New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[SRJHops]

Looks good man...8 hop varieties huh...muddled?

Interested in thoughts about muddling... I think more than 1 hop makes sense, of course, in that hops can compliment each other... But how many is too many? I tend to use three varieties, usually citra, mosaic, and something else, like galaxy or Idaho 7. But I'm designing my next recipe and was considering using 5: citra, mosaic, Idaho 7, and a small amount of galaxy and simcoe.

On a related note, is it better not to mix dry hops? Maybe go with one type of hop for each separate dry hop? Thinking of 3 dry hop additions with two during active and one 48 hours before bottling: citra for the first, mosaic for the second, and simcoe for the last.

 

[TBryerton]

I’ve never had a Treehouse beer lose it’s haze other than Bright which is to be expected.

To your point, can date 1/25. A few days short of 5 months in the can. Julius is still hazy.

 

[flintoid]

and by "hazy" I'd say "barely." That's cleared up quite a bit.

 

[kevink]

To your point, can date 1/25. A few days short of 5 months in the can. Julius is still hazy.

Do you have any more of them? The haze of the beers I drink that have dropped "clear" like yours can be brought back by shaking vigorously and put back in the fridge for a few hours or a few days. Doing that brings back the mouthfeel and most of the flavor.

 

[TBryerton]

and by "hazy" I'd say "barely." That's cleared up quite a bit.

Yeah....looks just like a bud light. Lol. It’s a little less hazy but it’s still plenty hazy.

@kevink I’ll try that later if I get a chance

 

[kevink]

@kevink I’ll try that later if I get a chance

Awesome! Hold the can upside down when you shake it. That baby is pretty old, so it may take two shakings a few hours apart since you can only shake them so much until they completely foam up inside the can.

 

[ttuato]

Following up on this post - finally got around to trying this ferm schedule.

First observation: Fermentation stalled (1.024) probably because of that first temperature drop. I was traveling so I did not notice until day 8. I roused the yeast with the swirl method - pressure started building after 12hrs so I assume fermentation has kicked up again.

I have only applied the first dryhop at this point, gonna wait a couple of days before adding the second dryhop.

I have read to Chapter 8 of Janish book so far - lots of great info and science explanation behind what we do (be warned - very scientific language used at times). I won't provide a bunch of spoilers but I do want to point out interesting process tweaks based on scientific tests regarding yeast / fermentation schedule for Ale yeast & dry hopping for NEIPA to increase esters & reduce unwanted non-fruity hop oils or astringency from polyphenols. (This is not overtly stated in book - I pieced this together.)

• Overpitch yeast - leads to increased esters (this was new info to me - not sure I will try this though)
  
• Pitch warm (3-5 degrees higher than top of your specific yeast temp range) and continue chilling to desired temp ---- leads to increased esters and possibly greater glycerol (max glycerol production in first 18hrs) (this was new info to me- definitely gonna do this since summer)
• Ferment on the warm side of the schedule - (temp that highest on scale for your yeast - usually 72-74) - increases fruity esters (no surprise here)
• Approximately 60hrs after pitch yeast, DROP the temp to lowest temp for your specific yeast (usually 60-64*) - leads to significant increase in esters. (this was new info to me - for sure gonna do this). Hold this low temp for approximately two days and add first small dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process)
• This should have you around day 5-6. Allow the temp to freerise back to the high end of the ferm schedule for the yeast (~72-74) hold this for 5 days add another small dryhop if desired (no more than 2-3oz & make sure to do LODO process
• Day 10-11 - Crash it to around 58* hold for a day for the yeast to crash then add final dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process). After 24hr crash completely - get the beer transferred off the final dryhop in under 48hrs
• In case you didn't notice the recommendation is small dryhop charges spread across 2-3 charges, including a biotrans dryhop - this reduces astringency from polyphenols & "green" hop oils and increases extraction efficiency of the hops - in turn this makes the beer drinkable sooner. (Not necessarily new info but I am gonna try the triple dryhop instead of my usual double to see if different).

