New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[brewkinger]

More flaked oats/barley.... no problem. Might be even better.

Lower temp for whirlpool.... no problem. I am honestly not that precise.... I just chill it down until I can put my hand on the outside of the kettle and not burn the crap out of myself.

I see no problem at all with either of these things.

Thanks for the input.

I did a little reading last night about hop stands and whirlpooling and the utilization of hops etc...
Everything I read indicated that it should be more balanced flavor profile at my temps and particularly with the acid values of the hops I used.

I will report back with the finished product including pictures and flavor evaluation.

 

[m00ps]

1) Is the 1318 an aggressive yeast (like Notty)? Reason that I ask is mostly educational as I have a blowoff tube in place and am just wondering because I have very little headspace in the bucket. It is in the swamp cooler at the moment and that tends to keep it down in the low 60s until it really gets going. I will check it in the morning before work and add ice if needed.

Notty isnt too aggressive a yeast. No more than the typical chico strain I'd say. WY 1318 isn't what id describe as "aggressive" either. Its is a bit less attenuative than most cleaner yeasts, but it is notorious for producing a huge krausen which sometimes never subsides. Ive had to punch holes in it to bottle and take readings multiple times.

Bottom line - you're gonna really need that blowoff and youd better be ready to swap out that blowoff container

 

[ViciousFishes]

I recently brewed up a 10g batch of my Here Be Dragons IPA, the design for which was inspired in part by this thread. It recently won silver in the Carolina Quarterly Brew Off run by Raleigh Brewing and I am really proud of it. So, first, thanks for all the things I've learned through this discussion.

In the double batch, I used different yeasts - 1318/London Ale III and 1335/British Ale II. I wanted to try to compare 1318 with Conan, but could not source it locally anywhere in the RTP area.

Here's the question - I've never not fined my beers with gelatin. I'm really on the fence on whether to do so for these batches. I intend to enter the better of the two batches in an upcoming competition - I love getting feedback and constructive criticism to help me improve my process. I've tried searching this thread, m00ps' thread, mad ferementationinst, scottjanish, etc, etc and I'm not finding a clear consensus. I'd appreciate if folks would lend their thoughts.
They're currently in the process of cold crashing and I'd typically fine with gelatin tomorrow, so need to make a decision pretty soon.

 

[Braufessor]

Did you fine the last one you entered? If so, and it did well, I guess I would fine it again if that is what you like and are used to. If you had a way to keg 1/2 and 1/2...... like if you had a couple 2.5 or 3 gallon kegs - you could split one and fine half, and not fine half.

Or, decide which of the yeasts you like this time around. Next time around, brew two batches with the yeast you like and fine one and leave one alone and see if you have a preference.

I guess if you are thinking toward a competition, I would stick to what brought you success last time and then "test" fining on your next double batch.

 

[ViciousFishes]

Did you fine the last one you entered? If so, and it did well, I guess I would fine it again if that is what you like and are used to. If you had a way to keg 1/2 and 1/2...... like if you had a couple 2.5 or 3 gallon kegs - you could split one and fine half, and not fine half.

Or, decide which of the yeasts you like this time around. Next time around, brew two batches with the yeast you like and fine one and leave one alone and see if you have a preference.

I guess if you are thinking toward a competition, I would stick to what brought you success last time and then "test" fining on your next double batch.

That's a great question... I think I did?... Went back to my BeerSmith brewlog and had put a note for the day it would have been done. But I can't really remember whether I did/not. Here's how it came out:

 

[lilbova3]

Sorry for a slight hijack but for those of you that bottle, keggers out there please don't hate on us, I'm curious any best practices you do when bottling these hoppy IPAs. I know there are threads out there about bottling but want to hear what everyone is doing with these overly hoppy, juicy and delicious IPAs. Here's a couple of things I do and wonder if there are any other tips out there:

1. After having sanitized everything, I fill my auto-siphon with StarSan and plug the hose end with my thumb to keep StarSan in there. Put the other end into my carboy and let my thumb off the tube end. Kinda of a closed transfer until it hits the bucket and is exposed to some air.
2. I do use a bottle filler and allow the beer to fill the bottle completely and spill over slightly. Then will throw a cap on immediately but will not crimp yet.
3. Make sure I get a good cap and see the indentations on the top of the cap.

Don't have the capabilities to purge anything, yet, I'm sure that would be best to do with my bottling bucket. So I bet I get some O2 in there when transferring.

Anything else you could add.

