New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[droder1]

A few thoughts:

1) Don't dryhop in the keg - it always has led to very murky beer for me if you don't let it sit a pretty long time - try just doing it all in the primary and see if you like it.

2) Try using different varieties of hops once in awhile with this same method. Some don't give as much of that astringent, dry character when they are suspended in the beer. Simcoe, for example, doesn't do that as much as Citra in my experience. What hops did you use by the way? Some hops give a very strong bitterness in dryhop and others don't. The bitterness and astringency/drying are two distinct things in my experience. A recent Centennial IPA I did was super bitter after dryhop, first time I've gotten such a bitter dry hop beer!

3) Let it rest very cold for a few more weeks. It will start to clear. There will be a layer of yeast and hops forming on the bottom of your keg. If you don't suck that up with your setup, you will be good to go. If you keep oxygen out of your process pretty well on the cold side, the beer should taste really hoppy and great for at least 4-6 weeks in the keg, maybe longer.

4) It might help to try a different yeast. I have been toying with using WLP002 to see if it drops out more quickly and still leaves good hop character.

5) I bet the Clear Beer Draught would work well. I'm sure the beer at the top of your keg is much less yeast/hop-particle-laden than the beer at the bottom.

I am big on DH'ing in the key as I spund valve and keep the last few days worth of CO2 in the keg. I have considered pushing to a serving keg but i dont like the idea of yet another opportunity for oxygen pickup and figure i'll just end up pushing a bunch of the junk anyways since I am pulling it up with the kegerator anyways.

1318 is my go to yeast, i am sticking with it (not to be mistaken with me not being appreciative of your thoughts, but 1318 is a winner in my book, I can adjust other variables to resolve). This was columbus, citra, galaxy, in ascending order.

 

[kevink]

There is a reason i DH loose, its better.

Minty is with me.

That's why you do it loose in the primary. I'm partially with you.

 

[mintyice]

Wow!! That looks fantastic!! Would you mind throwing out the recipe for that one?!

6 gal 1.058 OG 1.016FG 5.5%

74.1% 10 lbs CMC pale
18.5% 2.5 lbs Flaked oats
3.7%

​

0.5 lbs whole wheat flour
3.7%

​

0.5 lbs lactose

0.25 oz 13.2%AA Columbus @ 60mins
1.5oz Citra 13.4% AA @ 5mins
1.5oz Citra 13.4% AA @ 185F 20min whirlpool
5oz Citra dry hop 48 hours
10oz Reanimator Rwanda Kanza 'dry bean' 48 hours

 

[leesmith]

Yeah, I'll edit this post with it when I get hop.



FYI: everyone dry hopping in bags, you are better off dry hopping loose! Clear beer draught system is amazing for this. Also supports the idea that loose dry hops add IBU.

http://www.hopsteiner.de/fileadmin/...Method_-_W._Mitter__S._Cocuzza__BBII_2013.pdf


"In the case of linalool, the use of pellets in loose form gives almost 50 per cent more extraction efficiency and, consequently, the likelihood
of a beer with a more intense aroma."

"Nevertheless, the method of hop addition appears to have a clear impact. If pellets are added to the beer in a finely woven, mesh-like container, then the solubility of alpha acid is particularly restricted. Similarly the linalool concentration only attains a considerably lower level."

I read the article quickly but do they say anything about agitating the hops if you bag them? I dry hop at room temp in the keg for 2 to 3 days and shake the heck out of it every so often. The hop flavor and aroma I get is pretty intense. On par with commercial NEIPA's.

Ed Coffey over at Ales of the Riverwards uses a bag to dry hop along with agitating it every now and then. He says he has no trouble getting the aroma and flavor he wants. http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2015/09/how-i-dry-hop-maximizing-aromas-on.html

 

[gotbags-10]

Has anyone heard of the new yeast from imperial organic coming out? It's called Juice and is specific for east coast IPA's. It's starting to ship this week

 

[McTwidget]

I still think I'd rather just go with my 2 oz/gallon dry-hop-only in the interest of saving time during brew day. I had forgotten about that study though.

What are you referring to with the shaking vs pure O2? Pure O2 may destroy some of the hopstand character? FWIW, I stopped using oxygen a long time ago and still get the attenuation I like. I just shake my carboys and pitch a large amount of very healthy yeast. Saves time.

