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American IPA "Northeast" style IPA

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Dgallo

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Sounds like 15 % flaked wheat is a good choice :)
You can use it in combination with the other grains as well. I combine malted wheat and flaked wheat or oat or barely quite often. I also use malted oats with flaked wheat a lot so I can get that slickness from the oat and the head retention from the wheat.
 

R.A.I.D

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Add dry hopping in a large bag to the list. When I do that combined with hard crashing, I get no hop burn. No need to do the rest on your list.
After dry hopping in my dry hopping keg and transfering to my serving keg, my dry hop keg looks like this. I still have some hop burn.

dry hop keg.png
 

Dgallo

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What can I do to avoid hop burn while keeping aroma and flavor at a max?

Looking at this thread I have found the following tips:
- Minimize use of oat
- Use whirlfloc
- Whirlpool at 160 F (71 C) or below
- Hard crash before dry hopping
- Hard crash after dry hopping
- Let the beer mature for 2-3 weeks (3-5 weeks if I used potent hops like Galaxy, Vic Secret or Idaho 7)

Are there more tips?
Make sure you have clean wort going in the fermenter. You don’t want to transfer hops from the kettle, having these hops go through fermentation can also lead to hop burn. Unfortunately sometimes it’s just unavoidable and you just need to condition cold
 

R.A.I.D

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You can use it in combination with the other grains as well. I combine malted wheat and flaked wheat or oat or barely quite often. I also use malted oats with flaked wheat a lot so I can get that slickness from the oat and the head retention from the wheat.
I did the @anteater8 recipe with 18 % flaked oat. Nice smooth beer and great head retention. Still a bit of foam on top of the beer minutes after pouring.
But still a bit of hop burn now 14 days after dry hopping. I suspect the process more than the recipe. But I will wait longer and see how it develops.
 

secretlevel

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LOL thats what Ive always been afraid of just like the boogie man! With Voss Kviek Ive also read that the esters can be way overpowering too when under pitching and running hot. Ive read somewhere (can't remember where) that the kvieks can run "cleaner" with lower temps but haven't tested that myself yet. So when I've run Voss Kviek (Omega Liquid Yeast), Ive always pitched it at 0.75 and Ive done that on 5 beers ranging in OG from 1.065-1.075. All have had the same temp drive: pitched at 90, let free rise to 95 and then hold until done fermenting which has typically been 72hrs conservatively speaking. None have had off-flavors that I can detect. To me Voss esters are definitely "orange" which I really like, but again with my pitch rates, I don't think Im getting overpowering esters that some get with under pitching.
I think we need to think of Kveik yeast somewhat differently than ale yeast in how it works and produces esters. This study from Escrapment labs noticed that pitch rates had no impact on the amount of esters produced. Brulosophy had similar results. Another thing that I can't seem to find at the moment is one of the yeast manufacturers recommends pitching full volume of Kveik, as opposed to underpitching.

I would love to see a study on how temperatures affect ester production though.

What can I do to avoid hop burn while keeping aroma and flavor at a max?

Looking at this thread I have found the following tips:
- Minimize use of oat
- Use whirlfloc
- Whirlpool at 160 F (71 C) or below
- Hard crash before dry hopping
- Hard crash after dry hopping
- Let the beer mature for 2-3 weeks (3-5 weeks if I used potent hops like Galaxy, Vic Secret or Idaho 7)

Are there more tips?
For me, a dry hop colder than 60F and no longer than 48 hours did the trick. At this point, it's up to how big your dry hop is too. If you dry hop at 3oz/gallon, not sure if there's much you can do to avoid the burn other than take out the hops and give the beer a week or two... it always goes away with time.
 

RTE

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Anyone else see this photo on the hill farmstead Instagram? Is Edward already carbonated before they dry hop or is that just foam from the pour? I recall a discussion around that earlier. Seems like that might make sense if you wanted to naturally carb, otherwise if you dry hopped first when the yeast flocs out during the natural carbing process it could pull the hop oils with it.

LPAobSh.png
 

JohnConnor

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Anyone else see this photo on the hill farmstead Instagram? Is Edward already carbonated before they dry hop or is that just foam from the pour? I recall a discussion around that earlier. Seems like that might make sense if you wanted to naturally carb, otherwise if you dry hopped first when the yeast flocs out during the natural carbing process it could pull the hop oils with it.