There are few other pearls that I have gathered too. The above has me the most excited so far to try with NEIPAs and some process tweaks to improve my lager brewing that I learned. I strongly recommend everyone add this book to their brewing library.

 

[InspectorJon]

I asked this question over in another thread but thought I might get a better educated, or maybe just more biased, answer here.

Is it possible to make a beer that has the flavor and mouth feel of the hazy craze beers without the haze? Personally I like the hazy juicy style so I am not disparaging it, just curious. Can we get the flavors and feel without the haze or is it a side effect of what it takes to get there?

 

[stickyfinger]

I'd like to reinforce what ttuato said in his original post. These are all ideas that were derived from various studies and comments made in the book but this general "schedule" is not in any way endorsed by Janish. In fact, in the section on fermentation, he comments that reducing esters may be desirable to emphasize the hops more. ttuato stated that he has pieced this method together, so he was totally transparent, but I don't want anyone to think that this is a schedule that was laid out as a best practices by Janish, far from it. The most important thing I derived from the book is that many people use a soft crash to drop the yeast before dry hopping. There are many other details, but that was the most striking thing that came across to me.

Following up on this post - finally got around to trying this ferm schedule.

First observation: Fermentation stalled (1.024) probably because of that first temperature drop. I was traveling so I did not notice until day 8. I roused the yeast with the swirl method - pressure started building after 12hrs so I assume fermentation has kicked up again.

I have only applied the first dryhop at this point, gonna wait a couple of days before adding the second dryhop.

 

[Dgallo]

I asked this question over in another thread but thought I might get a better educated, or maybe just more biased, answer here.

Is it possible to make a beer that has the flavor and mouth feel of the hazy craze beers without the haze? Personally I like the hazy juicy style so I am not disparaging it, just curious. Can we get the flavors and feel without the haze or is it a side effect of what it takes to get there?

Exact same mouthfeel.. no the haze (protein/polyphenol attraction) plays a decent role in the mouthfeel. But you can get a good one Without it

 

[stickyfinger]

A friend of mine and I live in New York State, and we have been drinking various amazing NEIPAs and other IPAs for several years now. He is right now in Oregon tasting several of their offerings, Rogue and others. He says that the NWIPA and WCIPA styles are also delicious, and he grew up with them as an Oregon native and a huge fan of clear IPA such as Rogue and Stone and others. They were the styles that he grew up with. He comments that they are more bitter in general but have excellent hop flavor. His final synopsis after this excursion back to the west coast clear IPAs is that the NEIPAs are better in terms of juicy overwhelming hop flavor. His only complaint is that many of the current NEIPAs don't have either enough bitterness or maybe crispness for him.

So, I'd say in answering your question that it is possible to make beers that are clear and maybe pretty good mouthfeel, but they won't be as hoppy as NEIPAs or hazy IPAs. I've made hazy WC style IPAs that I loved. They are very different from most NEIPAs, and they are different from more classic, clear Westerly IPAS. They can have excellent mouthfeel and great hoppiness, but they differ in that they maybe use Chico and have a very assertive bitterness.

I am starting to think that we will reach a point where we stop defining IPAs as hazy, WC, NW, NEIPA, etc. and just give them a name and see if people like them. some will like more bitter versions, some no bitterness, some clearer, some hazier. Some might be bitter and hazy. Some might be hazy and soft. Some might be really dank and hazy or dank and clear. It's just a huge range of characteristics.

The final comment is that I don't see how the most flavorful, hoppy beers can be really clear. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I asked this question over in another thread but thought I might get a better educated, or maybe just more biased, answer here.

Is it possible to make a beer that has the flavor and mouth feel of the hazy craze beers without the haze? Personally I like the hazy juicy style so I am not disparaging it, just curious. Can we get the flavors and feel without the haze or is it a side effect of what it takes to get there?