I was thinking about the logic of what happens to the volatile hop oils you just spent 30 to 60 mins infusing during the hopstand if you shake the carboy violently for oxygenation (or if you simply let the wort splash into the carboy). I was thinking you stand a better chance of keeping them in solution if you transfer from the bottom with minimal splashing and then inject pure oxygen into solution at a rate that doesn't let the bubbles break the surface.

McT

 

[stickyfinger]

I was thinking about the logic of what happens to the volatile hop oils you just spent 30 to 60 mins infusing during the hopstand if you shake the carboy violently for oxygenation (or if you simply let the wort splash into the carboy). I was thinking you stand a better chance of keeping them in solution if you transfer from the bottom with minimal splashing and then inject pure oxygen into solution at a rate that doesn't let the bubbles break the surface.

McT

maybe adding yeast the carboy before adding O2 is more important than anything. makes sense to me. i've seen people splash and shake before adding yeast, and that seems like a bad idea to me.

 

[stickyfinger]

Has anyone heard of the new yeast from imperial organic coming out? It's called Juice and is specific for east coast IPA's. It's starting to ship this week

seen some chatter about it. i wonder where Imperial is coming up with all of these strains?!

House could be like WLP007?

Barbarian could be like other Conan strains

Flagship could be like WLP001?

Pub MUST be WLP002-like?

Darkness could be like the WLP095, could be a lot of others though.

Wondering if Independence is WY1318-like?

Citrus?!

Now Juice?!

 

[scottsor]

Has anyone heard of the new yeast from imperial organic coming out? It's called Juice and is specific for east coast IPA's. It's starting to ship this week

Yea I'm looking forward to giving it a try. According to a Facebook post by them it's their equivalent of 1318

 

[Braufessor]

In regard to the use of 99.9% CO2 to carbonate introducing enough oxygen to harm your beer, and losing hop oils out of solution by oxygenating or allowing wort to fall into the fermenter and splash, and other things of that nature..... I have to be honest, I don't believe for 1 second that 99% of beer drinkers could distinguish a variable like that in a finished beer.

Don't get me wrong, I try to be precise and detail oriented. I am all about going out of my way through process and practice to produce consistent and tasty beer. I even go far enough to get called out on paying attention to details that may or may not make a difference in the finished product (water chemistry, pH, mash temps, grain bill %........ and other "details"). I love to experiment and test things out, and I try as best I can to reserve judgement on saying something makes a difference until I really check it out.

Perhaps I am wrong on these things.... and, I may even make an attempt at some point to test them out for myself. But, I would really have to see some head to head, blind tasting of beer suffering because it was carbonated with CO2 instead of primed and naturally carbed. Or, that someone could tell the difference in hoppiness of beer that "splashed" going into the fermenter. I would be surprised.

On a recent episode of Experimental Homebrewing, I think Denny was talking about possibly doing a test of beer that was transferred to a CO2 purged keg (star san pushed out) and a keg that was simply filled - no purging at all. I would never fill an unpurged keg.... so, that might be an interesting starting point to see what those tasters find in a situation like that.

I think there is (with anything) a point of diminishing returns. I would really have to experience this myself to accept that this level of detail matters.

In that vein..... I am hoping to sample my 3 IPA's with different water profiles tomorrow night while I am brewing. As someone who very much believes in the importance of water chemistry, I have to say, my initial tastings tell me I am going to have a hard time telling the difference between them. I sent some out to some others as well.... will be curious as to their thoughts on them.

If there are any LoDO brewers who really apply all (or as much as possible) of the procedures to eliminate O2..... if you are interested in a beer trade, let me know. I would love to sample some brew that went through this process. Would gladly send some homebrew/local commercial beer your way in return. I would be on board for the attention to detail if it is warranted.

 

[schematix]

In regard to the use of 99.9% CO2 to carbonate introducing enough oxygen to harm your beer, and losing hop oils out of solution by oxygenating or allowing wort to fall into the fermenter and splash, and other things of that nature..... I have to be honest, I don't believe for 1 second that 99% of beer drinkers could distinguish a variable like that in a finished beer.

You're probably right... but we're definitely the 1% here. It's also one of those things that until you know the taste, you just don't know. Now that i know what oxidized hops taste like, i can spot it easily. Same for the various esters, phenolics, wine flavors, etc. I can't drink coors light any more because i've been trained to not like diacetyl.

If there are any LoDO brewers who really apply all (or as much as possible) of the procedures to eliminate O2..... if you are interested in a beer trade, let me know. I would love to sample some brew that went through this process. Would gladly send some homebrew/local commercial beer your way in return. I would be on board for the attention to detail if it is warranted.