View attachment 682431
Funny, I going to post this a couple days ago. A. I generate a decent amount of foam when I pour hydro samples from my brew bucket. But honestly, that was my first thought as well. That's pre-dry hop though. I can't see them dry hopping carbed beer. Have you ever tried that? B. I'm also shocked how close the color is. SNPA is listed at 11 srm. I didn't know Edward was that dark.
 

Dgallo

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Funny, I going to post this a couple days ago. A. I generate a decent amount of foam when I pour hydro samples from my brew bucket. But honestly, that was my first thought as well. That's pre-dry hop though. I can't see them dry hopping carbed beer. Have you ever tried that? B. I'm also shocked how close the color is. SNPA is listed at 11 srm. I didn't know Edward was that dark.
Anyone else see this photo on the hill farmstead Instagram? Is Edward already carbonated before they dry hop or is that just foam from the pour? I recall a discussion around that earlier. Seems like that might make sense if you wanted to naturally carb, otherwise if you dry hopped first when the yeast flocs out during the natural carbing process it could pull the hop oils with it.

View attachment 682431
It’s really tough to say from the photo. Idk if you’ve ever seen what they to pull samples from bright Tanks or fermenters but it’s called a pigtail and the beer typically comes out pretty foamy from fully carbed bright. It’s very possible that it is lighly carbonated. I had a discussion with @VirginiaHops1 the other day about this and the more I thought about it would make sense for a light carb on the beer to keep the hops in suspension a bit instead of falling quickly to the bottom
 

Noob_Brewer

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This study from Escrapment labs noticed that pitch rates had no impact on the amount of esters produced.
Thanks for the info! Looked at this link as well as a couple others from this lab. However, I wouldn't say that there is "no" impact of pitch rates on esters produced based on their analysis. 1) they did make the acknowledgement that this pitch rate study was part of a larger study (implying it could have been designed better to answer this specific research question). 2) they also acknowledge that the temps they did this pitch rate study at was 68 degrees. on a separate blog post: Crispy brewing with kveik: mind the pH gap they even said that at 15-20 degrees celsius there are "less intense esters". So obviously it would have been great to see this pitch rate study done in the 90-95 degree range where manufacturers are recommending using it. 3) Escrapment labs did not say there is "no" impact but rather stated "no easily discernible trend in overall ester production depending on pitch rate".

After looking at those bar graphs, I can't help but think that the pitch-rate contributing to ester production may be based on strain within the kviek family. If you look just at Hornidal Yeast on those ester bar graphs, it is quite clear (qualitatively) that as pitch rate increased, esters went down. For the other 4 kviek yeasts, this doesn't happen.

The PCA analysis was also interesting showing that the voss and hornidal yeasts appeared to have higher aroma intensities as pitch rate decreased but not for the other three kviek yeasts. While I need to brush up on my PCA analyses understanding, I think this again shows that we can't make blanket statements about pitch rate across the kviek yeast family though.

So I think that even with the limitations of their experiments, they at least paint the picture that pitch-rate and ester production is not uniform across the kviek yeasts. Certainly interesting to say the least. After a quick look at the brulosophy study you shared where there was no statistical difference between pitch rates - this was done with Loki which is a Voss Strain from what I understand. So, brulosophys study should be interpreted with respect to that yeast only.

Thanks for sharing this!
 

kevink

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My hydro samples are 4oz and they definitely have some foam on them because the beer shoots out of my conical pretty hard due to the head pressure. A larger vessel would have even more head pressure on it. That additional pressure combined with the fact that it's almost a fill pint of Edward makes me think that it's a reasonable amount of head in that photo for a pre-carbed beer.
 
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JohnConnor

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It’s really tough to say from the photo. Idk if you’ve ever seen what they to pull samples from bright Tanks or fermenters but it’s called a pigtail and the beer typically comes out pretty foamy from fully carbed bright. It’s very possible that it is lighly carbonated. I had a discussion with @VirginiaHops1 the other day about this and the more I thought about it would make sense for a light carb on the beer to keep the hops in suspension a bit instead of falling quickly to the bottom
That's why I like dry hopping in keg and rotating it once in the morning and once at night. I'm not sure it helps but in my head it does. I'm too fearful of geysers...
 

