EndOfLine
Well-Known Member
You mean mash right? 165 is a pasteurize temp
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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grassfeeder
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Why would I ever try to ferment at 165F. Name brewer in the world that does this. That is 100 degrees higher than the yeast strains call for.
This started as a typo and then some sarcasm and is now off the rails.
Back on track we go.
I've kegged on day 10 and 11 multiple times. FGs have finished somewhat high, in the .015-.017 range, for a pale ale but I just think it's because mashing temp and grains used. It could drop a couple more points if I left it in possibly but the beer is still really good so I don't care that much.
As long as your OG is in that range and you ramped the temp around day five I think you'll be ok. I don't think you'll get bottle bombs but could get some overcarbed ones if it's not completely done. I think this style really benefits from a lower carb too, 2.0-2.2 tops. Keep that in mind.
Ok good to know and i like to keep this carb range Inge lower end like u mentioned, I really think it helps to enhance mouthfeel.
I just brewed a 10 gallon batch of a NE Style IPA with predominantly Galaxy followed by Citra. I plan on putting it into 2 different kegs. One staying with the original recipe and then adding something to the second keg for a twist on it. I'm hoping to go away from the norm of using a different dry hop and I just tried coffee in my last ne style IPA which was good but now I'm on to something new. I was thinking adding some good Sauvignon Blanc. Any other suggestions?
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
coffee? that sounds awful! i'd have to taste it to believe it!!!
crusader1612
Well-Known Member
A brewery here did a coffee IPA, and it got mixed reviews.
Many people enjoed the extra little zing it had, coffee beans tend to have a citrus type flavor, which can compliment.
If you decide to use Sauvignon Blanc, be careful, as it will significantly increase the perception of acidity. IMO I wouldn't so this one, unless you've got some form of souring already in there (Lacto) some other type of fruit might be beneficial though?
another local brewery here, adds a number of different fruits to IPA's and they all taste fantastic, without over taking thebase.
Feijoa
Mango
Pineapple
Grapefruit (obvious)
I think He did peaches as well?
Oranges are a good choice as well.
(I've never had it) but someone does or did a coconut IPA awhile back?
Yeah the coffee was a cold brew of a light roast that had notes of lemon and citrus so it worked well the the citra/heull melon combo. Plus the cold brew cuts out the bitterness. A lot of people preferred it over the base beer.
Question for the group - how do you deal with (or do you even get), significant hop particles in your NEIPAs? I did a DDH, first stage in the fermenter, second stage in the keg. The second stage DH was 4 or so ounces, so not extreme. I keg DH loose, I have a shortened diptube (like 1/2 gallon or so shortened at least), and have drilled my stainless steel dry hopper and fit this over the dip tube. This has worked pretty well, but I usually end up with hop debris for a little while. This last batch, it is never ending. The biggest issue is this makes the beer painfully astringent and bitter, as you are scraping your tongue with tons of tiny little hop particles. Aroma is amazing but its pretty much undrinkable until it settles, if it does. The irony being, each day it is on the decline as we all know.
I am thinking the Clear Beer Draught system is in my future.
This picture is from a beer that has been kegged and under CO2 for 9 days at about 40 degrees, undisturbed. The picture was taken about 24 hours after it was poured and started to settle. When it comes out of the keg the hop floaties are everywhere. and they are suuuch tiny little flecks. I don't mind the yeast gunk but there is still so much hop junk.
I am thinking the Clear Beer Draught system is in my future.
This picture is from a beer that has been kegged and under CO2 for 9 days at about 40 degrees, undisturbed. The picture was taken about 24 hours after it was poured and started to settle. When it comes out of the keg the hop floaties are everywhere. and they are suuuch tiny little flecks. I don't mind the yeast gunk but there is still so much hop junk.
Yeah I was thinking of doing the fruit route with either mango or peaches but I like pineapple also. My wife wanted to complain but couldn't because it smelled so good that the whole house was engulfed with a mango/papaya aroma during the first couple days of fermentation. WLP007 is the yeast of choice this time around
mintyice
Well-Known Member
I did an all Citra coffee milkshake NEIPA last spring and it was fantastic. Lactose, whole wheat flour, etc. Dry hopped it with 8oz Citra and 10oz of whole beans.
abbysdad2006
Well-Known Member
I did an all Citra coffee milkshake NEIPA last spring and it was fantastic. Lactose, whole wheat flour, etc. Dry hopped it with 8oz Citra and 10oz of whole beans.