I would be happy to except there isn't currently a widely accepted LoDO bottling process. I am pretty familiar with the filling process on the commercial scale, and don't think it scales well at all to the HB level. You're talking about multiple vacuum/purge cycles, a sealed fill cycle, and a cap being placed on foam all in a matter of milliseconds.

Come by for a sample though.

 

[grassfeeder]

seen some chatter about it. i wonder where Imperial is coming up with all of these strains?!

House could be like WLP007?

Barbarian could be like other Conan strains

Flagship could be like WLP001?

Pub MUST be WLP002-like?

Darkness could be like the WLP095, could be a lot of others though.

Wondering if Independence is WY1318-like?

Citrus?!

Now Juice?!

Imperial is local to me and Im picking up a can of Juice this week. Doing a split batch with one using Dryhop and the other Juice.

Barbarian is in fact their Conan strain. Juice is more like London Ale III per Imperial.

 

[mintyice]

I read the article quickly but do they say anything about agitating the hops if you bag them? I dry hop at room temp in the keg for 2 to 3 days and shake the heck out of it every so often. The hop flavor and aroma I get is pretty intense. On par with commercial NEIPA's.

Ed Coffey over at Ales of the Riverwards uses a bag to dry hop along with agitating it every now and then. He says he has no trouble getting the aroma and flavor he wants. http://www.alesoftheriverwards.com/2015/09/how-i-dry-hop-maximizing-aromas-on.html

Yeah I used to do this. I'll give it the keg a gentle swirl maybe once or twice a day, but I won't shake the **** out of it. You're just beating up your beer and mixing up any residual oxygen from filling. Call me paranoid about DO... especially since I know my transfer process isn't perfect.

I read something else that most of the oils get extracted in the same time period without agitation, but I forgot the source now...

 

[abbysdad2006]

6 gal 1.058 OG 1.016FG 5.5%

74.1% 10 lbs CMC pale
18.5% 2.5 lbs Flaked oats
3.7%

​

0.5 lbs whole wheat flour
3.7%

​

0.5 lbs lactose

0.25 oz 13.2%AA Columbus @ 60mins
1.5oz Citra 13.4% AA @ 5mins
1.5oz Citra 13.4% AA @ 185F 20min whirlpool
5oz Citra dry hop 48 hours
10oz Reanimator Rwanda Kanza 'dry bean' 48 hours

Awesome!! Thank you

 

[leesmith]

Yeah I used to do this. I'll give it the keg a gentle swirl maybe once or twice a day, but I won't shake the **** out of it. You're just beating up your beer and mixing up any residual oxygen from filling. Call me paranoid about DO... especially since I know my transfer process isn't perfect.

I read something else that most of the oils get extracted in the same time period without agitation, but I forgot the source now...

I hear you about the DO. I should be getting the parts to make a spunding valve today from Amazon....hopefully gonna be able to close transfer the last beer I brewed (4 days in primary) today to secondary/serving keg with the bagged hops.

Yeah, from all the stuff I've read, it seems like the dry hop oils and compounds are extracted pretty quick. 24-48 hours easily. These are small bits of leafy plant matter in an alcoholic liquid. My guess is after a couple of days all we are doing is conditioning the beer and any extended contact with the hop material is fruitless as far as extracting flavor from them.

 

[mintyice]

I hear you about the DO. I should be getting the parts to make a spunding valve today from Amazon....hopefully gonna be able to close transfer the last beer I brewed (4 days in primary) today to secondary/serving keg with the bagged hops.

Yeah, from all the stuff I've read, it seems like the dry hop oils and compounds are extracted pretty quick. 24-48 hours easily. These are small bits of leafy plant matter in an alcoholic liquid. My guess is after a couple of days all we are doing is conditioning the beer and any extended contact with the hop material is fruitless as far as extracting flavor from them.

I think the shaking aspect is just make sure the hops have contact with the beer instead of sitting on top. Oils aren't being extracted if they are floating above the beer. It's the reason people bag with weights to hold it down in solution.

 

[stickyfinger]

I still think I'd rather just go with my 2 oz/gallon dry-hop-only in the interest of saving time during brew day. I had forgotten about that study though.

What are you referring to with the shaking vs pure O2? Pure O2 may destroy some of the hopstand character? FWIW, I stopped using oxygen a long time ago and still get the attenuation I like. I just shake my carboys and pitch a large amount of very healthy yeast. Saves time.