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Listening to a podcast today that referenced a BSG paper released earlier this winter with some interesting info on cold dry hopping. Might actually get more fruitier aspects of the hops at colder temps vs. higher. Might have to try even colder than 55.
Could you share which podcast that was?
Cheers
 

HopsAreGood

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Kegged this yesterday around 2pm and just pulled a small sample. Typically I set the temp and psi to the desired volume of co2 and then I shake the keg until it’s no longer accepting co2. This time I decided to go the set and forget route and be patient, but when pulling this sample I’m really surprised at how carbed it seems. Maybe not fully carbed up but way more than I thought it would be. Not sure why. Anyway, this beer had 2 ounces at 10, 2 ounces at 170 WP, and then a single dry hop of 8oz Citra AND 8oz strata. It’s pretty damn aromatic to say the least. Im going to leave it to condition for 10 days before pulling another sample, which will be 21 days from brew day, but I have high hopes for this one.

DF25FE48-B8DA-4193-9643-163AF25E9955.jpeg
 

Dgallo

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Kegged this yesterday around 2pm and just pulled a small sample. Typically I set the temp and psi to the desired volume of co2 and then I shake the keg until it’s no longer accepting co2. This time I decided to go the set and forget route and be patient, but when pulling this sample I’m really surprised at how carbed it seems. Maybe not fully carbed up but way more than I thought it would be. Not sure why. Anyway, this beer had 2 ounces at 10, 2 ounces at 170 WP, and then a single dry hop of 8oz Citra AND 8oz strata. It’s pretty damn aromatic to say the least. Im going to leave it to condition for 10 days before pulling another sample, which will be 21 days from brew day, but I have high hopes for this one.

View attachment 682669
16 oz dryhop in a 5 gallon batch?
 

HopsAreGood

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16 oz dryhop in a 5 gallon batch?
Yup..I know it seems crazy and I agree that sometimes more is not always better, but I keep seeing more and more breweries talking about their dry hopping rates. Tons of breweries are dry hopping at these rates and for me I like playing around.

I soft crashed prior to the dry hop then hard crashed prior to transferring to the keg. The hop burn is really not that bad at all. Or my palette is just totally destroyed from hardcore hop abuse...lol.

11 pounds 2-row, 2.5 pounds white wheat, .5 pounds carafoam, .5 pounds c-10. Also used a single pack of s-04 fermented at 63, then raised to 68 for d-rest. Pretty much in line with what many people believe the trillium street series grain bills to be.
 
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stickyfinger

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I used 16 oz dry hop in a 6G beer one time. I just dumped an entire pack of Centennial in. It was not a great beer. It had a kind of woody character I didnt like much, but it was hoppy AF! I’d be up for trying more massive dry hops if people have recommendations on hops to use.
 

Dgallo

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I used 16 oz dry hop in a 6G beer one time. I just dumped an entire pack of Centennial in. It was not a great beer. It had a kind of woody character I didnt like much, but it was hoppy AF! I’d be up for trying more massive dry hops if people have recommendations on hops to use.
Ive never came close to dryhoped that much, so I certainly will be no help ther. Thats 2-4oz more than I use in total in my NEIPA. In my triples I will use 16-18 oz tops but I know there are peole in here pushing the limit that can probably steer you in the right directions
 

HopsAreGood

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I used 16 oz dry hop in a 6G beer one time. I just dumped an entire pack of Centennial in. It was not a great beer. It had a kind of woody character I didnt like much, but it was hoppy AF! I’d be up for trying more massive dry hops if people have recommendations on hops to use.
I think it just depends on what you like. I probably wouldn’t enjoy a 16 ounce dry hop of Centennial either, but I have nothing against Centennial. Pretty much any of the modern fruity hops should work, although I’d keep in mind the high polyphenol content of some of the Australian and New Zealand varieties. I had an 8 ounce bag of Citra, and an 8 ounce bag of strata, and just dumped them right in. I let them sit for about 24 hours at 68°, then swirled and lightly Spun the fermenter for a little while in order to get some of them to drop. Gave them another 24 hours at 68 and then started to crash down to 42. I have another beer on tap right now that has a total DryHop of 6 ounces, and while it’s a nice enjoyable beer to drink, it’s nowhere near as aromatic or strong as the sample I just took before.

One thing I’ll say though is that after adding in a full pound of hops, there was quite significant offgassing and or additional fermentation that occurred. I was pretty sure it was just offgassing but obviously adding dry hops can kick off a little bit of additional fermentation, hence hop creep. The jug of sanitizer that acts as my airlock was bubbling away significantly immediately after I added the dry hops all the way until the time I crashed it down.
 

