New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[VirginiaHops1]

I'm sure some of you are doing this, but anyone routinely spunding their NEIPAs? I'm putting a recipe together and trying to figure out timing on dry hops so that I can transfer to the serving keg and spund.

I was still planning on doing the active fermentation dry hop but where I'm getting stuck is when to do the second dry hop while still being able to transfer to the keg with ~4 gravity points left.

How are you guys doing this? I get the impression that some, or most, of you have moved to one single dry hop instead of 2?

I use a 2nd keg to dry hop usually but if I don't feel like doing that or don't have a dry hop keg available I'll sometimes dry hop and spund at around 60-72 hours in when fermentation is slowing but still bubbling a little. My main motivation honestly is just O2 because I really don't like opening my fermenter to dry hop once it's completely done. Some batches start faster or tear through fermentation faster so it varies a little on when I add it but I try to just catch it when there's still bubbling but it's slowing. Obviously not super precise in terms of adding at a specific amount of gravity left.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I use a 2nd keg to dry hop usually but if I don't feel like doing that or don't have a dry hop keg available I'll sometimes dry hop and spund at around 60-72 hours in when fermentation is slowing but still bubbling a little. My main motivation honestly is just O2 because I really don't like opening my fermenter to dry hop once it's completely done. Some batches start faster or tear through fermentation faster so it varies a little on when I add it but I try to just catch it when there's still bubbling but it's slowing. Obviously not super precise in terms of adding at a specific amount of gravity left.

Are you only doing 1 dry hop?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Are you only doing 1 dry hop?

Yeah, I do either a huge dry hop after fermentation is done and yeast crashed, or dry hop at the tail end and then spund. I've been meaning to do both at some point and see what happens, just have been having good results so haven't tinkered with my process much lately

 

[Rob2010SS]

So if I'm trying to maintain the 2 dry hops, I could...

-Dry hop #1 day 1-2 (active fermentation) in fermenter
-Dry hop #2 with 10-12 points in fermentation left
-Transfer to keg with ~4 points in fermentation left
-Spund in keg

I've been reading the posts regarding the "soft crash" at 60 though to drop out yeast. With the above method, I wouldn't be able to do that because fermentation is still going.

I could change it to be...

-Dry hop #1 day 1-2 (active fermentation)
-Once ferm is finished, soft crash to 60*F with CO2 hooked up to avoid oxygen for the most part
-Dry hop #2 for 2-3 days at 60*F
-Closed transfer to completely purged serving keg

I have been reading a lot of low oxygen brewing material and have it in my head that I need to spund EVERYTHING. Perhaps spunding isn't needed if your process is fairly tight?

EDIT: Just to clarify, haven't spunded yet. Just got my ball lock spunding valve but don't have the ability to spund in the fermenter yet.

 

[wepeeler]

So if I'm trying to maintain the 2 dry hops, I could...

-Dry hop #1 day 1-2 (active fermentation) in fermenter
-Dry hop #2 with 10-12 points in fermentation left
-Transfer to keg with ~4 points in fermentation left
-Spund in keg

I've been reading the posts regarding the "soft crash" at 60 though to drop out yeast. With the above method, I wouldn't be able to do that because fermentation is still going.

I could change it to be...

-Dry hop #1 day 1-2 (active fermentation)
-Once ferm is finished, soft crash to 60*F with CO2 hooked up to avoid oxygen for the most part
-Dry hop #2 for 2-3 days at 60*F
-Closed transfer to completely purged serving keg

I have been reading a lot of low oxygen brewing material and have it in my head that I need to spund EVERYTHING. Perhaps spunding isn't needed if your process is fairly tight?

EDIT: Just to clarify, haven't spunded yet. Just got my ball lock spunding valve but don't have the ability to spund in the fermenter yet.

I still DDH. I do 1st charge 12-24 hours after active fermentation begins, and then 24-48 hours before kegging. Aroma lasts for weeks.

 

[Rob2010SS]

I still DDH. I do 1st charge 12-24 hours after active fermentation begins, and then 24-48 hours before kegging. Aroma lasts for weeks.

