New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

Assuming that the beer gets transferred to kegs before pouring (not served from brites), how do breweries purge kegs?

They typically force carb if they aren’t kegging from unitanks or brites. Everything is profit margins so they need to flip fermenters and kegs quickly.

 

[kevink]

They typically force carb if they aren’t kegging from unitanks or brites. Everything is profit margins so they need to flip fermenters and kegs quickly.

I was wondering how they purge kegs of air, not how they carbonate. I know they typically force carb in brites before kegging.

 

[Golyo]

I will say this...... I don't know of any of the "world class" versions of NEIPA's that are not consistently better on tap than they are in the can.

How do you know the age of each beer? I am assuming only those places run them on tap that can sell a keg in 3 weeks. How do you know the age of the can? Best before date can mean anything. In my country craft breweries wary 6, 12, 18 and 24 months longevity pretty randomly on their brews, so it is hard to know for sure.

 

[Golyo]

deleted

 

[kevink]

How do you know the age of each beer? I am assuming only those places run them on tap that can sell a keg in 3 weeks. How do you know the age of the can? Best before date can mean anything. In my country craft breweries wary 6, 12, 18 and 24 months longevity pretty randomly on their brews, so it is hard to know for sure.

Most really good breweries use packaging dates, not best buy dates, and the beer sells out within a few days, so you pretty much know when it was packaged without even looking at the date. I will not even buy a beer that has a best buy date on it.

 

[Dgallo]

I was wondering how they purge kegs of air, not how they carbonate. I know they typically force carb in brites before kegging.

Gotcha. The place by me that I help out from time to time, granted they are on the small size so it may be different for larger operations, but they use the sanke coupler in reverse. Hooks the gas to the liquid port and with low pressure they purge it that way. Leaving the coupler in starsan solution until they need it.

 

[kevink]

Hooks the gas to the liquid port and with low pressure they purge it that way. Leaving the coupler in starsan solution until they need it.

So they just blow gas in under low pressure for a specific amount of time? They are not filling it with sanitizer and then pushing it out?

 

[Dgallo]

Kegs are rinsed and sterilized prior to when we fill. He may do that before I’ve ever gotten there. I can text him though

 

[Dgallo]

He’s said since all his kegs stay home and they go through them quick, he only pushes sterilizer through the kegs when he cleaning lines. Otherwise he only disassembles them, rinses and sprays down with sterilizer. So yeah just pushes air into them to purge

 

[Braufessor]

How do you know the age of each beer? I am assuming only those places run them on tap that can sell a keg in 3 weeks. How do you know the age of the can? Best before date can mean anything. In my country craft breweries wary 6, 12, 18 and 24 months longevity pretty randomly on their brews, so it is hard to know for sure.

Well.... locally, I know because they release a batch of a certain beer and some of it is on tap and some of it is in cans .....from the same batch of beer. So, both are the same batch, the same age, and I will drink them the same week. The beer on tap is always as good or better than the beer in cans. I have never..... ever..... had a can of beer and said - "wow..... that is better than the stuff they have on tap right now." Sometimes it is equally good. It is never better. And, it is usually not as good.

 

[Dgallo]

Taken down

 

[Dgallo]

Well.... locally, I know because they release a batch of a certain beer and some of it is on tap and some of it is in cans .....from the same batch of beer. So, both are the same batch, the same age, and I will drink them the same week. The beer on tap is always as good or better than the beer in cans. I have never..... ever..... had a can of beer and said - "wow..... that is better than the stuff they have on tap right now." Sometimes it is equally good. It is never better. And, it is usually not as good.

I’ve always found that cans have a solid life of 2-3 weeks. Then they start their degrade. Sometimes its simply they just floc out, especially with the increased use of lupulin powder in dryhopping. Next is oxygen. Someone mentioned something earlier about them not doing anything different caning but most canning line units have the ability to purge and then fill remaining headspace with c02, same concept as a beer gun for bottling from your keg. Helps, but again o2 does get in. But I agree with 100%. Cans can be as good if drank fresh but on tap remains king.

