New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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The main benefit of colder dryhop temps is limiting or stop the activity of the yeast so you don’t have hop creep That ultimately leads to hop burn

Has dropping the dry hops in the middle of fermentation ("biotransformation" I believe being the goal) fallen out of favor? This question is for anyone but it was Dgallo that got me thinking about it. I see the above (yeast stops, chill, then dry hop) happening in this thread seemingly exclusively these days.
 
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Dgallo

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Has dropping the dry hops in the middle of fermentation ("biotransformation" I believe being the goal) fallen out of favor? This question is for anyone but it was Dgallo that got me thinking about it. I see the above (yeast stops, chill, then dry hop) happening in this thread seemingly exclusively these days.
I would say It isn’t anywhere near as big of a thing anymore. Most compounds don’t convert and few yeast make it happen. Bio transformation can occur from hotside additions. Some breweries/hbers definitely still do it but I do not. I find it a waste of bright character and also that it creates hopburn and lower fgs.
 

Northern_Brewer

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Do you have any literature that? I havent seen that before and seems like an awesome study if they found specific dryhop temps from compounds.
Suspect there may be confusion between dry hopping and whirlpool temperatures?
 

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Has dropping the dry hops in the middle of fermentation ("biotransformation" I believe being the goal) fallen out of favor? This question is for anyone but it was Dgallo that got me thinking about it. I see the above (yeast stops, chill, then dry hop) happening in this thread seemingly exclusively these days.
Biotransformation still occurs from hops in the WP. Only certain yeasts can do it, and only certain hops produce compounds ready for BT. But DHing during active primary fermentation seems to have lost its luster in the past few years.
 

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Has dropping the dry hops in the middle of fermentation ("biotransformation" I believe being the goal) fallen out of favor? This question is for anyone but it was Dgallo that got me thinking about it. I see the above (yeast stops, chill, then dry hop) happening in this thread seemingly exclusively these days.

I was just watching one of the presentations from Homebrew Con 2022 on Biotransformation. The data that presented seem to indicate that 1) it really did not matter when you added the hops, you still got the same biotransformation effects and 2) the changes that we labeled as "Biotransformation" a few years ago are really quite subtle. The really impactful "Biotransformations" are related to Thiols and driven by added enzymes and GMO yeasts.

They did have one slide noting that dry hopping early can have some impacts on the overall character of the hops not related to Biotransformation like less herbal character from the hops.
 

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If even a genetically manipulated heavy biotransformative yeast's effects get overshadowed by a moderate dryhop I do not know why any other yeasts would have any effects.
Temperature does have an effect, I can tell a warm dryhopped beer apart from a cold one, each have its own place in certain styles.
 

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I was just watching one of the presentations from Homebrew Con 2022 on Biotransformation. The data that presented seem to indicate that 1) it really did not matter when you added the hops, you still got the same biotransformation effects and 2) the changes that we labeled as "Biotransformation" a few years ago are really quite subtle. The really impactful "Biotransformations" are related to Thiols and driven by added enzymes and GMO yeasts.

They did have one slide noting that dry hopping early can have some impacts on the overall character of the hops not related to Biotransformation like less herbal character from the hops.
Do you have a link to the presentation?
 

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If even a genetically manipulated heavy biotransformative yeast's effects get overshadowed by a moderate dryhop
What yeast are you taking about? It’s been my experience that thiolized yeast strains completely overshadow the hops.

I brewed a west coast ipa with start party heavily dryhoping with Simcoe, Citra, and strata and got no hops at all. Just pure guava. Had a thiolized lager and blonde ale from local breweries and both tasted like the ipa I dumped a 3-4lb/bbl dryhop in
 

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What yeast are you taking about? It’s been my experience that thiolized yeast strains completely overshadow the hops.

I brewed a west coast ipa with start party heavily dryhoping with Simcoe, Citra, and strata and got no hops at all. Just pure guava. Had a thiolized lager and blonde ale from local breweries and both tasted like the ipa I dumped a 3-4lb/bbl dryhop in
I only have experience with the cosmic punch and did 3 split brews with la3 to compare, I didnt get anything from it, I would even argue the la3 popped more.
 

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@beervoid Pretty sure Star Party increases thiol production 1000x and Cosmic Punch 10x. That might be why you're not getting the full effect, like @Dgallo

I've read that breweries are using these strains to greatly reduce the amount of hopping/DHing and getting fantastic results. I have yet to experiment with thiolized yeasts, but it's on my list. I just kegged an all Simcoe NEIPA with Omega British Ale V yeast yesterday, and the aroma is more potent than any NEIPA I've made so far. I'll have to wait to taste, but it reminds me a little of LAIII and Imperial Juice. Not harsh at all though, which I sometimes get early with LAIII.