I had forgotten about this XBMT as well, hard to remember all of these things!

http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/29/hop-stand-vs-dry-hop-exbeeriment-results/

 

[EndOfLine]

In regards to preventing oxidation. In the brewery I work for, we don't fill corney kegs that often, usually we rack sankes from the brite tanks. However, when we do fill corney kegs, we purge the keg, attach a transfer line to the liquid post, and twist the purge valve "on."

We fill the corney until foam/beer comes out of the top valve and then twist it shut. This get rids of any head space, or any hidden 02 under the lid.

 

[leesmith]

I think the shaking aspect is just make sure the hops have contact with the beer instead of sitting on top. Oils aren't being extracted if they are floating above the beer. It's the reason people bag with weights to hold it down in solution.

Right, that's why I shake the dry hop keg. Personally I think it does just as good a job as dry hopping loose.

My friend who has two really nice SS Brewtech conicals started rousing his beer every now and then with CO2 during his dry hop (which he does loose). He's getting greater aroma and flavor than ever before. He says he cranks the CO2 and really agitates the beer. And I feel like I get the same levels of aroma and flavor as him using glass carboys and dry hop kegs with bags (and I think he would agree).

I think agitation helps whether you use a bag or not.

We can all get to the same place with our beers without having to use the same process or tools to do so.

 

[schematix]

In regards to preventing oxidation. In the brewery I work for, we don't fill corney kegs that often, usually we rack sankes from the brite tanks. However, when we do fill corney kegs, we purge the keg, attach a transfer line to the liquid post, and twist the purge valve "on."

We fill the corney until foam/beer comes out of the top valve and then twist it shut. This get rids of any head space, or any hidden 02 under the lid.

How do you vent the ~3oz of volume trapped in the lid that is above the low point of the PRV? Corny lids aren't flat...

 

[kevink]

How do you vent the ~3oz of volume trapped in the lid that is above the low point of the PRV? Corny lids aren't flat...

Yep, you can't totally fill them while using the PRV as a vent since it hangs down about 0.5" from the lid's highest point. I usually fill the kegs until beer comes out of the PRV, seal it up, push ~10 oz of beer out with CO2, then purge the headspace a million times at 30 psi.

 

[EndOfLine]

How do you vent the ~3oz of volume trapped in the lid that is above the low point of the PRV? Corny lids aren't flat...

Fill the keg through the liquid post, until it comes out of the pressure relief valve on the top.

 

[stickyfinger]

Yep, you can't totally fill them while using the PRV as a vent since it hangs down about 0.5" from the lid's highest point.

Shaking the keg back and forth obviously gets rid of some of the trapped air, but I'd be interested to know how much remains after shaking. I always shake the keg back and forth in both directions and air bubbles come out. Can't get it all though I suppose.

 

[kevink]

Fill the keg through the liquid post, until it comes out of the pressure relief valve on the top.

You're not getting it. When beer comes out of the PRV, there is still air above the lowest point of the PRV.

 

[EndOfLine]

So at home you can fill one corny with sanitizer, and another corney wirh sanitizer. keg transfer into the other until it comes out of the pressure relief valve. Twist it shut.

 

[kevink]

So at home you can fill one corny with sanitizer, and another corney wirh sanitizer. keg transfer into the other until it comes out of the pressure relief valve. Twist it shut.

Even if you do that (which I do) you can't fill the keg 100% with sanitizer, so some air will remain.

 

[EndOfLine]

You're not getting it. When beer comes out of the PRV, there is still air above the lowest point of the PRV.

Under pressure, with liquid coming in and forcing itself out though a Tiny valve, I doubt there will be much of any air. If there is
Which I doubt, I dont think anyone can tell a difference.

 

[kevink]

No, no, it does not matter if it's under pressure or not. If you rack to a keg through the bev out and vent through the PRV until beer comes out the PRV, there is a volume of air left above the lowest point of the PRV, period. That's all we're saying.

 

[ttuato]

seen some chatter about it. i wonder where Imperial is coming up with all of these strains?!

House could be like WLP007?

Barbarian could be like other Conan strains

Flagship could be like WLP001?

Pub MUST be WLP002-like?

Darkness could be like the WLP095, could be a lot of others though.

Wondering if Independence is WY1318-like?

Citrus?!

Now Juice?!

Citrus is WLP644 Brux Trois

 

[stickyfinger]

Citrus is WLP644 Brux Trois

Interesting, anyone use WLP644 or the Citrus/Barbarian blend from Imperial? I'm not sure I'd want tartness in this style though.