New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

I feel like we’re moving in the right direction here!

What I’d love to see is a the following type of information for all hops, using Mosaic as an example:

From BSG “Strong impressions of citrus oil, balsam pine, blueberry, peach and tropical fruit. Notable mango character, but also shades of lime and mandarin orange.”

Which aroma/flavor profile is accentuated by boil, whirlpool or dry hop additions? Does blueberry come out more when boiled or dry hopped?

Now I get exactly what you’re asking. In my experience strong blueberry comes out in specific batches. I’ve had good success couxing out some blue berry notes out by using a small amount of cryo in whirlpool like an oz and about 2/3 oz in dryhop. That being said it’s not consistent for me. I recently did a single hop double with mosaic and it started out quite dank/B.O. but after about 2 weeks it was solid blueberry. That leads me to believe it’s more grow lot specific

 

[leesmith]

Which aroma/flavor profile is accentuated by boil, whirlpool or dry hop additions? Does blueberry come out more when boiled or dry hopped?

This is where I lack knowledge.

I lean towards keeping all my additions at flameout. I’ve given up on any extended whirlpooling at lower temps....don’t feel like it adds much. Flameout and cooling right away do it for me. The beer benefits from a quick 212-200 degree soak of the hops before chilling.

There are many variables such as ingredient quality which could effect perception of a given trait of a particular hop. Even crop year could effect that trait or harvest time. Things like this cause me to limit my process.

 

[isomerization]

Now I get exactly what you’re asking. In my experience strong blueberry comes out in specific batches. I’ve had good success couxing out some blue berry notes out by using a small amount of cryo in whirlpool like an oz and about 2/3 oz in dryhop. That being said it’s not consistent for me. I recently did a single hop double with mosaic and it started out quite dank/B.O. but after about 2 weeks it was solid blueberry. That leads me to believe it’s more grow lot specific

So it may be impossible to really nail down usage specific outcomes. Mosaic seems like one of the “easiest” to do this with (maybe because of its diverse profile?) and yet there are still variable outcomes.

 

[couchsending]

Mosaic is al over the map. The blueberry note is very lot specific I think.

Got a buddy that does selection for a large craft brewery. He said the first four lots of Mosaic YCH gave him to rub were terrible. One was super onion/garlic, one was incredibly woody and said it didn’t resemble Mosaic at all. Had to ask them to bring out more...

I don’t think there’s any way you can say for certain what process delivers what flavor/aroma. Maybe if you’re a large brewery and have one lot to brew with all the time. As a homebrewer, no way.

 

[couchsending]

Funny I’ve used oats for maybe the last four batches and three of those beers have cleared quite a bit in the keg. It was about 5% oats in each. Haven’t used oats in a hoppy beer in maybe a year. I don’t recall any highly hopped beer with just 2 row and carafoam ever clearing.

That experiment is over with.

 

[beervoid]

Funny I’ve used oats for maybe the last four batches and three of those beers have cleared quite a bit in the keg. It was about 5% oats in each. Haven’t used oats in a hoppy beer in maybe a year. I don’t recall any highly hopped beer with just 2 row and carafoam ever clearing.

That experiment is over with.

I recall reading research on haze stability and wheat. It was mentioned there I believe that below 10% or above 20% it can actually make beer more clear. Perhaps this is the same with oats?
Scott Janish also wrote about the study in his new book.

Which type of oats did you use?
What was the ph post fermentation?

 

[leesmith]

Funny I’ve used oats for maybe the last four batches and three of those beers have cleared quite a bit in the keg. It was about 5% oats in each. Haven’t used oats in a hoppy beer in maybe a year. I don’t recall any highly hopped beer with just 2 row and carafoam ever clearing.

That experiment is over with.

I had mentioned you in another thread about this style in regards to haze, dry hop timing, and flavor and aroma stability. But maybe the oats this person is using is causing more of his issue than dry hop timing.