This is straight from Omega site: All about our Thiolized yeast series
 

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Do you have a link to the presentation?
AHA membership is required: I Can't Believe It's Not Biotransformation!

Rant: For 2022 they just recorded the audio from the presentations so you have to listen and try to figure out which slide the presenter is on. Also, you miss out on any animation of the presentation or additional info you would get from seeing the presenter. I am not a fan of this format vs prior years.
 

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@beervoid Pretty sure Star Party increases thiol production 1000x and Cosmic Punch 10x. That might be why you're not getting the full effect, like @Dgallo

I've read that breweries are using these strains to greatly reduce the amount of hopping/DHing and getting fantastic results. I have yet to experiment with thiolized yeasts, but it's on my list. I just kegged an all Simcoe NEIPA with Omega British Ale V yeast yesterday, and the aroma is more potent than any NEIPA I've made so far. I'll have to wait to taste, but it reminds me a little of LAIII and Imperial Juice. Not harsh at all though, which I sometimes get early with LAIII.

This is straight from Omega site: All about our Thiolized yeast series
Possible yeah, its probably good for a non dryhopped beer, I dont really found it to be complimentary or have any effect on my beers which all had the equivalent of 3-4lbs per barrel dry hop.
I dont think you would be able to get the same complexity out of it as hops.
 

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Listened to a podcast while biking to work this AM, "Beersmith home and beer brewing", this one "Dry hopping with Scott Janish" (Sept 16, 2021). He mentioned (as discussed a few posts above) that dry hopping cooler would get less vegetative flavors and such from the hops vs. cooler. Also I gathered that the biotransformation was sort of a thing that happened at any time and didn't have to be done at high krausen. I think basically backing up what was already explained to me earlier (thanks again).

I did notice he seemed to recommend whirlpool at 180F, that there was more flavor and less vegetative than if done cooler. I'd always stayed at 170 or so to try and not add the IBU's. Wondered if anyone had experimented with this?

Hopefully a thought provoking question and I'm not just behind the curve here. The overall podcast was pretty good, the different compounds and when they are extracted.
 

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Listened to a podcast while biking to work this AM, "Beersmith home and beer brewing", this one "Dry hopping with Scott Janish" (Sept 16, 2021). He mentioned (as discussed a few posts above) that dry hopping cooler would get less vegetative flavors and such from the hops vs. cooler. Also I gathered that the biotransformation was sort of a thing that happened at any time and didn't have to be done at high krausen. I think basically backing up what was already explained to me earlier (thanks again).

I did notice he seemed to recommend whirlpool at 180F, that there was more flavor and less vegetative than if done cooler. I'd always stayed at 170 or so to try and not add the IBU's. Wondered if anyone had experimented with this?

Hopefully a thought provoking question and I'm not just behind the curve here. The overall podcast was pretty good, the different compounds and when they are extracted.
I too have dropped my WP temp from 180F to 170F. It's probably not the end all, but I do feel that the lower WP temp and dropping yeast before DHing produces a smoother drinking beer sooner.
 

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My Cutting Tiles spin-off kept cold and dry through Ian. Best tasting beer I’ve ever had!
 

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I just ordered 4 different packs of Cryo as I haven't tried them yet. How effective is using one ounce (with some t90) in the dry hop? Or should I buy more of each?
 

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I use Strata. I like it a lot. Paired 50/50 with Citra in my 2nd to last NEIPA, and I got dank and grapefruit from it, but definitely not strawberry or bubble gum. 2021 YVH Simcoe has a lot of strawberry and vanilla early on that fades to sweet orange. Simcoe is the most complex hop I've used in NEIPAs so far.
 

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I use Strata. I like it a lot. Paired 50/50 with Citra in my 2nd to last NEIPA, and I got dank and grapefruit from it, but definitely not strawberry or bubble gum. 2021 YVH Simcoe has a lot of strawberry and vanilla early on that fades to sweet orange. Simcoe is the most complex hop I've used in NEIPAs so far.
What's even better is that this hop is very versatile and is also often utilized in WC IPA! Kind of a bummer that YVH don't have Simcoe Lupomax though...
 

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Gents, quick question (hopefully not off topic). I am about to brew a Neipa over the weekend. I crushed the grains beginning of July 2022, but do to workload i couldnt brew earlier.

You reckon the grains are good to go ahead, or just toss them away. I hve them stored in a cupboard ( not air sealed) in temperatures around 30-32 degrees celcius.

Thank you!
 

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Gents, quick question (hopefully not off topic). I am about to brew a Neipa over the weekend. I crushed the grains beginning of July 2022, but do to workload i couldnt brew earlier.