Good to hear!

Do you perform the soft crashing at all?
Do you spund these NEIPAs at all?

 

[wepeeler]

Good to hear!

Do you perform the soft crashing at all?
Do you spund these NEIPAs at all?

I don't spund.

I've crashed before and after dry hopping, and to me, I can't tell any difference in flavor. But haze seems to be a bit more stable when I dry hop before crashing. My temps are usually right around 60 when dry hopping.

 

[murphyslaw]

I've found Aslin to be hit or miss. I haven't had a lot of their stuff, one or two excellent examples, a couple disappointing ones. Unlike most imitators, they seemed to be more yeast driven. It wasnt just a hoppy beer.

If you get a chance, @VirginiaHops1, check out Astro Lab in Silver Spring. It's the only other local brewery I've found to make a decent NEIPA.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

@murphyslaw , thanks for the recommendation. I don't get over there to MD much but next time I'm in that area I'll check them out. The best/most consistent on my side of the river for the style IMO are Ocelot and Solace.

In terms of the 1 dry hop or 2, I think it's split even among the big hitter commercial guys. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I've heard some say they don't dry hop until after hitting terminal and crashing but I've heard some say they do it twice.

 

[Rob2010SS]

@murphyslaw , thanks for the recommendation. I don't get over there to MD much but next time I'm in that area I'll check them out. The best/most consistent on my side of the river for the style IMO are Ocelot and Solace.

In terms of the 1 dry hop or 2, I think it's split even among the big hitter commercial guys. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I've heard some say they don't dry hop until after hitting terminal and crashing but I've heard some say they do it twice.

I just recently watched a video where they interviewed the owner of weldworks. They were talking about dry hopping and how many times they dry hop juicy bits and I wrote it all down at work so I don't have it in front of me but it was 2 or 3 times they dry hop that one. Never had juicy bits myself but it's gotten a lot of good reviews

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I just recently watched a video where they interviewed the owner of weldworks. They were talking about dry hopping and how many times they dry hop juicy bits and I wrote it all down at work so I don't have it in front of me but it was 2 or 3 times they dry hop that one. Never had juicy bits myself but it's gotten a lot of good reviews

Lawson's Finest crashes and then dry hops. Triple Crossing which a lot of people here haven't heard of but is one of the best hazy makers in Richmond does it twice. I think Monkish said they dry hop after fermentation. Janish said he does it twice. Aslin which I was critical of in this thread does it after fermentation. Pinthouse Pizza said they experiment with it both ways.

 

[BeerFst]

I just recently watched a video where they interviewed the owner of weldworks. They were talking about dry hopping and how many times they dry hop juicy bits and I wrote it all down at work so I don't have it in front of me but it was 2 or 3 times they dry hop that one. Never had juicy bits myself but it's gotten a lot of good reviews

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beeran...-brewing-co-juicy-bits-new-england-style-ipa/

 

[Rob2010SS]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beeran...-brewing-co-juicy-bits-new-england-style-ipa/

Yep that lines up with what I remember from this video

 

[leesmith]

I just paired Riwaka, Nelson, Citra, and Columbus (3.5:1.5:1:1 ratio)in a TIPA and Riwaka is really unique. It’s like like sweet and zesty citrus with a hint of pine but there’s this huge punch like profile to it. It’s got that nz hop thing but def brings more dimensions. I think you’ll like it

Have you used Riwaka on its own? I’m curious if it stands up to a single hop beer.

 

[Dgallo]

Have you used Riwaka on its own? I’m curious if it stands up to a single hop beer.

I have not but I’ve had Hill Farmstead Double Riwaka twice and it did. That’s why I chose to pair it in an ipa not make a single hop pale with it.

 

[jturman35]

Yep that lines up with what I remember from this video

Has anyone that used this recipe consider it a clone?

 

[leesmith]

I have not but I’ve had Hill Farmstead Double Riwaka twice and it did. That’s why I chose to pair it in an ipa not make a single hop pale with it.