Clyde McCoy

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I think it just depends on what you like. I probably wouldn’t enjoy a 16 ounce dry hop of Centennial either, but I have nothing against Centennial. Pretty much any of the modern fruity hops should work, although I’d keep in mind the high polyphenol content of some of the Australian and New Zealand varieties. I had an 8 ounce bag of Citra, and an 8 ounce bag of strata, and just dumped them right in. I let them sit for about 24 hours at 68°, then swirled and lightly Spun the fermenter for a little while in order to get some of them to drop. Gave them another 24 hours at 68 and then started to crash down to 42. I have another beer on tap right now that has a total DryHop of 6 ounces, and while it’s a nice enjoyable beer to drink, it’s nowhere near as aromatic or strong as the sample I just took before.

One thing I’ll say though is that after adding in a full pound of hops, there was quite significant offgassing and or additional fermentation that occurred. I was pretty sure it was just offgassing but obviously adding dry hops can kick off a little bit of additional fermentation, hence hop creep. The jug of sanitizer that acts as my airlock was bubbling away significantly immediately after I added the dry hops all the way until the time I crashed it down.
A local brewery near me that does a great job with hoppy beers (the usual suspects, Citra Strata Mosaic Nelson Riwaka Simcoe etc) recently did an IIPA dry hopped with 6 lbs/bbl Galaxy (~15.5 oz/5 gal). Cost me ~$24 for a 4-pack. How does it taste? Like hop burn. VERY strong hop burn. I was surprised it was even released. I wasn't thrilled about using my refrigerator as their brite tank for 2 weeks either (it's improved over that time). Definitely has turned me off from very high dry hopping rates, at least with Galaxy.

Not trying to suggest your batch will come out this way, just sharing my experience from a brewery that usually puts out very good-excellent hoppy beers.
 

HopsAreGood

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A local brewery near me that does a great job with hoppy beers (the usual suspects, Citra Strata Mosaic Nelson Riwaka Simcoe etc) recently did an IIPA dry hopped with 6 lbs/bbl Galaxy (~15.5 oz/5 gal). Cost me ~$24 for a 4-pack. How does it taste? Like hop burn. VERY strong hop burn. I was surprised it was even released. I wasn't thrilled about using my refrigerator as their brite tank for 2 weeks either (it's improved over that time). Definitely has turned me off from very high dry hopping rates, at least with Galaxy.

Not trying to suggest your batch will come out this way, just sharing my experience from a brewery that usually puts out very good-excellent hoppy beers.
I’m no expert but I would never try using that much Galaxy..it’s known to have high polyphenol content and just be a bit more rough around the edges. While it’s definitely a darling of the hop world, A lot of people have had bad experiences with it being extremely rough when used in high amounts. Other members have talked about lowering the dosage and purposely dry hopping at colder temperatures with galaxy to avoid it’s unpleasant possibilities. There’s no doubt that when used properly it can be amazing, But it seems it can be difficult for people to find that perfect balance, and to pull out that desirable character that it has. I think dry hopping with it at 6 pounds per barrel is a sure fire way to get epic levels of unpleasant hop burn.
 

Dgallo

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I find very little return in going over about 1.2 oz/gal as far as dry hop.
I’m pretty close to this myself between 1.25-2.0oz/gal from single to triple ipas
 

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wow, took a carbonated pint of the mosaic - amarillo ipa. fantastic combo! about 1:1 (just had a tiny amount of galaxy too.) It was at 2 oz/gallon dry hop and it is amazing. i need to do a comparison b/w 1.5 and 2 oz/gal in dry hop.
 

R.A.I.D

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dry hop keg.png


I now know that one source to my hop burn problem is hop particles making it through my hop filter (shown in the picture above). The filter is useless.

Next time I will skip the filter and just use a shorter dip tube, that is not reaching into the hop sediments.
 

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Kegged this yesterday around 2pm and just pulled a small sample. Typically I set the temp and psi to the desired volume of co2 and then I shake the keg until it’s no longer accepting co2. This time I decided to go the set and forget route and be patient, but when pulling this sample I’m really surprised at how carbed it seems. Maybe not fully carbed up but way more than I thought it would be. Not sure why. Anyway, this beer had 2 ounces at 10, 2 ounces at 170 WP, and then a single dry hop of 8oz Citra AND 8oz strata. It’s pretty damn aromatic to say the least. Im going to leave it to condition for 10 days before pulling another sample, which will be 21 days from brew day, but I have high hopes for this one.