 

[jakturner]

So they just blow gas in under low pressure for a specific amount of time? They are not filling it with sanitizer and then pushing it out?

Most breweries do a caustic wash, then a hot water rinse, then a acid (sanitizer) rinse. All of this is under pressure and is pushed with co2, by the time the 3 rinses are done the keg is purged of O2.

 

[Dgallo]

Most breweries do a caustic wash, then a hot water rinse, then a acid (sanitizer) rinse. All of this is under pressure and is pushed with co2, by the time the 3 rinses are done the keg is purged of O2.

This seems like a much quicker process. I wonder if the guy I mention disassembles because he is a little anal or because their are so few kegs needing to be cleaned for 2.5 bbl system. I’m gunna bring this up to him though

 

[1bottlerocket]

To change the topic. I recently score 8 cans of Heady Topper and I am thinking about trying to harvest some yeast. I wanted to ask for some advice before I potentially start. Is it worth trying to do this or is it a fools errand?

The NEIPA I made a few months back had the Vermont Ale Yeast and I liked how it fermented. My brewing skills need to refining but I thought the beer has some potential.

I am going to go to kegging now and forced carbonation. I like the control you get this way. Thanks!

 

[Dgallo]

To change the topic. I recently score 8 cans of Heady Topper and I am thinking about trying to harvest some yeast. I wanted to ask for some advice before I potentially start. Is it worth trying to do this or is it a fools errand?

The NEIPA I made a few months back had the Vermont Ale Yeast and I liked how it fermented. My brewing skills need to refining but I thought the beer has some potential.

I am going to go to kegging now and forced carbonation. I like the control you get this way. Thanks!

You can certainly do it. Now is it worth your time, depends on the person? For me, I personally wouldn’t take the time to do that and just use the 1318 or Burlington ale yeast because they are rumored to be a variation. but if it’s something you really want to do, then go for it brother. I would do a two stage starter for it. Do your first one as a 1l with a og of 1.035-1.40 just to get it to wake up. Let it go for 3 days at least since you don’t know how viable those yeast cells will still be. Once that starter is done and you see the new yeast floc out. Crash it and decant it. Then do your normal 2l starter should get the cell back to a pitching amount. But again you can’t exactly calculate it like you could with a fresh bag of yeast. Good luck if you do try and let us know how it goes.

 

[Braufessor]

To change the topic. I recently score 8 cans of Heady Topper and I am thinking about trying to harvest some yeast. I wanted to ask for some advice before I potentially start. Is it worth trying to do this or is it a fools errand?

The NEIPA I made a few months back had the Vermont Ale Yeast and I liked how it fermented. My brewing skills need to refining but I thought the beer has some potential.

I am going to go to kegging now and forced carbonation. I like the control you get this way. Thanks!

When I have done it.....

cold crash can for several days at least. Take out without disturbing. Rinse of top with star san thoroughly. Have starter wort ready.... personally, I have gone .5L of 1.025 or so for the first starter. Gently pour beer in glass and leave 1-2 ounces in can. Swirl it up well and pour into starter.

In my experience, it has taken 2-3 days sometimes to really get something going. I swirl up the starter a few times a day.

The yeast can vary quite a bit depending on how many times it was used at the brewery (they use it for many generations and generation 3 or 4 is not the same as generation 15 or more for example. But, I have had a couple attempts that really gave off that "peach" ester that Heady can be know for.

Also, I have not done it in a while and they have massively scaled up over the years...... not sure if all of their practices are the same or similar enough to the past that it is worth while or if you are getting decent yeast out of the cans.

It does not hurt to try.... take the starter through a couple rounds and step up to a good size starter, run it through a low ABV blonde ale or something and see if you like what you have. If not, don't use it.