 

[Braufessor]

That's a great question... I think I did?... Went back to my BeerSmith brewlog and had put a note for the day it would have been done. But I can't really remember whether I did/not. Here's how it came out:

View attachment 356827

Hmmm... I don't think that looks "fined"..... I would expect it to be clearer. It is hazy but not "murky"... Looks like the yeast was dropped out well, but sure is not "clear" by any stretch of the imagination.

I am no expert on that though.... I have not fined one of these beers (although I do with my lagers and some other beers). Mine tend to drop the yeast out by gravity, and the dry hopping leaves them hazy.... but kind of like yours.

That is a nice looking beer though.

 

[EMH5]

@Braufessor - in the last NE IPA I made based on your recipe, I used 6 lbs 2-row, 6 lbs golden promise and 1 lb America White Wheat. I went to my LHBS and they were out of all of it and the truck delivery was delayed as well.

So I went with UK 2-row (8), Halcyon (4) and torrified wheat (1/2)... Ever use these?

We will see how this turns out I guess.

 

[brewkinger]

WY 1318 isn't what I'd describe as "aggressive" either. It's is a bit less attenuative than most cleaner yeasts, but it is notorious for producing a huge krausen which sometimes never subsides. Ive had to punch holes in it to bottle and take readings multiple times.

You are not kidding with this about the krausen. I came home today to check it (30 hours after pitch) and lifted the lid to take a peek.
I only had about 1.5" at pitch and now the krausen is packed right up tight to the lid and most interesting is that the surface has taken on the impression of the design on the inside of the lid.
If I was not such a chicken $h!t, I would leave it open and try and take a picture. It almost looks like tree bark

 

[Braufessor]

@Braufessor - in the last NE IPA I made based on your recipe, I used 6 lbs 2-row, 6 lbs golden promise and 1 lb America White Wheat. I went to my LHBS and they were out of all of it and the truck delivery was delayed as well.

So I went with UK 2-row (8), Halcyon (4) and torrified wheat (1/2)... Ever use these?

We will see how this turns out I guess.

You should be good with those. I have not used Halcyon .... but it is in the ballpark of Pearl or Golden Promise. Those grains should produce a good beer.

 

[brew703]

Brewed on friday. Pitched on Saturday morning. I figured this yeast would be a beast so added a blow-off tube as I was not going to be home saturday.
Never saw any activity so replaced with an airlock today.
Decided to take a gravity check just to see if I needed to add any yeast.
Gravity is about 1.025 after three days.
Started out at 1.053.
Never checked gravity this early. Do you guys think I'm headed in the right direction? Very little krausen and used Brew United's calc to figure starter/harvest/pitch amt. I'm wondering if i underpitched.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1464739811.995576.jpg

 

[Braufessor]

Brewed on friday. Pitched on Saturday morning. I figured this yeast would be a beast so added a blow-off tube as I was not going to be home saturday.
Never saw any activity do replaced with an airlock today.
Decided to take a gravity check just to see if I needed to add any yeast.
Gravity is about 1.025 after three days.
Started out at 1.053.
Never checked gravity this early. Do you guys think I'm headed in the right direction?
View attachment 356877

Which yeast?
What temp are you fermenting at?
Starter?

1.025 after 3 days does not sound unreasonable. I usually do my first dry hop at day 5, and there is still some fermentation going at that point.... and that is pitching an active starter.

 

[brew703]

Which yeast?

What temp are you fermenting at?

Starter?



1.025 after 3 days does not sound unreasonable. I usually do my first dry hop at day 5, and there is still some fermentation going at that point.... and that is pitching an active starter.

Giga yeast GY054
Started at 62 but raised to 65.
Made a 1.5L started. Starter didn't do much. Had a ring of foam for a few hours but not much more. Left on the stirplate for 36 hours.

 

[Braufessor]

Giga yeast GY054
Started at 62 but raised to 65.
Made a 1.5L started. Starter didn't do much. Had a ring of foam for a few hours but not much more. Left on the stirplate for 36 hours.

I would let it go to 68-70 now. That is pretty much what I do.... start at 62, fermentation takes it up to 66.... then I move it around day 3 to 68-70 ambient temp.

Should be plenty of yeast.... although, better to pitch it while active at 18 hours or so.... pitch the entire starter. No crashing, no decanting.... and probably only need 1L starter. "Cell count" is WAAYYYY overrated in almost all beers. It is one thing if you are brewing a RIS or barleywine. But for a normal 1.05-06-07 kind of beer... it is far more important to pitch an actively fermenting starter than it is to try to "build up" a certain cell count.