View attachment 682669
Looking good, how did it mellow out? I would expect this to have a really nice mouthfeel as well with that much of hopoils floating around.
How is the mouthfeel?
 

HopsAreGood

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Looking good, how did it mellow out? I would expect this to have a really nice mouthfeel as well with that much of hopoils floating around.
How is the mouthfeel?
I haven’t pulled another sample since that one. I’m really trying to use my will power and not start drinking it until next Monday which will be 21 days from brew day. The mouthfeel of the sample was very full and soft..chloride to sulfate on this batch was about 160-60, plus the wheat, and all the hop oils should give a very nice mouthfeel. I’ll report back.
 

pmaster

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Just to report, i've brewded this with Amarillo-Mosaic-Galaxy.
Result is a very nice beer, id rate it 4/5. Not as good as the original recipe with Citra though. Im not too good to describe it but I would say its just not as well balanced... A very nice neipa nonetheless! :)
 

The M

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Anyone replaced flaked oat and wheat with chit malt? I would be curious to hear about the results (head retention, body thickness etc.) the chit malt might change with this recipe?
 

beervoid

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Anyone replaced flaked oat and wheat with chit malt? I would be curious to hear about the results (head retention, body thickness etc.) the chit malt might change with this recipe?
I did and you dont get the body. Good haze though.
 

Frieds

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6536F1BF-D81F-4DA9-B21D-CE58287B6FFF.jpeg


So I finally got around to using Malted Oats in a brew and I don’t think I will ever got back to using flaked oats. The taste for me personally is much better and the mouthfeel is amazing.

I thought I’d do the Trillium thing and made the majority of my kettle additions Columbus. Dry hopped with Rakau, Citra & Mosaic and at only 5% abv I can’t believe I got this much flavour out of it at such a low abv. Also my first time using some acidulated malt as well so I was within the ph range I was going for.
 

crusader1612

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View attachment 683208

So I finally got around to using Malted Oats in a brew and I don’t think I will ever got back to using flaked oats. The taste for me personally is much better and the mouthfeel is amazing.

I thought I’d do the Trillium thing and made the majority of my kettle additions Columbus. Dry hopped with Rakau, Citra & Mosaic and at only 5% abv I can’t believe I got this much flavour out of it at such a low abv. Also my first time using some acidulated malt as well so I was within the ph range I was going for.
Are you able to post up your recipe?
 

Frieds

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Are you able to post up your recipe?
38% Golden Promise
30% Malted Oats
15% Vienna
7.5% Dextrose
6% Lactose
3.5% Acidulated

OG 1.054
FG 1.015

25g Columbus @ 10min
50g Columbus @ Whirlpool
25g Rakau @ Whirlpool

50g Mosaic @ Dry Hop (Day 2)
75g Rakau @ Dry Hop (Day 4)
25g Columbus @ Dry Hop (Day 4)
30g Mosaic @ Dry Hop (Post Terminal)
100g Citra @ Dry Hop (Post Terminal)

Wyeast 1318 @ 21 Degrees C
 

Eltes

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Thought I'd share this recorded webinar with Fermentis: https://www.edudip.com/en/webinar-recording/20e688bb-239f-4041-9683-4a0931acd761

The topic was "What's the best yeast for New England IPA?". They shared results from quite extensive testing of different yeasts in their portfolio for NEIPA. Seems they ate really pushing new evaluation methods to accommodate the particularities of the style.

There is some Swedish at some points, but no important information.

EDIT: Turns out the link is dead. See link to my uploaded recording a few posts below.
 
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LumberZach

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Thought I'd share this recordes webinar with Fermentis: https://www.edudip.com/en/webinar-recording/20e688bb-239f-4041-9683-4a0931acd761

The topic was "What's the best yeast for New England IPA?". They shared results from quite extensive testing of different yeasts in their portfolio for NEIPA. Seems they ate really pushing new evaluation methods to accomodate the particularities of the style.

There is some Swedish at some ponts, but no important information.
Recording not found.
 

Eltes

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Recording not found.
Sorry about that. It was working the other day.

I recorded it myself too, but not sure where I could upload it to share.

EDIT: I'm working on making it available for sharing.

EDIT 2: I uploaded my recording. See next post.
 
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