New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Braufessor]

So as a follow up to this...I redid the hop schedule in Brewer's Friend and simplified to one flameout addition and one whirlpool addition. Their site suggests that for a typical whirlpool hopping you get 10% utilization. I put in a 30 minute whirlpool at 175 degrees F, which added about 90 IBUs to the beer, for a total of 119 IBUs. Does this seem right? Seems like a lot. I thought I could start with a low FWH of 33 IBUs, but would get up into the 50's with the whirlpool hops, not 119 IBUs...

If you are only adding 30 IBU's for bitter addition, and everything else is flameout or after - you won't have anywhere close to 119 IBU's - no matter what the software says. And, it won't be perceived as bitter either.

There was a really good interview on..... Experimental Brewing Podcast I think ...... where they did some actually testing on IBU's and compared to projected.... the actual IBU's are all over the place. As far as an accurate unit of measure - the IBU is basically worthless. Its only real value is it allows you to have a consistency from batch to batch. In essence - even though the accuracy of the measurement is wrong...... if you always use the same inaccurate unit of measure, it ends up being useful in constructing recipe's.

Brew this one the way you are planning (it won't be 100 IBU's). Then, evaluate your beer and determine where it falls as far as your preferences. Then adjust from there on a future batch (more or less hops in boil for instance.).

 

[Braufessor]

Not usually a fan of high ABV..... but this is really great. 9.3%.

 

[berndawg84]

If you are only adding 30 IBU's for bitter addition, and everything else is flameout or after - you won't have anywhere close to 119 IBU's - no matter what the software says. And, it won't be perceived as bitter either.

There was a really good interview on..... Experimental Brewing Podcast I think ...... where they did some actually testing on IBU's and compared to projected.... the actual IBU's are all over the place. As far as an accurate unit of measure - the IBU is basically worthless. Its only real value is it allows you to have a consistency from batch to batch. In essence - even though the accuracy of the measurement is wrong...... if you always use the same inaccurate unit of measure, it ends up being useful in constructing recipe's.

Brew this one the way you are planning (it won't be 100 IBU's). Then, evaluate your beer and determine where it falls as far as your preferences. Then adjust from there on a future batch (more or less hops in boil for instance.).

Fair enough. I may increase my bittering addition to get more like 50 IBUs, 30 is a bit low. Interestingly, the WeldWerks recipe I posted does about 0.6 oz of Citra, Mosaic and El Dorado as a FWH, and then flameout and whirlpool hops, and they calculate their IBU as 55. But I know that IBU measurement is tricky stuff. Thanks for the input. On an unrelated note, I am bottling this beer (no keg setup yet)...according to this thread bottled NEIPAs often turn to brown sludge after a couple weeks. Going to brew it this weekend anyway, we'll see what happens I guess!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597557&page=12

 

[Shenanigans]

Fair enough. I may increase my bittering addition to get more like 50 IBUs, 30 is a bit low. Interestingly, the WeldWerks recipe I posted does about 0.6 oz of Citra, Mosaic and El Dorado as a FWH, and then flameout and whirlpool hops, and they calculate their IBU as 55. But I know that IBU measurement is tricky stuff. Thanks for the input. On an unrelated note, I am bottling this beer (no keg setup yet)...according to this thread bottled NEIPAs often turn to brown sludge after a couple weeks. Going to brew it this weekend anyway, we'll see what happens I guess!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597557&page=12

Cool let us know what happens on the bottling front.
Want to brew one of these myself but will probably reduce it to 3 gallons to make sure I drink up before it goes down hill in the bottle.
Still no conclusive evidence but I will be using 1318 which possibly stays fresher in the bottle than using Conan.

 

[Jmash]

Not usually a fan of high ABV..... but this is really great. 9.3%.

My son drank my last Heavy Mettle last weekend. I may move his stuff out to the sidewalk. I wish they made it more often. It's my favorite from Trillium

 

[Braufessor]

I am bottling this beer (no keg setup yet)...according to this thread bottled NEIPAs often turn to brown sludge after a couple weeks. Going to brew it this weekend anyway, we'll see what happens I guess!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=597557&page=12

Oh.... I don't know about that. I have had some good bottle versions of this. I agree 100% that you want to bring your "A" game with your bottling process to avoid oxygen as much as possible.... but, I think it can be done. I know it can be done. I have enjoyed several that folks have sent me that were bottled.

Here is the link to the podcast I mentioned... It was a good interview.
https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/episode-32-ibu-lie

 

[olotti]

So as a follow up to this...I redid the hop schedule in Brewer's Friend and simplified to one flameout addition and one whirlpool addition. Their site suggests that for a typical whirlpool hopping you get 10% utilization. I put in a 30 minute whirlpool at 175 degrees F, which added about 90 IBUs to the beer, for a total of 119 IBUs. Does this seem right? Seems like a lot. I thought I could start with a low FWH of 33 IBUs, but would get up into the 50's with the whirlpool hops, not 119 IBUs...