New England Style IPA issues
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/New-England-Style-IPA-issues.671182/

 

[JohnConnor]

Funny I’ve used oats for maybe the last four batches and three of those beers have cleared quite a bit in the keg. It was about 5% oats in each. Haven’t used oats in a hoppy beer in maybe a year. I don’t recall any highly hopped beer with just 2 row and carafoam ever clearing.

That experiment is over with.

Weird, I just did one with 7ish % oats (I like oats because the beer looks brighter for some reason) and it's probably the haziest beer I'm made in awhile. It's been in the keg for 2 months (I've been traveling a lot) and it shows no signs of clearing.

 

[BeerFst]

We’re talking flaked or malted here right? Just checking it’s not Golden naked oats, though they are malted, are a like a crystal Malt, and on their own I doubt would add much protein

 

[couchsending]

Flaked

 

[nick sekerak]

Weird, I just did one with 7ish % oats (I like oats because the beer looks brighter for some reason) and it's probably the haziest beer I'm made in awhile. It's been in the keg for 2 months (I've been traveling a lot) and it shows no signs of clearing.

I have been using only flaked oats and wheat about 10% of each i all my batch except the last one where I tried malted oats & wheat. And have not had any haze loss with either. I do say I think I like using malted because it is giving my brew a smoother mouthfeel and is less astringent quicker.

 

[Dgallo]

Completely changing it up but has anyone had anything from Equilibrium lately. They may be winning right now

 

[braindead]

Luckily had some at a tap takeover here in the Uk and was blown away.
Had some amazing American beers at IndyMan Beer Con here in the UK a few weeks ago.
Arclight blew me away, Cascade were on point and had a great chat with big Mike.
Wasn't too impressed by Other half and Finback, had them last year and loved them.

Still never had Treehouse yet : (

Anyone interested in UK trades

Cant believe you guys get 4 x Equilibrium, Trillium etc for $20

We pay £8 for 1 juicy from Verdant, Cloudwater

 

[couchsending]

Transferred a hoppy beer I brewed about 5 days ago into a keg full of 2019 leaf hops from Hops Direct. Citra, Amarillo, and a touch of Centennial. About 6 ounces.

I used fermentation to hopefully purge the keg of all O2.

Beer was I think about .001 from Terminal. Relying on a bit of hop creep to hopefully carbonate the beer as well, we’ll see.

Used a very flocculent yeast so hoping to transfer minimal amounts of yeast into the dry hop keg. Harvested right before transfer without soft crashing and got a ton of yeast out of it.

Leaf was bagged with some stainless weights. Dip tube screen as well.

Interested to see if it works. I’ll cold crash and transfer to a serving keg when all is said and done.

 

[leesmith]

Transferred a hoppy beer I brewed about 5 days ago into a keg full of 2019 leaf hops from Hops Direct. Citra, Amarillo, and a touch of Centennial. About 6 ounces.

I used fermentation to hopefully purge the keg of all O2.

Beer was I think about .001 from Terminal. Relying on a bit of hop creep to hopefully carbonate the beer as well, we’ll see.

Used a very flocculent yeast so hoping to transfer minimal amounts of yeast into the dry hop keg. Harvested right before transfer without soft crashing and got a ton of yeast out of it.

Leaf was bagged with some stainless weights. Dip tube screen as well.

Interested to see if it works. I’ll cold crash and transfer to a serving keg when all is said and done.

Why leaf?

 

[couchsending]

Why leaf?

Cause Hops Direct had a bunch of 2019 available and it’s not that expensive. Both the Citra and Amarillo smelled awesome. Been using leaf more these days. Using a hopback stuffed with leaf for Pilsners and IPA/Pales for the last 7 or 8 beers I think. Enjoying the results.

Never dry hopped with leaf and probably wouldn’t except with this process.

 

[braindead]

What are you guys finding the best methods for carbonation.
Set it and forget it?

 

[schematix]

What are you guys finding the best methods for carbonation.
Set it and forget it?

Spunding, if you like your flavor and aroma to hang around. If you want it brown and meh by the time it’s carbonated then yah, set it and forget it will achieve that end.

 

[Dgallo]

Spunding, if you like your flavor and aroma to hang around. If you want it brown and meh by the time it’s carbonated then yah, set it and forget it will achieve that end.