Wow!! That looks fantastic!! Would you mind throwing out the recipe for that one?!
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
I did one once where I added in citrus zest and crushed coriander to the boil. You could maybe dry-zest/dry-spice one.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
A few thoughts:
1) Don't dryhop in the keg - it always has led to very murky beer for me if you don't let it sit a pretty long time - try just doing it all in the primary and see if you like it.
2) Try using different varieties of hops once in awhile with this same method. Some don't give as much of that astringent, dry character when they are suspended in the beer. Simcoe, for example, doesn't do that as much as Citra in my experience. What hops did you use by the way? Some hops give a very strong bitterness in dryhop and others don't. The bitterness and astringency/drying are two distinct things in my experience. A recent Centennial IPA I did was super bitter after dryhop, first time I've gotten such a bitter dry hop beer!
3) Let it rest very cold for a few more weeks. It will start to clear. There will be a layer of yeast and hops forming on the bottom of your keg. If you don't suck that up with your setup, you will be good to go. If you keep oxygen out of your process pretty well on the cold side, the beer should taste really hoppy and great for at least 4-6 weeks in the keg, maybe longer.
4) It might help to try a different yeast. I have been toying with using WLP002 to see if it drops out more quickly and still leaves good hop character.
5) I bet the Clear Beer Draught would work well. I'm sure the beer at the top of your keg is much less yeast/hop-particle-laden than the beer at the bottom.
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That right there is your problem. If you must DH in a keg, do it in a mesh bag or something. I have stopped dry hopping in the keg and do it all in the primary with no ill effects.
ttuato
Well-Known Member
Here is a shot of how good the Clear Beer Draught system works with these beers - worth every penny!
I kegged this five days ago with 4oz of LOOSE pellets in the keg. I let it sit for three days at room temp, chilled for 24hrs then added 30lbs PSI for about six hours and shaken / rolled vigorously several times during that period, afterwards I dropped the pressure to 12lbs ---- that was 12hrs ago. No yeast, no trub, just the tiniest bit of hop matter still there, but will be gone by tomorrow.
To be fair though the last half gallon or so of the keg will produce the gunk that you are trying to avoid.
It's a neat idea, but I would much rather brew an extra half gallon of beer, dry hop in the primary, and get a full 5 gallons of drinkable beer in the keg.
mintyice
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'll edit this post with it when I get hop.
FYI: everyone dry hopping in bags, you are better off dry hopping loose! Clear beer draught system is amazing for this. Also supports the idea that loose dry hops add IBU.
http://www.hopsteiner.de/fileadmin/...Method_-_W._Mitter__S._Cocuzza__BBII_2013.pdf
"In the case of linalool, the use of pellets in loose form gives almost 50 per cent more extraction efficiency and, consequently, the likelihood
of a beer with a more intense aroma."
"Nevertheless, the method of hop addition appears to have a clear impact. If pellets are added to the beer in a finely woven, mesh-like container, then the solubility of alpha acid is particularly restricted. Similarly the linalool concentration only attains a considerably lower level."
For anyone debating the use of hopstand vs dry hop there was a very thorough investigation done by Rock Bottom Breweries and published under the title: "Maximizing Hop Aroma and Flavor Through Process Variables". I was able to find the entire PDF through a quick google search.
I highly recommend reading it and observing specifically the graphics comparing the results. They tested:
1: Short Hopstand (50 minute postboil residence) 0.5 oz hops per gallon
2: Long Hopstand (80 minute postboil residence) 0.5 oz hops per gallon
3: Half Hopstand/Dry (80 minute postboil residence) 0.25 oz per gallon in hopstand, 0.25 oz per gallon in dry
4: Dry (no hopstand) 0.5 hops per gallon
The results were definite that #3 (half hopstand/half dry) produced the most hop aroma and hop flavor. #4, which was a dry hop only with the same amount of total hops, had equivalent hop aroma but was lacking on the hop flavor. The spider graphics in the article are very telling.
The study was done using commercial equipment, which are different than us homebrewers, but the results really helped me understand what can be accomplished using a specific set of controlled procedures.