3 gallon batch
Original Gravity:

1.066
Final Gravity:

1.016
ABV (standard):

6.54%

IBU (tinseth):

119.15

SRM (morey):

4.65

Fermentables

Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
6.3 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 74.4%
0.8 lb Flaked Wheat 34 2 9.5%
0.8 lb Flaked Oats 33 2.2 9.5%
9 oz American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) 33 1.8 6.6%
8.46 lb Total


Hops

Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
0.2 oz Citra Pellet 11 First Wort 9.33
0.2 oz Mosaic Pellet 12.5 First Wort 10.6
0.2 oz Vic Secret Pellet 15 First Wort 12.72
0.1 oz Citra Pellet 11 Boil 0 min
0.1 oz Mosaic Pellet 12.5 Boil 0 min
0.1 oz Vic Secret Pellet 15 Boil 0 min
0.9 oz Citra Pellet 11 Whirlpool at 175°F 30 min 24.72
0.9 oz Mosaic Pellet 12.5 Whirlpool at 175°F 30 min 28.09
0.9 oz Vic Secret Pellet 15 Whirlpool at 175°F 30 min 33.71
0.5 oz Citra Pellet 11 Dry Hop 4 days
0.5 oz Mosaic Pellet 12.5 Dry Hop 4 days
0.5 oz Vic Secret Pellet 15 Dry Hop 4 days
0.33 oz Citra Pellet 11 Dry Hop 8 days
0.65 oz Mosaic Pellet 12.5 Dry Hop 8 days
0.33 oz Vic Secret Pellet 15 Dry Hop 8 days

Your whirlpool at 175 will not yield 90 ibus. As I understand from readings here and other places that alpha isomerization to the point of adding ibus cuts off at around 180-185 deg so your only really extracting aroma and the flavor oils at that point as the temp is not hot enough for the oils to turn into buttering agents. I do the same technique as you mention, I boil for an hour then cut flame, let wort cool to 175 then add my hopstand and I'll let that go for 30-60 min depending on time. My beers are mostly made this way and I do this for even lower abv pale ales and IPAs and there's no bitterness, supreme hoppiness yes to the point of just saturation but it leaves the palate quickly and not like a bitter tongue puckering hop bomb which is what I associate being a bitter beer.

 

[olotti]

Oh.... I don't know about that. I have had some good bottle versions of this. I agree 100% that you want to bring your "A" game with your bottling process to avoid oxygen as much as possible.... but, I think it can be done. I know it can be done. I have enjoyed several that folks have sent me that were bottled.

Here is the link to the podcast I mentioned... It was a good interview.
https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/episode-32-ibu-lie

I hope mine have been some of them. Lol

 

[Hannabrew]

Unfortunately, my beer seems to have lost it's way.

It was great out of the fermenter...super juicy and flavorful. I closed transferred to a CO2 purged keg, added my dry hops with CO2 on and purged 6 times at 30PSI after closing the lid. I kept it at room temp for 5 days and then moved it to the kegerator at 36F to cool and get ready to serve.

The first couple of pints were excellent last Tuesday. Since then it's been a quick decline. It doesn't have much aroma anymore, it's not really juice but rather just cloudy, and it tastes rather thin. I shook the keg a bit and got some aroma back temporarily but I'm perplexed...what could have gone wrong?

My only conclusion is that this Imperial Juice yeast floculates too much and the yeast took all the hop aroma/flavor with them to the bottom of the keg. The fact that I get more aroma when I swirl the keg seems to support that theory.

Any other ideas?

 

[olotti]

Unfortunately, my beer seems to have lost it's way.

It was great out of the fermenter...super juicy and flavorful. I closed transferred to a CO2 purged keg, added my dry hops with CO2 on and purged 6 times at 30PSI after closing the lid. I kept it at room temp for 5 days and then moved it to the kegerator at 36F to cool and get ready to serve.

The first couple of pints were excellent last Tuesday. Since then it's been a quick decline. It doesn't have much aroma anymore, it's not really juice but rather just cloudy, and it tastes rather thin. I shook the keg a bit and got some aroma back temporarily but I'm perplexed...what could have gone wrong?

My only conclusion is that this Imperial Juice yeast floculates too much and the yeast took all the hop aroma/flavor with them to the bottom of the keg. The fact that I get more aroma when I swirl the keg seems to support that theory.

Any other ideas?