I think you should be ok though..... warm it up to help it finish out. I have always found 1st generation conan rather sluggish.... even with a starter. That is why I always start it in a 1.040 blonde ale and take it from there.

 

[brew703]

I would let it go to 68-70 now. That is pretty much what I do.... start at 62, fermentation takes it up to 66.... then I move it around day 3 to 68-70 ambient temp.



Should be plenty of yeast.... although, better to pitch it while active at 18 hours or so.... pitch the entire starter. No crashing, no decanting.... and probably only need 1L starter. "Cell count" is WAAYYYY overrated in almost all beers. It is one thing if you are brewing a RIS or barleywine. But for a normal 1.05-06-07 kind of beer... it is far more important to pitch an actively fermenting starter than it is to try to "build up" a certain cell count.



I think you should be ok though..... warm it up to help it finish out. I have always found 1st generation conan rather sluggish.... even with a starter. That is why I always start it in a 1.040 blonde ale and take it from there.

Thanks for the reply.
I'll raise up to 68 and see what happens.

 

[g-star]

Thanks for the reply.
I'll raise up to 68 and see what happens.

I've used Conan from ECY and Giga, and all three times the beer crapped out at 1.023 after pitching/fermenting around 66-68F. Raised it to 72F...nothing. I had to resort to pitching an active stir-plate starter of WLP001 to get the beer to finish.

For these reasons, I will never use it again. Burned 3 times, and the special aroma characteristics it is supposed to impart are totally overrated, IMO.

 

[brew703]

I've used Conan from ECY and Giga, and all three times the beer crapped out at 1.023 after pitching/fermenting around 66-68F. Raised it to 72F...nothing. I had to resort to pitching an active stir-plate starter of WLP001 to get the beer to finish.

For these reasons, I will never use it again. Burned 3 times, and the special aroma characteristics it is supposed to impart are totally overrated, IMO.

I kind of have the same feeling. I will be bottling a batch of DA Yoopers PA tonight that I used Wyeast 1056. Thinking about adding some of the slurry to get it to finish.

Don't know if I will ever buy the Conan strain again. Disappointed so far but have some fresh yeast I harvested from my starter that I will try again but may use it first to make a blonde as noted in a previous post.

 

[PeteNMA]

I find you need to be pretty aggressive ramping the temp with Conan particularly on its first generation, pretty much pitch at 64-66 then let it free rise up to 70-72. It ferments faster than most yeasts seem to so you have to keep an eye on it

 

[brew703]

Temp is at 68 now. Will be dry hopping the first batch today and will ramp the temps to 70. I'll check the gravity again on Sunday and see where it's at.

If it has stalled at 1.020-1.025 would you add yeast to get it going or leave as is? I've never had yeast not get close to FG.

 

[Braufessor]

Warming and dry hop should help get a few more points. If it does end up stalling at 1.018 or higher.... I would definitely pitch some actively fermenting 1056 or similar to finish it out. 1.014-1.018 is borderline. 1.014 and under and I definitely would not worry about it.

Can't emphasize enough for those using conan for the first time..... It is a great yeast, but, like others ... that first generation can be sluggish. I brew 30-40 batches or more a year with conan. EVERY batch finishes at 1.010-1.012. I had the same struggles that others have mentioned though when I took a vial or smack pack (with a starter) and went right into a 1.055+ IPA to start.... ended up with that 1.016 kind of thing happening almost every time. In my opinion, the best way to use conan is this:

*New vial/pack...... brew a 1.040 blonde ale. Low hops, no dry hops.
*Make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before you need to pitch it.
*Pitch the entire, actively fermenting starter to your blonde ale
*Days 1-3 temps start around 62-64 and climb to 66-68.
*Day 3-4 let temps go to 68-72 to finish out.
*Day 10-14 range, cold crash or let yeast settle out and transfer to keg (bottle)
*When getting ready to keg/bottle - put 5-6 jars and lids in star san.... half pint or pint size mason jars (I like the plastic, reusable lids you can buy for them).
*Leave about 1-2 pints of beer in the fermenter.
*Swirl up the beer and yeast in the fermenter to get everything in suspension.
*Take jars out of starsan... pour yeast slurry into jars... about 75% full or so.
*(I use bottling buckets and SS Brewbuckets for fermenters - they have spigots, so this is a very easy step... might need to formulate your own strategy if you use something else... for instance, make sure lip of carboy is very clean (isopropyl alcohol for instance ) if you are pouring from a carboy).
*Fill jars quickly and pull lids out of star san and cap.
*Put in fridge.
*When it comes time to brew your IPA's..... take out jar, dunk in star san several times. Get starter vessel and wort ready. *Decant most of what is in jar - leave enough to swirl yeast cake back up and dump into your starter vessel. Make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before pitch time.
*Pitch entire, actively fermenting starter within 12-18 hours of making it.
*Use 5 of your 6 jars on IPA's (or whatever). Jar #6 goes back in another blonde ale(or lawnmower beer of choice).
*Repeat.