Yeah I had the Riwaka Pale Ale there. Frankly (this is my favorite brewery) it wasn't that expressive. At the time I was enthralled with Mary on draft....so that could have been clouding my judgment. Thanks for replying...just curious what another brewers experience was with it....considering their usage and process.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah I had the Riwaka Pale Ale there. Frankly (this is my favorite brewery) it wasn't that expressive. At the time I was enthralled with Mary on draft....so that could have been clouding my judgment. Thanks for replying...just curious what another brewers experience was with it....considering their usage and process.

I’d still say single hop if or just do a small bittering charge of magnum and then riwaka from there on out. It has a very high oil content for being such a low alpha. My batch was 5.1 alpha only. Used 7 ounces of it in the triple

 

[Andre3000]

I just paired Riwaka, Nelson, Citra, and Columbus (3.5:1.5:1:1 ratio)in a TIPA and Riwaka is really unique. It’s like like sweet and zesty citrus with a hint of pine but there’s this huge punch like profile to it. It’s got that nz hop thing but def brings more dimensions. I think you’ll like it

That sounds AMAZING. Dank-bomb? Love dank brews.

 

[Dgallo]

That sounds AMAZING. Dank-bomb? Love dank brews.

Only in the finish. I didn’t use too much Columbus only 2 oz to have it in the undertones so it would be an absolute fruit bomb

 

[Andre3000]

Good to hear!

Do you perform the soft crashing at all?
Do you spund these NEIPAs at all?

Here's my take on spunding.

This may be obvious to some, but you have to be very deliberate about how you do it. Janish posted something here:
http://scottjanish.com/headspace-hazy-ipa-oxidation/

He kind of alludes to it. I think the problem here was that he pressurized with air inside. If you do this or you pressurize right at yeast pitch, by the time the yeast start producing enough CO2 to overcome the pressure of the air/CO2 mix, you will have already oxidized. The effect is magnified with increasing headspace.

My first two NEIPAs in my 10 gal kegmenter seen here:



with hop cannon were like his. Super oxidized. So I've changed my process. Now I let the beer almost go to completion under atmospheric, then spund, and lo and behold, no oxidation.

The message here is, be sure when you pressurize, there is absolutely no air left in the system, or all you will be doing is forcing O2 into your beer. This can be tricky if you aren't careful about yeast activity and how you're dry hopping.

Because of this, I would also present the argument that improper spunding like mentioned above is actually worse than not closed transferring, depending on the method used (keg purge, etc).

 

[jturman35]

Update:

I tried my first attempt at soft crashing down to 58 for 2 days then raised the temp around 64deg for a very short 36 hr dry hop. (3Motueka/2Simcoe/1Sabro)Aroma is very muted but I’m enjoying the flavor. I’m wondering if the Simcoe/Sabro being from 2018 has anything to do with the aroma. They didn’t seem to pop out of the package. Hard to explain, but has a beer aroma that I have never experienced in a NEIPA. I am picking up on the hop oils which is nice. Bitterness is tame and seems balanced but the aroma just isn’t there. Maybe it’s still green at day 14 in the keg.

I have a Citra only beer that’s two months old and it has quite a bit more aroma. Could just be my hop combo is clashing. This is still a good beer, but im looking for that unicorn! I may rebrew and on the next batch use (3Simcoe/2Motueka/1.5 Bravo) i want more coconut. I am also thinking of layering the whirlpool hops just like the Juicy Bits clone.

 

[Dgallo]

Update:

I tried my first attempt at soft crashing down to 58 for 2 days then raised the temp around 64deg for a very short 36 hr dry hop. (3Motueka/2Simcoe/1Sabro)Aroma is very muted but I’m enjoying the flavor. I’m wandering if the Simcoe/Sabro being from 2018 has anything to do with it. They didn’t seem to pop out of the package. Hard to explain, but has a beer aroma that I have never experienced in a NEIPA. I am picking up on the hop oils which is nice. Bitterness is tame and seems balance but the aroma just isn’t there.Maybe it’s still green at day 14 in the keg.