 

[1bottlerocket]

Thanks for the replies all. I had never considered the generation of the yeast coming out of the can. I always figured it was fresh pitched, first generation. Shows how much I know.

I am going to give it a go and see what happens. I will be sure to keep you all posted and take some pics.

 

[couchsending]

When I have done it.....

cold crash can for several days at least. Take out without disturbing. Rinse of top with star san thoroughly. Have starter wort ready.... personally, I have gone .5L of 1.025 or so for the first starter. Gently pour beer in glass and leave 1-2 ounces in can. Swirl it up well and pour into starter.

In my experience, it has taken 2-3 days sometimes to really get something going. I swirl up the starter a few times a day.

The yeast can vary quite a bit depending on how many times it was used at the brewery (they use it for many generations and generation 3 or 4 is not the same as generation 15 or more for example. But, I have had a couple attempts that really gave off that "peach" ester that Heady can be know for.

Also, I have not done it in a while and they have massively scaled up over the years...... not sure if all of their practices are the same or similar enough to the past that it is worth while or if you are getting decent yeast out of the cans.

It does not hurt to try.... take the starter through a couple rounds and step up to a good size starter, run it through a low ABV blonde ale or something and see if you like what you have. If not, don't use it.

They haven’t really scaled up though. Heady is still brewed on the same system in Waterbury. Even in Stowe, where everything else is brewed, the brewhouse might be bigger (and not even that much bigger) but I believe just like with Heady they don’t do multiple brews into one FV. They still do one brew per FV and then combine 4 into one bright.

Issue with harvesting from most of their beers is so many of them are high ABV so they’re not great for harvesting. I built some up from a few cans of Holy Cow which is one of their lower ABV canned offerings so most likely it was an early generation and it was still a rather lackluster ferment. Even with the recommend fermentation profile for that yeast.

If you really want to use something similar to Conan I’d recommend the Yeast Bay variation. In general it’s a very finicky yeast that requires some special handling and other than the peach ester, that you may or may not get, isn’t anything special.

 

[TxBigHops]

They haven’t really scaled up though. Heady is still brewed on the same system in Waterbury. Even in Stowe, where everything else is brewed, the brewhouse might be bigger (and not even that much bigger) but I believe just like with Heady they don’t do multiple brews into one FV. They still do one brew per FV and then combine 4 into one bright.

Issue with harvesting from most of their beers is so many of them are high ABV so they’re not great for harvesting. I built some up from a few cans of Holy Cow which is one of their lower ABV canned offerings so most likely it was an early generation and it was still a rather lackluster ferment. Even with the recommend fermentation profile for that yeast.

If you really want to use something similar to Conan I’d recommend the Yeast Bay variation. In general it’s a very finicky yeast that requires some special handling and other than the peach ester, that you may or may not get, isn’t anything special.

Is Imperial Barbarian similar to the Yeast Bay? That's what my LHBS carries so was planning on trying it in my next NEIPA.

 

[stickyfinger]

This looks like it might be a useful product - at least worth trying once available.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/newsletters/ElectricBrewery_Newsletter_Dec_18_2018.shtm

 

[couchsending]

Is Imperial Barbarian similar to the Yeast Bay? That's what my LHBS carries so was planning on trying it in my next NEIPA.

They’re supposed to be the same strain yes..

 

[milldoggy]

This looks like it might be a useful product - at least worth trying once available.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/newsletters/ElectricBrewery_Newsletter_Dec_18_2018.shtm

I use the hopstopper2 in my bk and love it, used a hop taco for years and the 2.0 kills it. Definitely buying the keg version. Wonder if I can install it in my conical pickup tube

 

[WBCo]

Wonder if I can install it in my conical pickup tube

I'd def prefer to use this in my conical over a keg just because of how easy it would be to install and remove. I use a Spike CF10, and the dip tube is quite a bit larger than those found in corny kegs which may pose a problem with fitting.