Since I have started doing this, I have probably had 75-100 consecutive beers with conan finish at 1.010-1.012. Most were probably in the 1.055-1.065 range. Occasionally a bit higher... but I am just not a fan of 7-8% IPA's. But, I have seen no fall off at the 1.065 range either.

 

[stickyfinger]

*New vial/pack...... brew a 1.040 blonde ale. Low hops, no dry hops.
*Make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before you need to pitch it.
*Pitch the entire, actively fermenting starter to your blonde ale
*Days 1-3 temps start around 62-64 and climb to 66-68.
*Day 3-4 let temps go to 68-72 to finish out.
*Day 10-14 range, cold crash or let yeast settle out and transfer to keg (bottle)
*When getting ready to keg/bottle - put 5-6 jars and lids in star san.... half pint or pint size mason jars (I like the plastic, reusable lids you can buy for them).
*Leave about 1-2 pints of beer in the fermenter.
*Swirl up the beer and yeast in the fermenter to get everything in suspension.
*Take jars out of starsan... pour yeast slurry into jars... about 75% full or so.
*(I use bottling buckets and SS Brewbuckets for fermenters - they have spigots, so this is a very easy step... might need to formulate your own strategy if you use something else... for instance, make sure lip of carboy is very clean (isopropyl alcohol for instance ) if you are pouring from a carboy).
*Fill jars quickly and pull lids out of star san and cap.
*Put in fridge.
*When it comes time to brew your IPA's..... take out jar, dunk in star san several times. Get starter vessel and wort ready. *Decant most of what is in jar - leave enough to swirl yeast cake back up and dump into your starter vessel. Make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before pitch time.
*Pitch entire, actively fermenting starter within 12-18 hours of making it.
*Use 5 of your 6 jars on IPA's (or whatever). Jar #6 goes back in another blonde ale(or lawnmower beer of choice).
*Repeat.

Since I have started doing this, I have probably had 75-100 consecutive beers with conan finish at 1.010-1.012. Most were probably in the 1.055-1.065 range. Occasionally a bit higher... but I am just not a fan of 7-8% IPA's. But, I have seen no fall off at the 1.065 range either.

Thanks for this write-up. Maybe this can help people on using this strain, since it seems to be a bit temperamental. I really enjoyed the mouthfeel of the beer the first time I used it though. I compared it with the exact same wort vs US-05. Both beers fermented down to the exact same FG, but I used 1.044 OG, so I might have been lucky. The US-05 seemed much drier and thinner than the Conan. I think Conan could be a great weapon in the battle to make lower alcohol beers that don't taste thin. I didn't really get any ester profile from it. I fermented at 62F and then rose up to 68 at the end.

 

[brew703]

Warming and dry hop should help get a few more points. If it does end up stalling at 1.018 or higher.... I would definitely pitch some actively fermenting 1056 or similar to finish it out. 1.014-1.018 is borderline. 1.014 and under and I definitely would not worry about it.

Can't emphasize enough for those using conan for the first time..... It is a great yeast, but, like others ... that first generation can be sluggish. I brew 30-40 batches or more a year with conan. EVERY batch finishes at 1.010-1.012. I had the same struggles that others have mentioned though when I took a vial or smack pack (with a starter) and went right into a 1.055+ IPA to start.... ended up with that 1.016 kind of thing happening almost every time. In my opinion, the best way to use conan is this:

*New vial/pack...... brew a 1.040 blonde ale. Low hops, no dry hops.
*Make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before you need to pitch it.
*Pitch the entire, actively fermenting starter to your blonde ale
*Days 1-3 temps start around 62-64 and climb to 66-68.
*Day 3-4 let temps go to 68-72 to finish out.
*Day 10-14 range, cold crash or let yeast settle out and transfer to keg (bottle)
*When getting ready to keg/bottle - put 5-6 jars and lids in star san.... half pint or pint size mason jars (I like the plastic, reusable lids you can buy for them).
*Leave about 1-2 pints of beer in the fermenter.
*Swirl up the beer and yeast in the fermenter to get everything in suspension.
*Take jars out of starsan... pour yeast slurry into jars... about 75% full or so.
*(I use bottling buckets and SS Brewbuckets for fermenters - they have spigots, so this is a very easy step... might need to formulate your own strategy if you use something else... for instance, make sure lip of carboy is very clean (isopropyl alcohol for instance ) if you are pouring from a carboy).
*Fill jars quickly and pull lids out of star san and cap.
*Put in fridge.
*When it comes time to brew your IPA's..... take out jar, dunk in star san several times. Get starter vessel and wort ready. *Decant most of what is in jar - leave enough to swirl yeast cake back up and dump into your starter vessel. Make a 1L starter 12-18 hours before pitch time.
*Pitch entire, actively fermenting starter within 12-18 hours of making it.
*Use 5 of your 6 jars on IPA's (or whatever). Jar #6 goes back in another blonde ale(or lawnmower beer of choice).
*Repeat.

Since I have started doing this, I have probably had 75-100 consecutive beers with conan finish at 1.010-1.012. Most were probably in the 1.055-1.065 range. Occasionally a bit higher... but I am just not a fan of 7-8% IPA's. But, I have seen no fall off at the 1.065 range either.

Great information.
So you use one pint size jar to make a starter and pitch that entire jar? I know it's difficult to estimate but with all the hop debris that will in the slurry, what would you estimate the cell count to be if a pint size jar is filled 75% full with slurry? I'm asking because I never brewed a beer that had as much hops added as your recipe.

 

[stickyfinger]

Great information.
So you use one pint size jar to make a starter and pitch that entire jar? I know it's difficult to estimate but with all the hop debris that will in the slurry, what would you estimate the cell count to be if a pint size jar is filled 75% full with slurry? I'm asking because I never brewed a beer that had as much hops added as your recipe.

The jars of yeast were harvested from his 1.040 blonde, so there should be very little detritus mixed in with the yeast I would think.

 

[brew703]

The jars of yeast were harvested from his 1.040 blonde, so there should be very little detritus mixed in with the yeast I would think.

That would make sense. Guess I mis-read the post.
So the yeast that is used in brewing the NE IPA would be discarded once finished?

 

[Braufessor]

Here are a couple jars from fridge. I would decant most of beer off one jar and use the yeast in the jar to make a 1L starter 12 hours before I brew. I then will pitch that entire 1L starter into wort. When you fill a jar with slurry, most of it is just beer. The yeast will settle out. The yeast I collect is from blonde ale..... Not IPAs. I dump my IPA yeast after those batches. The blonde ale is a very clean beer.....2 total ounces of hops and most of those settle out and are left behind in kettle.

 

[stickyfinger]

Here are a couple jars from fridge. I would decant most of beer off one jar and use the yeast in the jar to make a 1L starter 12 hours before I brew. I then will pitch that entire 1L starter into wort. When you fill a jar with slurry, most of it is just beer. The yeast will settle out. The yeast I collect is from blonde ale..... Not IPAs. I dump my IPA yeast after those batches. The blonde ale is a very clean beer.....2 total ounces of hops and most of those settle out and are left behind in kettle.

Wait a minute. I don't think we should be taking this guy's advice after all. THIRD PLACE!

 

[Braufessor]

Wait a minute. I don't think we should be taking this guy's advice after all. THIRD PLACE!

Hahaha... Good point. Should have moved my starter in front of this one to instill more confidence

 

[stickyfinger]

Hahaha... Good point. Should have moved my starter in front of this one to instill more confidence

That's more like it, but it's a little dated... ha ha ha!

 

[brewski09]

*When getting ready to keg/bottle - put 5-6 jars and lids in star san.... half pint or pint size mason jars (I like the plastic, reusable lids you can buy for them).

I was always concerned about the seal on the plastic kids and infection potential with them. I've had the plastic lids leak. You can boil the metal ones to sterilize and if they can leak, microorganisms can enter the mason jar.

 

[Calaeb]

Kids' last school day here. Took the day off to brew.

10# GP
2.5# Flaked Oats
1318 starter
0.75oz Warrior at 60 min for bittering
2.5oz Mosaic/1.5oz Nelson at flameout for 30 min whirlpool
2.5oz Mosaic/1.5oz Nelson for an additional 30 min whirlpool (started when temp was ~180F)
Will do 2 dry hop charges with the same amounts as the first two

SG: 1.060

Came out super green like all the other beers I've brewed with this base recipe
Pretty sure I'll need a blowoff tube on this one since I ended up with about 6 gallons

So many Iowa guys in this thread, I love it!