I don't keg but seems your process is in line with what other people do here so there's no leak in the line anywhere otherwise yeah maybe that imperial yeast just drops when cooled and like you say when u agitate it then it's good but it drops out again but yeast is not what we're after in a neipa it's the hops and if you hop it heavily I would think that would stay in suspension. Or maybe you didn't use enough oats, barley or wheat or a big enough dry hop to where you could compensate for that hop loss when the keg is chilled. There's an answer in there somewhere now it's figuring out where and it maybe in the grain bill itself maybe.

 

[Braufessor]

I hope mine have been some of them. Lol

Absolutely

 

[marjen]

So I am thinking about making my changes to my hop schedule. Currently this is what I have been doing for a 5 gallon batch.

@60 mins .25 oz
@10 mins .75 oz
@flameout 2oz
@180 deg whirlpool for 30 mins 3 oz of hops
@pitch 2 oz hops
@day 3 post pitch 8 oz hops

Now I will say the last 2 beers using this method have been outstanding. But I am wondering if I could get the same results either combining the flameout/whirlpool together or completely removing those and just doing it all post pitch? Any thoughts on this? Not that its a big deal but wondering if 6 different hop additions are really all providing something that different.

 

[anteater8]

Heading to the LHBS today to pick up grain for my 8th and 9th batches of this beer. One will be 100% Azacca, the other 100% Galaxy. Will post notes once they're done, along with my favorite hop combo rankings.

 

[crusader1612]

Heading to the LHBS today to pick up grain for my 8th and 9th batches of this beer. One will be 100% Azacca, the other 100% Galaxy. Will post notes once they're done, along with my favorite hop combo rankings.

you could blend as well.

 

[anteater8]

you could blend as well.

Yeah trust me, I'm tempted. I've got heaps of Citra, Galaxy, Equinox, Simcoe, Amarillo, Azacca, Motueka, Columbus and El Dorado chilling in the freezer. There are dozens of combos I want to try. But I feel like I've been learning a lot about the hop from using a single hop in this beer and want to keep it up for a few more iterations so I can (hopefully) detect individual hop contributions to blends better in the future.

 

[golfgod04]

Yeah trust me, I'm tempted. I've got heaps of Citra, Galaxy, Equinox, Simcoe, Amarillo, Azacca, Motueka, Columbus and El Dorado chilling in the freezer. There are dozens of combos I want to try. But I feel like I've been learning a lot about the hop from using a single hop in this beer and want to keep it up for a few more iterations so I can (hopefully) detect individual hop contributions to blends better in the future.

im jealous, thats a great selection of hops! you could brew every weekend for awhile with all those combos!

 

[crusader1612]

Yeah trust me, I'm tempted. I've got heaps of Citra, Galaxy, Equinox, Simcoe, Amarillo, Azacca, Motueka, Columbus and El Dorado chilling in the freezer. There are dozens of combos I want to try. But I feel like I've been learning a lot about the hop from using a single hop in this beer and want to keep it up for a few more iterations so I can (hopefully) detect individual hop contributions to blends better in the future.

Understandabel - and with such a plethora of hops sitting around i dont blame you.

but what i mean is, brew your beers as normal, and at kegging, rack a gallon or so of each beer into a bucket, and bottle or kegg, that 2 gallons. then you've got three beers.
you can taste your single hops each, then see how each hops plays together. (even half a gallon of each or less)

 

[isomerization]

Understandabel - and with such a plethora of hops sitting around i dont blame you.

but what i mean is, brew your beers as normal, and at kegging, rack a gallon or so of each beer into a bucket, and bottle or kegg, that 2 gallons. then you've got three beers.
you can taste your single hops each, then see how each hops plays together. (even half a gallon of each or less)

You could probably even blend in the glass out of the kegerator too, would be cool to test different ratios.

 

[RevKev]

You could probably even blend in the glass out of the kegerator too, would be cool to test different ratios.

Get the graduated cylinders and tasting glasses out!!!

 

[MaCheFai]

Hey guys, for those of you who've tried this recipe, does this yield a beer that's more orange juicy like Julius, or more lemon/grapefruity? I was hoping to find a recipe that has more of the sweet side of citrus rather than tart.

The color and reviews have all been great, so I'm eager to try, just curious to get a better understanding of the flavor profile first.

After having read thru all of these pages, don't recall seeing a review or summary of results from the recipe from any other brewers?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I missed a lot of chatter on this thread the last several days just wanted to add my 2 cents for what I did read...

I started dividing my whirlpool hops into 2. 1st goes in at 175, 2nd at 147. Lupulin oils are volatile above 147. At the end of cooling, i have a real nice oil sheen on the wort. These were my most flavorful beers.

Im now working on equipment modifications to limit oxygen into my transfers. Doing a simple ipa to test, but recipe here are next.