 

[ThePaleAleIndian]

This looks like it might be a useful product - at least worth trying once available.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/newsletters/ElectricBrewery_Newsletter_Dec_18_2018.shtm

I use something similar, just homemade. It's a 300 micron stainless mesh dry hopper, but I drilled a 7/16 hole in it and installed what looks like the same silicone grommet for the dip tube to seal to. The dry hopper I used has mesh under the lid as well. Works great!

The reason for the two long dip tubes in the pic is that I like to transfer into the keg through the gas post, so any debris ends up outside the mesh. Then after the transfer, swap back to the gas dip tube and purge the headspace real quick.

 

[milldoggy]

I use something similar, just homemade. It's a 300 micron stainless mesh dry hopper, but I drilled a 7/16 hole in it and installed what looks like the same silicone grommet for the dip tube to seal to. The dry hopper I used has mesh under the lid as well. Works great!

The reason for the two long dip tubes in the pic is that I like to transfer into the keg through the gas post, so any debris ends up outside the mesh. Then after the transfer, swap back to the gas dip tube and purge the headspace real quick. View attachment 603085

I do the same, but love the stopper design. My version for my keggle has a 5/8 hole and grommet. Bet Kal and the stopper team can make a conical one. Anyone remember kals hbt name so we can tag him?

 

[milldoggy]

Found him @kal any plans for a conical dip tube hop stopper 2.0 version

 

[SRJHops]

Has anyone tried to brew a No-Boil NEIPA? I'd be interested in tips/suggestions.

I've seen some DME recipes, but I'd have to believe it would work with all-grain too.

My plan is to heat the wort to 175 and just whirlpool the hops for 20-30 minutes, skipping the boil completely -- since there are no hops added during the boil. (I'll use 2-row for the base instead of my regular pilsner to help keep the DMS away.)

In addition to wanting to shorten my brew day, I have trouble when I move inside and use my stovetop -- it can't boil more than about 3 gallons and that's on the biggest burner. But I wonder if I could get two separate kettles going with 3 gallons each... I bet I could get them up to 175.

The stovetop works in a pinch. I recently did a partial mash BIAB with 1/2 extract and it turned out pretty good, but it was essentially a new recipe based on my all-grain NEIPA.

I almost had that all-grain recipe dialed in, and would like to get back to working on it this winter. I just need to figure out how to do full all-grain on my 1970's-era coil stovetop... Maybe no-boil is the answer?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

...Maybe no-boil is the answer?

It's on my list to try. Created a thread just for No-Boils. Come check it out join in on the conversation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/660329/

 

[Dgallo]

Has anyone tried to brew a No-Boil NEIPA? I'd be interested in tips/suggestions.

I've seen some DME recipes, but I'd have to believe it would work with all-grain too.

My plan is to heat the wort to 175 and just whirlpool the hops for 20-30 minutes, skipping the boil completely -- since there are no hops added during the boil. (I'll use 2-row for the base instead of my regular pilsner to help keep the DMS away.)

In addition to wanting to shorten my brew day, I have trouble when I move inside and use my stovetop -- it can't boil more than about 3 gallons and that's on the biggest burner. But I wonder if I could get two separate kettles going with 3 gallons each... I bet I could get them up to 175.

The stovetop works in a pinch. I recently did a partial mash BIAB with 1/2 extract and it turned out pretty good, but it was essentially a new recipe based on my all-grain NEIPA.

I almost had that all-grain recipe dialed in, and would like to get back to working on it this winter. I just need to figure out how to do full all-grain on my 1970's-era coil stovetop... Maybe no-boil is the answer?

It can certainly be done. I would still boil the wort for 5/10 minutes. I know you can pasteurize above 175 but I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that. With extract brewing it should be easy to accomplish a no boil. If you’re doing 5gal all grain, the only problem I would foresee tanking in your efficiency, especially if your shoot for 1.060 or better. You would probably have to single batch mash w/o a sparge.