like it

 

[BeerFst]

Nothing fancy, honestly. I used a sanitized hop sack, suspended it with flavorless floss, then purged the keg 3 times. I used to do this more in past and never had too many issues.



Cashmere was dominant by weight, but not in flavor. It was a mellow Citra beer with some notes of cantaloupe/peach. Cashmere is pretty low on oil content and while in some cases low oil hops can stand out, this one doesn't stand out too much. I think it would be nice in a fruity pilsner or a cream ale. I would probably do 60/40 Citra/Cashmere if I tried this again.

Full disclosure - this is YVH 2019 Cashmere. You may have a different crop that could be much more pungent.

I’ve got a “kolsch” with cashmere now. Ended up in a similar boat and added two more ounces of dry hops after it was done. Really really subtle. Even with the extra dry hop I think I’d stick to late boil, like 10 minutes as we’ve been discussing lately. The peach ring ish character is most apparent in the taste of this beer. It was bursted from 20 to 0

 

[Dgallo]

If anyone finds this in their beverage center from civil society, be sure to pick it up. Great expression on strata hops and great example of their profile.

 

[tld6008]

If anyone finds this in their beverage center from civil society, be sure to pick it up. Great expression on strata hops and great example of their profile. View attachment 693172

Where did you find that?

 

[Dgallo]

Where did you find that?

ALBANY, NY

 

[SteveLupoMax]

I’ve done quite a bit of different ratios with them and all were good. I tend to go between 2 or 3 to 1 nelson to Citra, since I want nelson in the lead by just a tad (I base it off total oil ml/100gr). You really can’t go wrong though

How do use this to decide the ratio you use?

 

[Dgallo]

How do use this to decide the ratio you use?

So I look at total oil content per 100 grams of hops (all varieties have this information in ranges and I’ll take the average.) Citra average total oil content is usually around 2.0-2.5 ml per 100 grams and Nelson is usually 1.1-1.5 ml per 100 gr. Since most of the flavor and aroma comes form these oil (yes there are thiols and other compound that contribute, but different oils are what’s most prevalent). The oil amounts tell me that Citra has on average 1.5-2.5 times the amount of oil that Nelson has, meaning it has potential to dominate the flavor. So if I want the Nelson and Citra to both contribute equal amounts of the flavor an aroma I need an average ratio of 1.5 - 2 : 1 nelson to Citra. Since I personally enjoy more nelson with this combo I will up my nelson to 2.5 - 3 : 1 to the Citra.

I am doing this with all the hops in the combos I use and have found it actually has given me far more control over the flavor and aroma i plan for or envision and I get very close to the profile I was hoping to achieve in the finished beer.

i honestly can’t back this up by science but in my last 8 beers that I’ve been playing with this concept, it’s proving to work.

 

[BongoYodeler]

So I look at total oil content per 100 grams of hops (all varieties have this information in ranges and I’ll take the average.) Citra average total oil content is usuoally around 2.0-2.5 ml per 100 grams and Nelson is usually 1.1-1.5 ml per 100 gr. Since most of the flavor and aroma comes form these oil (yes there are thiols and other compound that contribute, but different oils are what’s most prevalent). Thea oil amounts tell me that Citra has on average 1.5-2.5 times the amount of oil tht Nelson haas, meaning it has potential to dominate the flavor. So if I want the Nelson and Citra to both contribute equal amounts of the flavor an aroma I need an average ration of 1.5 - 2 : 1 nelson to Citra. Since I personally enjoy more nelson with this combo I will up my nelson to 2.5 - 3 : 1 to the Citra.

I am doing this with all the hops in the combos I use and have found it actually has given me far more control over the flavor and aroma i plan for or envision and I get very close to the profile I was hoping to achieve in the finished beer.

i honestly can’t not back this up by science but in my last 8 beers that I’ve been playing with this concept, it’s proving to work.

Interesting....

 

[Dgallo]

Interesting....

It really is. I’d honestly like some folks in this thread to give it a try so we can find out how well it really works.

I’m not saying it makes a better ipa per say but it helps make good decision on hop combos and ratios. For example say you want a beer that’s is citrus forward but firm dank undertones, you could use this concept to make a good decision on a good ration that is based on the hops and their oil content

 

[couchsending]

It really is. I’d honestly like some folks in this thread to give it a try so we can find out how well it really works.

I’m not saying it makes a better ipa per say but it helps make good decision on hop combos and ratios. For example say you want a beer that’s is citrus forward but firm dank undertones, you could use this concept to make a good decision on a good ration that is based on the hops and their oil content

I understand your theory on it and I’ve heard breweries like Hop Butcher speak about it but I think there are so many other variables that apply. Nelson is a perfect example. It might not be as high in oil content but it’s packed with Thiols, maybe more than almost any hop.

Riwaka is another one that’s only like .8g/l oil content and 4-7% alpha yet paired 50/50 with Citra in my mind it would stand out above Citra.

Sultana (Denali) is another where the total oil is I think second highest to only Galaxy. Yet Citra might still overshadow it at 50/50. Sultana’s oil content might be high but it’s Thiol content isn’t near what Citra is.

There are just so many variables I find it hard to apply any sort of equation to it. Then there’s the whole issue with the actual quality of the hops you have. In my opinion. The one that smells the best is the one you should use the most of (especially on the dry hop).

 

[SteveLupoMax]

It really is. I’d honestly like some folks in this thread to give it a try so we can find out how well it really works.