You reckon the grains are good to go ahead, or just toss them away. I hve them stored in a cupboard ( not air sealed) in temperatures around 30-32 degrees celcius.

Thank you!
Might be dry as heck a may cause a lot of clumping so make sure you add the grains slowly
 

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Might be dry as heck a may cause a lot of clumping so make sure you add the grains slowly
Thank you for this. So you dont foresee any loss in efficiencies or change in taste/ color of the final product?
 

Dgallo

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Thank you for this. So you dont foresee any loss in efficiencies or change in taste/ color of the final product?
I mean it certainly could have an impact on those variables, I missed that they weren’t stored air right . I personally would not use them if they were already crushed but I’m also exceptionally particular with my ingredients and process.
 

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Gents, quick question (hopefully not off topic). I am about to brew a Neipa over the weekend. I crushed the grains beginning of July 2022, but do to workload i couldnt brew earlier.

You reckon the grains are good to go ahead, or just toss them away. I hve them stored in a cupboard ( not air sealed) in temperatures around 30-32 degrees celcius.

Thank you!
Are they in a bucket or plastic bag?
Smell and taste some, if it smells or tastes stale, toss it, or use for starter wort. I made 3 gallons of concentrated starter wort from several years old (uncrushed) Pilsner. Actually, it tasted darn good. I'm doing it again, using up the remainder.

I've had times where a batch of milled grain sat around for a several weeks, in a bucket at 65-68F, with no adverse effects.
At one of our grain buys one brewer inadvertently ended up with a sack of milled Vienna, shipped from the distributor. Of course he wasn't thrilled about it, but reported no negative effects. I'm quite sure it took him a few months to use it up.
 

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Going to try Lupomax for this first time and can't wait. Last time i did a 6oz DH of Cashmere so can't wait to see what the Lupomax brings to the party. Last keg got kicked in no time.

.5 Magnum @ 60
1 oz Galaxy @ 10
1oz Strata @ 10

3oz Strata WP
1oz Galaxy

2oz Galazy DH
2oz Strate DH
4oz Cashmere LUPOMAX DH
 

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Did anyone do this recipe with exctract? been trying to find a solution to some of the ingredients like the oats. Thanks
 

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I did when I first started brewing. You can steep all the adjuncts and use extract for the base. I would recommend using Pilsner DME to keep the color light.
do you have a written ratios?
did you also steep the oats? what kind did you use? I have made some research but couldn't find any conclusive data on how to deal with oats in extract brewing
 

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do you have a written ratios?
did you also steep the oats? what kind did you use? I have made some research but couldn't find any conclusive data on how to deal with oats in extract brewing
Depends on how strong you want it. If my notes are correct I did 8 oz of flaked oats and 8 oz of flaked wheat steeped at 155ish, then 7 lbs pilsner DME. My OG was 1.073.

I've read some people add the extract during the last 15 min of the boil to keep the color down. I boiled it for 60 min...
 

Dgallo

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I did when I first started brewing. You can steep all the adjuncts and use extract for the base. I would recommend using Pilsner DME to keep the color light.
I actually make a fair amount of dme NEIPAS.

3 lbs - Pilsen lite dme
3 lbs - Bavarian Wheat DME
Steep at 155-160*f for 30 mins
2 lbs Pilsner malt crushed (you need this for conversion of the oats)
2 lbs flaked oats or crushed malted oats

Then hop it as you would for the recipe
 

Dgallo

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Depends on how strong you want it. If my notes are correct I did 8 oz of flaked oats and 8 oz of flaked wheat steeped at 155ish, then 7 lbs pilsner DME. My OG was 1.073.

I've read some people add the extract during the last 15 min of the boil to keep the color down. I boiled it for 60 min...
If you don’t use a malted grain with the flaked stuff, none of it will get converted into sugar, it will stay Starch
 

ihavenonickname

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Yeah I’ve done a very similar scheme to @Dgallo. It works really well as a quick and easy no boil beer too - just pull the steeping grains (I like oats and GP) Raise to 175 and add whirpool hops. (Edit: while the water is heating from 150 to 175 I dissolve the DME.)
You avoid all the DMS precursors at that low temp and the DME was already boiled.
 
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ahayuval

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I actually make a fair amount of dme NEIPAS.

3 lbs - Pilsen lite dme
3 lbs - Bavarian Wheat DME
Steep at 155-160*f for 30 mins
2 lbs Pilsner malt crushed (you need this for conversion of the oats)
2 lbs flaked oats or crushed malted oats

Then hop it as you would for the recipe
Hey thank for the reply all of your guys!
Can you clarify for me?

First step is steeping the pilsner malt and the flaked oats?
And then remove the grains from the water, And after that you boiland add the DME?
 
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