This beer was closed transfered into a purged keg and literally force carbed by rocking back and forth for 4 minutes at 30 psi, than set to 10 psi.

Day 1:

Day 56:

Not a brown mess. Cleared a little and aroma/flavor down slightly but that’s just settling from time.

 

[couchsending]

Spunding, if you like your flavor and aroma to hang around. If you want it brown and meh by the time it’s carbonated then yah, set it and forget it will achieve that end.

That’s a rather bold statement.

I do believe that the mouthfeel from natural carbonation is better but there is a fine line between keeping O2 at bay by spunding and having too much yeast in suspension that will drag hop oils down when it floccs.

If you are really meticulous about minimizing O2 pickup you can make a more Aromatic beer that will last just as long as a spunded one.

I’ve never once had a beer darken in color. If that happens you’re doing something seriously wrong. I force carb 80% of my hoppy beers and the aroma tends to get better by week 2-3 in the keg and not fall off really from there.

Set it and forget it is the best way if you’re gonna force carb IMHO. I have a few separate chest freezers that I’ll carbonate in at lower temps as the Co2 goes into solution faster without having to crank the psi.

 

[leesmith]

Cause Hops Direct had a bunch of 2019 available and it’s not that expensive. Both the Citra and Amarillo smelled awesome. Been using leaf more these days. Using a hopback stuffed with leaf for Pilsners and IPA/Pales for the last 7 or 8 beers I think. Enjoying the results.

Never dry hopped with leaf and probably wouldn’t except with this process.

Do you find any difference between pellets and leaf as far as flavor and aroma go?

 

[Blazinlow86]

Spunding, if you like your flavor and aroma to hang around. If you want it brown and meh by the time it’s carbonated then yah, set it and forget it will achieve that end.

Is that how the commercial brewers keep there beers from becoming Brown and meh? Cheers

 

[braindead]

Had a weird thing happen the last few neaps I made this is the reason Im asking.
When poured from the keg it looks slightly oxidised, not brown to not as bright, but after a few mins in the glass it seems to change a little and become a beautiful opaque orange.

 

[couchsending]

Do you find any difference between pellets and leaf as far as flavor and aroma go?

Honestly I don’t have a ton of experience with leaf. The previous 6 batches were also with some 2018 leaf that might have lost s little luster and I only used it hotside.

That being said I do believe it’s different. Heat is created during the pelletizing process and where that process has certainly come a long ways that heat does alter the hops in some way shape or form.

I think pellets are more stable and obviously easier to use but if you can find some good leaf I do believe it’s different.

There’s a reason the most advanced craft brewery in the US still uses leaf exclusively.

 

[hopheadbanger]

After reading this thread over many days I incorporated much of this in my latest BOTTLE CONDITIONED NEIPA. We've been using a few tricks for good bottle conditioning that I'll detail below (Hint: It's purging with CO2)

Full disclosure, we fermented this in a Spike Flex+ complete with a gas manifold in a fermentation chamber, but this could easily be adapted to a carboy with carboy cap or many other cheaper fermentation vessels.

I have become a convert to couchsending's method of soft crashing before the dry-hop and only a large single dry hop. In the past, I have found hop oils would drop out with the yeast when you finally refrigerate the bottle. You can't really roll or rouse the bottle without getting a lot of sediment in your pour. With a soft crash and then another crash before bottling I got the most intense hop flavor, stable haze, and less sediment in the bottle. Any fears of missing out on biotransformation can be allayed by using a large whirlpool addition. It's not like those oils are just going to disappear.

We blow CO2 through the manifold while dryhopping through the 4" TC port on top. I bought the Flex+ specifically for this feature over other brew buckets because it allowed me to do this. In the past, we purged with CO2 while doing the same in a PET carboy. We also maintain positive pressure while cold crashing to prevent oxidation from suckback (you could use the balloon method on a carboy or low PSI from a CO2 tank)

For the past two years we've been purging the headspace in our bottles with CO2 through a hose from the regulator, but recently splurged on a Blichmann Beergun. It is way easier to use, plus allows us to pre-purge the bottle and then again on the headspace. We bottled directly from the fermenter and carbed with a Domino Dot which worked pretty well. You could also do a closed transfer to a bottling bucket if you wanted to, but it seems like an extra step where something could go wrong. I found that in the past even doing open transfers to a bottling bucket the headspace purge led to much more stable beers.