I also found the LODO discussion on here interesting, and got me thinking that shaking the carboy for oxygenation, rather than using pure O2 and a diffusion stone may be why some hopstand results suffer.
McT
I highly recommend reading it and observing specifically the graphics comparing the results. They tested:
1: Short Hopstand (50 minute postboil residence) 0.5 oz hops per gallon
2: Long Hopstand (80 minute postboil residence) 0.5 oz hops per gallon
3: Half Hopstand/Dry (80 minute postboil residence) 0.25 oz per gallon in hopstand, 0.25 oz per gallon in dry
4: Dry (no hopstand) 0.5 hops per gallon
The results were definite that #3 (half hopstand/half dry) produced the most hop aroma and hop flavor. #4, which was a dry hop only with the same amount of total hops, had equivalent hop aroma but was lacking on the hop flavor. The spider graphics in the article are very telling.
The study was done using commercial equipment, which are different than us homebrewers, but the results really helped me understand what can be accomplished using a specific set of controlled procedures.
I also found the LODO discussion on here interesting, and got me thinking that shaking the carboy for oxygenation, rather than using pure O2 and a diffusion stone may be why some hopstand results suffer.
McT
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
I still think I'd rather just go with my 2 oz/gallon dry-hop-only in the interest of saving time during brew day. I had forgotten about that study though.
What are you referring to with the shaking vs pure O2? Pure O2 may destroy some of the hopstand character? FWIW, I stopped using oxygen a long time ago and still get the attenuation I like. I just shake my carboys and pitch a large amount of very healthy yeast. Saves time.
LoDO refers to:
1. Oxygen exposure on the hot side that subtly change the malt flavors.
2. Long term oxygen exposure on the cold side. Oxygenating when you are pitching active yeast is not considered detrimental because the yeast quickly (within hours) take up all of the dissolved oxygen. However, racking into a keg after fermenting is complete will result in DO above what is considered acceptable thresholds with just about any set up.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
How about racking to a purges keg. Heard what the DO level is from that? Seems to give good results
Yes it's over the limits in even the best purged systems.
From personal experience, i noted an improvement in oxidation flavors (and hop longevity) as my system evolved...
1. Fermenting in buckets for 4 weeks. Racking wide open then purging keg 3 times. Forced carbonation.
2. Fermenting in PET bottles for 4 weeks. Racking wide open then purging keg 3 times. Forced carbonation.
3. Fermenting in PET bottles for 4 weeks. Transferring under external CO2 pressure. Forced carbonation.
4. Fermenting minimally in PET bottles (about 7 days for ales, 12 days for lagers). Transferring under external CO2 pressure to water purged keg. Forced carbonation.
5. Fermenting in corny kegs. Vent fermentation gases through serving keg that was water purged. Transfer to serving with remaining 4-6 points fermentable sugar remaining (not based on time) and carbonate naturally.
Each step was better than the previous, but steps 3-4 and 4-5 were the ones that had the biggest improvements.
Further, if you naturally carbonate, 99.9% pure CO2 is sufficiently impure to oxidize your beer. Only option i am aware of to LoDO on the cold side is to naturally carbonate. I suspected this for a long time but never crunched the numbers.
Until my last couple batches where i took LoDO to the extreme i really had no idea how much better my beer could be. Unfortunately it's a lot more work but the beer is a step up.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
Given that the LODO should theoretically increase hop character, maybe the best solution to try is to just use a hopstand for the hopping? Would a hopstand be antithetical to LODO due to the extra oxygen exposure, especially if you have a whirlpool? Then, you don't have to worry about dry-hopping, and should come away with a very aromatic and flavorful beer.
stickyfinger
Well-Known Member
300 micron.
No xfer, let the beer sit on the hops in the kegerator cold. Have not had ill effects that some people believe comes from this ("green or vegetal"). Oldsock and JC have stated the same, no ill effects they have seen.
This batch is very finnicky. I wonder if something happened to my filter (dislodged or otherwise). The way i have it setup, is the filter is over the diptube, but the filter touches the bottom of the keg, and the diptube is cut. so in theory, even if particles sneak into the filter, they would settle, and i'd be drawing beer above the bottom, and surrounded by a 300 micron SS mesh filter. In theory.
Awesome, think its settled, that is what I am heading towards.