 

[anteater8]

You could probably even blend in the glass out of the kegerator too, would be cool to test different ratios.

This is exactly what I was thinking. I'll have both on tap at the same time (assuming the first lasts more than 1 week). Galaxy/Azacca sounds like a good combo to me.

 

[olotti]

I missed a lot of chatter on this thread the last several days just wanted to add my 2 cents for what I did read...

I started dividing my whirlpool hops into 2. 1st goes in at 175, 2nd at 147. Lupulin oils are volatile above 147. At the end of cooling, i have a real nice oil sheen on the wort. These were my most flavorful beers.

Im now working on equipment modifications to limit oxygen into my transfers. Doing a simple ipa to test, but recipe here are next.

Hmm this is interesting. I always thought I'd read hop oils weren't isomerized above 175 maybe that's why my beers like this always have just a touch of bite to them. I usually chill to 175 then add my hopstand for 45-60 min which by then it's cooled to about 150-155 then I pull the hop spider and chill. Next time I'll try adding them maybe at 155 and letting it steep from there.

 

[Tarpon87]

Just got stuff in for the next batch, using 81% red x malt as base, a touch of honey malt and even parts flaked oats and wheat for the rest. Belma, El Dorado and huell melon hops for aroma and flavor. Brewing in 2 weeks.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Try agian.,

Myrcene*– (147 F/63.9 C boil point) – The largest of the hop oils, making up 40-60% of the hop oil content in many American varieties (Cascade has 50-60%), though most noble hops are low in myrcene (Saaz: 5-13%). Mercene boils off readily, and can even volatilize in a high temperature steep (147F), so you will lose it if you boil it. It has a herbal note that can be described as green, balsamic, hoppy in small quantities. It also has a slight piney/citrus flavor. As a result of its low boiling point, it is present in much higher quantities in dry hopped or steep-hopped beers. It tends to provide a “green hop” or fresh hop aroma when used in dry hopping.

 

[Nomofett]

Hmm this is interesting. I always thought I'd read hop oils weren't isomerized above 175 maybe that's why my beers like this always have just a touch of bite to them. I usually chill to 175 then add my hopstand for 45-60 min which by then it's cooled to about 150-155 then I pull the hop spider and chill. Next time I'll try adding them maybe at 155 and letting it steep from there.

I think that's still correct, I think they are isomerized at that temp., so that’s when the bitterness is activated for lack of a better term (Mainly, I’ve read some studies recently about bitterness still coming from dry hopping because of.. well, other stuff, I don’t know science and I forget terms easily) I think that the bitterness comes from acids, and the flavor comes from oils. But I think the temp that the other post mentioned was that the oils become volatile and go away.
The boiling point is basically when the oils turn to steam and float away (again, I don’t know science so I am probably saying all of this wrong) So up to the boiling point you will get flavor from the hops, between the boiling point and the isomerization temp. you are losing oils but not adding bitterness (or adding it in very small amounts, but they always add very small amounts) and above isomerization you are adding pretty much only bitterness.
Like I said though, I know nothing of science so I could be totally off, and if I am, I’m sure someone will correct me and I can learn something new!

 

[bigmunchez]

That could be really good. Curious to hear how that turns out - I might give that a try soon

So, I brewed my first attempt at this style. Just kegged and carbonated and I have to say, I'm impressed.
Living in Perth, we don't get to try many examples of this style, certainly not fresh ones, but I tried a lot of the San Francisco examples when I was there a couple of weeks ago.
A few variations (we can't get honey malt), I used a 1:1:1 blend of citra mosaic and galaxy.

I actually used the WY2565 kolsch strain and I'm really happy with how its come out. Super saturated hop flavour, looks really good.

 

[Braufessor]

So, I brewed my first attempt at this style. Just kegged and carbonated and I have to say, I'm impressed.
Living in Perth, we don't get to try many examples of this style, certainly not fresh ones, but I tried a lot of the San Francisco examples when I was there a couple of weeks ago.
A few variations (we can't get honey malt), I used a 1:1:1 blend of citra mosaic and galaxy.

I actually used the WY2565 kolsch strain and I'm really happy with how its come out. Super saturated hop flavour, looks really good.

I could see a Kolsch strain being a great choice for beers like this. Some of them can be very powdery type yeasts that hang around. I actually brewed a kolsch a couple months ago, and for whatever reason, I just cannot get it to drop clear. I used 1007 German Ale yeast on it. Makes me curious now as to how that might work in this beer.
Beer looks awesome

 

[bigmunchez]

I always struggle get my kolsches to drop bright, especially with 2565 which is why I figured I'd try to 'embrace the haze'. Also, I find this strain tends to give a soft mouthfeel in a kolsch while there is still some yeast haze which also complements the style.