 

[Hannabrew]

My latest batch. Finally getting the color I've been shooting for

 

[couchsending]

I asked this question over in another thread but thought I might get a better educated, or maybe just more biased, answer here.

Is it possible to make a beer that has the flavor and mouth feel of the hazy craze beers without the haze? Personally I like the hazy juicy style so I am not disparaging it, just curious. Can we get the flavors and feel without the haze or is it a side effect of what it takes to get there?

Flavor and aroma for sure... the exact mouthfeel is rather difficult to replicate without the haze in my opinion.

 

[TBryerton]

Awesome! Hold the can upside down when you shake it. That baby is pretty old, so it may take two shakings a few hours apart since you can only shake them so much until they completely foam up inside the can.

Pictures don’t really do justice but you were correct - back to full haze for a TH beer. I have to admit, it was better than the previous 5m old Julius. Still not close to fresh, but definitely an improvement.

 

[stickyfinger]

Every single time I open a can of hoppy beer I invert it gently and roll it around. I think that should be SOP for all of these beers to resuspend the hops compounds...

 

[beervoid]

Every single time I open a can of hoppy beer I invert it gently and roll it around. I think that should be SOP for all of these beers to resuspend the hops compounds...

It really depends on the beer. If its brewed correct it will make it better but more often then not in my experience you get the stuff in suspension that doesnt do the beer justice and it turns into yeasty or bitter muddled.

 

[kevink]

My latest batch. Finally getting the color I've been shooting for

That looks nice. What's the grain bill?

 

[troglodytes]

48 hours will drop plenty of yeast, certainly not all but enough. Obviously depends on the strain you’re using. Even the pros that use Chico usually only give it 24 hours and that yeast doesn’t flocc that well at all.

So I finally got around to making my first batch using the recipe using the link in post #5803 and employing a lot of the methods I've seen through out this conversation and the "NEIPA Don'ts" thread. I particularly focused on couchsendings timing when it comes to fermentation's temps from the "Don'ts" thread and I am supremely happy with how things are going.

I can say for a fact that managing my pre-boil pH from 5.25 post mash to 5.1 resulted in a smooth bitterness I have been looking for for a long time. The soft crash after fermentation and rest down to 55F for 48 hours resulted in the clearest hydrometer sample I've ever taken, so it definitely dropped a large portion of yeast out of suspension. I brought the temp back up to 61F for dry hopping for 48 hours and now its cold crashed at 38F and should be kegging in a couple days.

I do have remaining concerns when it comes to dry hopping and oxygen ingress. I brew in a Speidel and love it. I use the stock spigot on the top for my blow off tube and a stainless ball valve on bottom with arm for transferring to keg. I've been slightly pressurizing the head space to about 1-2 psi of CO2 before crashing to avoid oxygenation. But when it comes to dry hopping I'm worried about:

1) I am hopping in a bag to avoid the absolute mess I had the last time trying to transfer to keg and clogging constantly. I dropped in the hop bag as fast as I could and then flushed the headspace with CO2 and reattached the blowoff tube. Is this enough to negate the O2 I introduced into the headspace and into the beer itself, as I'm assuming the hops will also be pulling oxygen from the outside?

2) I have had real issues with grassy flavors from highly hopped beers that were left for several days and then cold crashed with 8 oz of hops still in the beer. For this reason I wanted to remove the bag prior to the final cold crash. There is no way to do this without at least a little splashing. 8 oz of hops expand to a pretty large size so the hops bag got squeezed and splashed into the beer below as I removed it despite the large mouth of the vessel, but again, I flushed and pressurized the headspace before cold crashing down to 38F. Should I have done this step, or is the risk of oxidation from pulling the hops a bigger risk than off flavors from cold storing with the hops in batch?

Anyway, thank you to the main contributors to this thread. this batch is the best tasting highly hopped beer I've made to date. Whether it has a long shelf life, we'll find out (or maybe not because I'll drink it too fast).