I’m not saying it makes a better ipa per say but it helps make good decision on hop combos and ratios. For example say you want a beer that’s is citrus forward but firm dank undertones, you could use this concept to make a good decision on a good ration that is based on the hops and their oil content

So I'm looking to blend Motueka and Mosaic. Both have about the same total oil.
I'm looking at 8.5g/L Mosaic to 6.4g/L Motueka (1.3:1).
Thoughts?

 

[Noob_Brewer]

So I'm looking to blend Motueka and Mosaic. Both have about the same total oil.
I'm looking at 8.5g/L Mosaic to 6.4g/L Motueka (1.3:1).
Thoughts?

I really can't speak to this much because I haven't used motueka myself, but I would ask what are you trying to achieve here? Are you wanting to ensure that you get some of that "blueberry" from mosaic being more pronounced and not lost in the mix? Or are you just wanting a nice fruity type beer where the supposed "lemon lime zing" that Ive read motueka brings doesn't overpower the mosaic? Just curious as to what you are trying to achieve with your ratio.

 

[Dgallo]

I understand your theory on it and I’ve heard breweries like Hop Butcher speak about it but I think there are so many other variables that apply. Nelson is a perfect example. It might not be as high in oil content but it’s packed with Thiols, maybe more than almost any hop.

Riwaka is another one that’s only like .8g/l oil content and 4-7% alpha yet paired 50/50 with Citra in my mind it would stand out above Citra.

Sultana (Denali) is another where the total oil is I think second highest to only Galaxy. Yet Citra might still overshadow it at 50/50. Sultana’s oil content might be high but it’s Thiol content isn’t near what Citra is.

There are just so many variables I find it hard to apply any sort of equation to it. Then there’s the whole issue with the actual quality of the hops you have. In my opinion. The one that smells the best is the one you should use the most of (especially on the dry hop).

I’m sure there are many variable and The fact that we aren’t privy to the exact data on our hops either. There’s also the possible that some of the oils may be received Easier or more difficulty by our senses. That being said, this really has worked.

Again i don’t think this is something that make the beer “better” in and of its self but I strongly believe it helps design a recipe to target specific flavor and aromas. It really has worked that last 8 beers.

Give it a try in your next ipa and see if it works. Please let me know whether or not it works.

 

[SteveLupoMax]

I really can't speak to this much because I haven't used motueka myself, but I would ask what are you trying to achieve here? Are you wanting to ensure that you get some of that "blueberry" from mosaic being more pronounced and not lost in the mix? Or are you just wanting a nice fruity type beer where the supposed "lemon lime zing" that Ive read motueka brings doesn't overpower the mosaic? Just curious as to what you are trying to achieve with your ratio.

I haven't got much experience with Motueka myself. I've heard its not so great on its own and can be quite traditional. I thought I would pair it and weight it towards Mosaic for strong dank murky blueberry and fruit smoothie aroma and hope the Motueka will layer in some lighter notes. Both look to be high in myrcene so ideal for a dryhop addition.
I want the Mosaic to dominate somewhat incase I dislike the Motueka. Its only slightly weighted to Moasic so i hope it pokes its head though.

 

[SteveLupoMax]

I really can't speak to this much because I haven't used motueka myself, but I would ask what are you trying to achieve here? Are you wanting to ensure that you get some of that "blueberry" from mosaic being more pronounced and not lost in the mix? Or are you just wanting a nice fruity type beer where the supposed "lemon lime zing" that Ive read motueka brings doesn't overpower the mosaic? Just curious as to what you are trying to achieve with your ratio.

Also OtherHalf released Mosaic+ Motueka which I believe was 50/50... So must work!

 

[couchsending]

Mosaic and Motueka are very different hops. Mosaic can stand on its own, Motueka really can’t. It’s a great hop to pair but I’m not sure at 50/50, especially the Motueka that I’ve experienced on the homebrew level. It’s predominant characteristic is lime. To me that can tend to brighten the other hop somewhat. Make it more acidic citrus in some way. Motueka can also have a lot of that diesel/machine oil which can add some cool depth and complexity when it’s not overbearing. There’s an old Session podcast with the Cellarmaker guys where they talk about needing 25% more Motueka than comparable other hops in order to get to similar intensity levels... so there’s that as well. Again it always depends on what your’s is like. It can be anywhere from grassy diesel to bright lime and very tropical.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It can be anywhere from grassy diesel to bright lime and very tropical.

Also those are the kind of flavours that can be altered quite a lot by yeast.

 

[SteveLupoMax]

Also those are the kind of flavours that can be altered quite a lot by yeast.

Ok. interesting. Have you got any insight into how to manipulate either way?

 

[couchsending]

Also those are the kind of flavours that can be altered quite a lot by yeast.

Not with any yeast that post people are making hazy IPA with. That stuff smells like grass and diesel in the bag it will 100% smell like grass and diesel in the beer. Experienced it many a time. Hotside additions will minimize it for many reasons but any DH it will 100% come through.

 

[SteveLupoMax]

Not with any yeast that post people are making hazy IPA with. That stuff smells like grass and diesel in the bag it will 100% smell like grass and diesel in the beer. Experienced it many a time. Hotside additions will minimize it for many reasons but any DH it will 100% come through.

OK good tip. What If I used a yeast known to biotransform?
There's a lot of talk on here about skipping the mid dryhop addition and soft crashing, collecting yeast then dryhoping. Is there still enough yeast in suspension and yeast activity to biotransform at this time?
And do we know what yeasts actively biotransform?