I have a Citra only beer that’s two months old and it has quite a bit more aroma. Could be my hop combo is clashing.



View attachment 663613

What did it look like during dryhoping. I feel like that’s s large amount all at ounce for only a day and a half of contact time. Where they bagged? If not did you aggregate.

I do a dbl dry hop one for 72, the other for 48 and have 3-4 oz in each and aggregate that seems to give me the best result.

 

[jturman35]

What did it look like during dryhoping. I feel like that’s s large amount all at ounce for only a day and a half of contact time. Where they bagged? If not did you aggregate.

I do a dbl dry hop one for 72, the other for 48 and have 3-4 oz in each and aggregate that seems to give me the best result.

Dgallo, i threw them in loose and they floated straight to the bottom of the conical, I could see them in the site glass. The all Citra beer i did 2oz of citra (day 3) day12 and 2oz in the keg. This turned out very good! I will probably go back to DDH and a small keg charge.

 

[beervoid]

Have you used Riwaka on its own? I’m curious if it stands up to a single hop beer.

Just kegged a riwaka citra.. 6oz riwaka and bit of citra cryo. Its delicious! Very limy fruity.

 

[Dgallo]

Dgallo, i threw them in loose and they floated straight to the bottom of the conical, I could see them in the site glass. The all Citra beer i did 2oz of citra (day 3) day12 and 2oz in the keg. This turned out very good! I will probably go back to DDH and a small keg charge.

Were you able to drop trub and yeast prior to dryhoping?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Here's my take on spunding.

This may be obvious to some, but you have to be very deliberate about how you do it. Janish posted something here:
http://scottjanish.com/headspace-hazy-ipa-oxidation/

He kind of alludes to it. I think the problem here was that he pressurized with air inside. If you do this or you pressurize right at yeast pitch, by the time the yeast start producing enough CO2 to overcome the pressure of the air/CO2 mix, you will have already oxidized. The effect is magnified with increasing headspace.

My first two NEIPAs in my 10 gal kegmenter seen here:

View attachment 663600

with hop cannon were like his. Super oxidized. So I've changed my process. Now I let the beer almost go to completion under atmospheric, then spund, and lo and behold, no oxidation.

The message here is, be sure when you pressurize, there is absolutely no air left in the system, or all you will be doing is forcing O2 into your beer. This can be tricky if you aren't careful about yeast activity and how you're dry hopping.

Because of this, I would also present the argument that improper spunding like mentioned above is actually worse than not closed transferring, depending on the method used (keg purge, etc).

He didn't spund improperly. His fermenter had a leak and his beer was oxidized before he even dry hopped and added the spunding valve. The massive headspace his fermenter had definitely exasperated the issue. In this situation he don't even need to spund since fermentation is done and there's no activity to manage but maybe he wanted to just see a precise psi number. If you have a properly sealing keg you can dry hop, purge and pressurize it. I've done it many times in the past without major oxidation issues. I do it a little differently now to minimize O2 even more but I never had whole batches go bad doing it the previous way.

 

[jturman35]

Were you able to drop trub and yeast prior to dryhoping?

Yes, I dropped yeast and trub until i could see beer in the site glass.

 

[Dgallo]

This is my most recent NEIPA. It’s a triple at 10.5% abv. Riwaka, Nelson, Citra, and Columbus. 2 row, white wheat, flaked oats, and honey malt. Finish 1.018.

 

[Frieds]

This is my most recent NEIPA. It’s a triple at 10.5% abv. Riwaka, Nelson, Citra, and Columbus. 2 row, white wheat, flaked oats, and honey malt. Finish 1.018. View attachment 663771

What’s giving it that lovely orange juice colour? I find a lot of my hazies are more on the yellow side. I usually just use Golden Promise & Oats but my latest brew i used some Vienna as well and was happier with the colour, but It’s still something I’m trying to work on.

Edit: Here is my latest brew for comparison. I do like the way it looks but it still doesn’t have that amazing orange juice aesthetic like yours.