 

[Dgallo]

So I finally got around to making my first batch using the recipe using the link in post #5803 and employing a lot of the methods I've seen through out this conversation and the "NEIPA Don'ts" thread. I particularly focused on couchsendings timing when it comes to fermentation's temps from the "Don'ts" thread and I am supremely happy with how things are going.

I can say for a fact that managing my pre-boil pH from 5.25 post mash to 5.1 resulted in a smooth bitterness I have been looking for for a long time. The soft crash after fermentation and rest down to 55F for 48 hours resulted in the clearest hydrometer sample I've ever taken, so it definitely dropped a large portion of yeast out of suspension. I brought the temp back up to 61F for dry hopping for 48 hours and now its cold crashed at 38F and should be kegging in a couple days.

I do have remaining concerns when it comes to dry hopping and oxygen ingress. I brew in a Speidel and love it. I use the stock spigot on the top for my blow off tube and a stainless ball valve on bottom with arm for transferring to keg. I've been slightly pressurizing the head space to about 1-2 psi of CO2 before crashing to avoid oxygenation. But when it comes to dry hopping I'm worried about:

1) I am hopping in a bag to avoid the absolute mess.

Ideally you should be dryhoppubg without a bag, then you can actually decrease the size of the total dryhop because of the increase in efficiency due to increased surface area.

 

[troglodytes]

Ideally you should be dryhoppubg without a bag, then you can actually decrease the size of the total dryhop because of the increase in efficiency due to increased surface area.

I know, but I will not go through what I went through in the past. People say that a cold crash settles the loose hops to the bottom, but I have tried multiple times and it just didn't work for me. I compromised and I used a 5 gallon bag, so it was essentially 2/3 of the size of my whole fermenters volume, so the hops definitely had room to spread instead of being all clumped together.

 

[tld6008]

I know, but I will not go through what I went through in the past. People say that a cold crash settles the loose hops to the bottom, but I have tried multiple times and it just didn't work for me. I compromised and I used a 5 gallon bag, so it was essentially 2/3 of the size of my whole fermenters volume, so the hops definitely had room to spread instead of being all clumped together.

That really seems like a lot of trouble and a good way to introduce O2 as you are rightly concerned about. Just my personal experience but if I CC the beer to 50f 99% of the time all the hops will drop to the bottom. I do use glass carboys and can see the progress. I also rock the carboy twice a day to agitate the hops which I think helps during DH as well as CC. Sometimes there will be a little bit of hops hanging around the perimeter at the surface but lowering the temp a few more degrees will cause them to drop also.
I just checked my notes and the lowest I have gone to drop hops was 45f sometimes it is just to the low 50s. I also take about 2 days to do this.

 

[SRJHops]

Question about whirlpool times and temps... The new issue of Zymurgy has a Julius clone with a 1-hour whirlpool at 108! That really flies against Janish's whirpool suggestions of 203 and 185 (which seems hot to me, but he's got the research to back it.)

Wondering where folks are for their whirlpool times and temps? I do think I need to make mine longer, but not sure about that low temp!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/tree-house-brewing-company-julius-clone/

 

[tld6008]

Question about whirlpool times and temps... The new issue of Zymurgy has a Julius clone with a 1-hour whirlpool at 108! That really flies against Janish's whirpool suggestions of 203 and 185 (which seems hot to me, but he's got the research to back it.)

Wondering where folks are for their whirlpool times and temps? I do think I need to make mine longer, but not sure about that low temp!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/tree-house-brewing-company-julius-clone/

I have made that recipe three times and the whirlpool recommendation used to be 30 minutes which I followed, I did it @ 110f. Can't say if it was a good clone never having tasted Julius but its pretty good.

 

[Loud Brewing]

I know, but I will not go through what I went through in the past. People say that a cold crash settles the loose hops to the bottom, but I have tried multiple times and it just didn't work for me. I compromised and I used a 5 gallon bag, so it was essentially 2/3 of the size of my whole fermenters volume, so the hops definitely had room to spread instead of being all clumped together.