My carbonation sample after 8 days in the bottle (one day in the fridge) was insanely aromatic, juicy and smooth. Better than many commercial examples and certainly better than previous homebrewed attempts.

Moral of the story is CO2 and soft-crashing are your friends.

 

[Dgallo]

After reading this thread over many days I incorporated much of this in my latest BOTTLE CONDITIONED NEIPA. We've been using a few tricks for good bottle conditioning that I'll detail below (Hint: It's purging with CO2)

Full disclosure, we fermented this in a Spike Flex+ complete with a gas manifold in a fermentation chamber, but this could easily be adapted to a carboy with carboy cap or many other cheaper fermentation vessels.

I have become a convert to couchsending's method of soft crashing before the dry-hop and only a large single dry hop. In the past, I have found hop oils would drop out with the yeast when you finally refrigerate the bottle. You can't really roll or rouse the bottle without getting a lot of sediment in your pour. With a soft crash and then another crash before bottling I got the most intense hop flavor, stable haze, and less sediment in the bottle. Any fears of missing out on biotransformation can be allayed by using a large whirlpool addition. It's not like those oils are just going to disappear.

We blow CO2 through the manifold while dryhopping through the 4" TC port on top. I bought the Flex+ specifically for this feature over other brew buckets because it allowed me to do this. In the past, we purged with CO2 while doing the same in a PET carboy. We also maintain positive pressure while cold crashing to prevent oxidation from suckback (you could use the balloon method on a carboy or low PSI from a CO2 tank)

For the past two years we've been purging the headspace in our bottles with CO2 through a hose from the regulator, but recently splurged on a Blichmann Beergun. It is way easier to use, plus allows us to pre-purge the bottle and then again on the headspace. We bottled directly from the fermenter and carbed with a Domino Dot which worked pretty well. You could also do a closed transfer to a bottling bucket if you wanted to, but it seems like an extra step where something could go wrong. I found that in the past even doing open transfers to a bottling bucket the headspace purge led to much more stable beers.

My carbonation sample after 8 days in the bottle (one day in the fridge) was insanely aromatic, juicy and smooth. Better than many commercial examples and certainly better than previous homebrewed attempts.

Moral of the story is CO2 and soft-crashing are your friends.

Looks great. Question though, if your invested in a high quality FV why haven’t you got your self a kegging system?

 

[hopheadbanger]

Looks great. Question though, if your invested in a high quality FV why haven’t you got your self a kegging system?

We haven't kegged because my brewing partner and I live in two separate houses and for a while separate states. We both currently have no room for an extra kegerator either. Also, we often share/ cellar beer so we wouldn't give up bottles/cans entirely if we ever do start kegging. Not ruling it out eventually, but right now bottling is more convenient.

 

[Dgallo]

@Loud Brewing or anyone else who has purchased a CBD for their keg or fermenter, would you be able to post a link to where you got it? I’m currently using a fixed dip tube in my FV and think I’d rather move to a CBD

 

[Sbe2]

Anyone feel that 1318 overpowers the hops? Been using it for a while now and having some Other Half sprinkled in over the past few months, I feel like I am muting my hops.

 

[Dgallo]

Anyone feel that 1318 overpowers the hops? Been using it for a while now and having some Other Half sprinkled in over the past few months, I feel like I am muting my hops.

Someone posted a picture of one the day dreams fermentation chart and dry hop schedule that was hanging from a fermenter during their visit and they were using BSI A-18 which is London Ale III.

That being said I felt that way about kviek Hornindal the last two times I used it. Seemed to take away from the hops and both beers practically tasted the same with just subtle differences even though the hop bills were vastly different. So I get what you’re saying.