I agree with Dgallo, comando is the way to go. Try adding a floating dip tube to your fermenter, it works excellently during transfer

 

[troglodytes]

That really seems like a lot of trouble and a good way to introduce O2 as you are rightly concerned about. Just my personal experience but if I CC the beer to 50f 99% of the time all the hops will drop to the bottom. I do use glass carboys and can see the progress. I also rock the carboy twice a day to agitate the hops which I think helps during DH as well as CC. Sometimes there will be a little bit of hops hanging around the perimeter at the surface but lowering the temp a few more degrees will cause them to drop also.
I just checked my notes and the lowest I have gone to drop hops was 45f sometimes it is just to the low 50s. I also take about 2 days to do this.

this is what I've heard multiple times. I just don't know why my situation is different. Granted last time I brewwed with loose hops I didn't cold crash at all and definitely should have because it was a mess, but the time prior to that I crashed to high 30s for 3 days and still had a half inch of sludge floating on top of the beer. It never settled. I used an auto siphon at that time and siphoned from below the sludge to bottle.

I obviously introduced O2 pulling the bag, but with a flush (7 time CO2 purge to the head space), I should have negated it to a good extent, correct?

 

[isomerization]

Question about whirlpool times and temps... The new issue of Zymurgy has a Julius clone with a 1-hour whirlpool at 108! That really flies against Janish's whirpool suggestions of 203 and 185 (which seems hot to me, but he's got the research to back it.)

Wondering where folks are for their whirlpool times and temps? I do think I need to make mine longer, but not sure about that low temp!

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/tree-house-brewing-company-julius-clone/

See here and here for more info on the backstory of this recipe and the original blogpost, respectively.

 

[MoonBrewer]

I know, but I will not go through what I went through in the past. People say that a cold crash settles the loose hops to the bottom, but I have tried multiple times and it just didn't work for me. I compromised and I used a 5 gallon bag, so it was essentially 2/3 of the size of my whole fermenters volume, so the hops definitely had room to spread instead of being all clumped together.

I have had better transfer success from my Speidel by placing a small board under the front so the fermenter tilts back maybe 15 degrees. After final cold crash and the hops/yeast have settled, carefully remove the board and return fermenter to horizontal.

First I usually pull a hydromter sample which clears any debris that collected near the valve. Then connect transfer tubing, purge, and start the pressurized transfer. This process drastically reduced hops in the transfer and have not had any clogs.

 

[troglodytes]

I tried tilting the fermenter for the first, fingers crossed tomorrow nights transfer.

 

[tld6008]

this is what I've heard multiple times. I just don't know why my situation is different. Granted last time I brewwed with loose hops I didn't cold crash at all and definitely should have because it was a mess, but the time prior to that I crashed to high 30s for 3 days and still had a half inch of sludge floating on top of the beer. It never settled. I used an auto siphon at that time and siphoned from below the sludge to bottle.

I obviously introduced O2 pulling the bag, but with a flush (7 time CO2 purge to the head space), I should have negated it to a good extent, correct?

I would say you definitely greatly reduced any O2 that entered but just opening the container to me is a risk you should keep to an absolute minimum. I have to open mine twice once for dryhop and once to insert the racking (co2 purged) cane . I push the beer out with 2 psi co2 into a co2 purged keg but not through the QD. I open the keg top and insert the hose from the cane to the bottom of the keg and put a small paper plate over the top of the keg. I transfer the beer within 5 minutes and feel good about no O2 pickup as the co2 in the keg is constantly pushed out. Once the keg is capped I purge 5 times and have never had an oxidation issue. Probably more info than you want but this works well for me.

 

[marchuk96]

I agree with Dgallo, comando is the way to go. Try adding a floating dip tube to your fermenter, it works excellently during transfer

I'll also agree...I use a Fermonster and I will also rock it a few times after dry hops have been in for a day periodically...then crash as cold as your fridge will go...mine is usually ready to rock at 24 hr's and is usually sitting around 40 degrees...never had an issue