New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Ulisses4677]

What hops did you use?

You can always do another dry hop with southern hemesphire hops. Did you have a stable Fg before dry hopping. I usually let my beer sit at terminal gravity for 2/3 days make sure I get all the yeast out of solution before I transfer and do my first dry hop.

 

[LumberZach]

You can always do another dry hop with southern hemesphire hops. Did you have a stable Fg before dry hopping. I usually let my beer sit at terminal gravity for 2/3 days make sure I get all the yeast out of solution before I transfer and do my first dry hop.

I already dumped it and will be rebrewing with Escarpment Foggy London in a few days. It's a good thing I brew 2 gallon batches. Wasn't nearly as painful as dumping a 5+ gallon batch.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I’ve brewed over 10 batches with wyeast 1272 and haven’t had any issues. It’s great, really lets the hops pop.

 

[LumberZach]

I’ve brewed over 10 batches with wyeast 1272 and haven’t had any issues. It’s great, really lets the hops pop.

I'm sure it's great, but this was not a good first impression for me. I have never had a hazy ipa drop clear and I've been brewing them since 2016. I was excited to try it since it's the yeast Fidens uses. Their beers look like OJ without the use of Southern Hemisphere hops. Not quite sure what went wrong.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I’ve had plenty of fidens. The only thing I can think of is you probably still had plenty of yeast in solution at the time of dry hopping.

 

[LumberZach]

I’ve had plenty of fidens. The only thing I can think of is you probably still had plenty of yeast in solution at the time of dry hopping.

That's probably what it was. I tried hopping at the tail end of fermentation. I should have stuck with what I usually do and soft crash for a day or two, then dry hop.

 

[aaronm13]

During cold crash, my 1272 hazy double dropped clear. It had a 5lbs. per barrel equivalent dry hop in it along with 30% raw wheat and 10% flaked oats. Water was 200ppm Chloride and 70ppm Sulfate. Calcium was below 100ppm. I dry hopped with a few points left. Not sure where I went wrong.

That's a weird one. My dipa with 1272 is in the keg now about 4-5 weeks and is still as hazy as the day I kegged it. My dry hop was around your levels too but was all post soft crash and transfer to a dry hop keg.

Still not sure about 1272 though as being my go to yeast. I know Fidens say it lets the hops pop more and in fairness if I was getting hand selected hops like they do I'd want that too but I think with the hops we get as homebrewers I think we need a bit of help from the yeast. going to do another batch this weekend with A24 to see which I prefer.

 

[LumberZach]

That's a weird one. My dipa with 1272 is in the keg now about 4-5 weeks and is still as hazy as the day I kegged it. My dry hop was around your levels too but was all post soft crash and transfer to a dry hop keg.

Still not sure about 1272 though as being my go to yeast. I know Fidens say it lets the hops pop more and in fairness if I was getting hand selected hops like they do I'd want that too but I think with the hops we get as homebrewers I think we need a bit of help from the yeast. going to do another batch this weekend with A24 to see which I prefer.

I agree. I'm going back to Escarpment Foggy London.

 

[beervoid]

That's a weird one. My dipa with 1272 is in the keg now about 4-5 weeks and is still as hazy as the day I kegged it. My dry hop was around your levels too but was all post soft crash and transfer to a dry hop keg.

Still not sure about 1272 though as being my go to yeast. I know Fidens say it lets the hops pop more and in fairness if I was getting hand selected hops like they do I'd want that too but I think with the hops we get as homebrewers I think we need a bit of help from the yeast. going to do another batch this weekend with A24 to see which I prefer.

Perhaps 1272 is not exactly the same as the BSI they use.
I've trialled 1272 back in the days cause Bissel claimed to use it and it was equal but I never got the results I wanted and haze issues indeed.

 

[echoALEia]

Perhaps 1272 is not exactly the same as the BSI they use.
I've trialled 1272 back in the days cause Bissel claimed to use it and it was equal but I never got the results I wanted and haze issues indeed.

If they are genetically the same strain I would be surprised. I will say I’ve gotten excellent hazies with both, but I tried the same recipe with both and they were different - but in good ways, I’m torn which one I should continue to use. I will say with A72 I was able to harvest a lot more!

 

[Dgallo]

If they are genetically the same strain I would be surprised. I will say I’ve gotten excellent hazies with both, but I tried the same recipe with both and they were different - but in good ways, I’m torn which one I should continue to use. I will say with A72 I was able to harvest a lot more!

I do not believe they are genetically the same strain and that they are technically variants of one another due to mutation. That said, they should behave relatively the same.

@LumberZach there’s a lot to haze stability but the big cause for clearing is molecular weight of compounds, if they are large and heavy they drop out. The size of the protein chains (malted oats small, flaked oats large), how effective the yeast strain is at binding polyphenols and proteins during fermentation. If you are dip hoping, adding hops from kettle, or dryhoping during fermentation, more binding will occur making longer chains and greater molecular weight which will result in more clearing.

So you would really have to go through your process to see what caused it. I wouldnt suspect it’s solely the yeast strain, probably a combination of factors

 

[LumberZach]

I do not believe they are genetically the same strain and that they are technically variants of one another due to mutation. That said, they should behave relatively the same.

@LumberZach there’s a lot to haze stability but the big cause for clearing is molecular weight of compounds, if they are large and heavy they drop out. The size of the protein chains (malted oats small, flaked oats large), how effective the yeast strain is at binding polyphenols and proteins during fermentation. If you are dip hoping, adding hops from kettle, or dryhoping during fermentation, more binding will occur making longer chains and greater molecular weight which will result in more clearing.

So you would really have to go through your process to see what caused it. I wouldnt suspect it’s solely the yeast strain, probably a combination of factors

I dry hopped with a few points left. Also used 30% raw wheat and 10% flaked oats. Not letting it finish, doing a soft crash, then dry hopping is what I should have done. I tasted it before I dumped it. Smelled great, but had a tart character I didn't like.

 

[Dgallo]

I dry hopped with a few points left. Also used 30% raw wheat and 10% flaked oats. Not letting it finish, doing a soft crash, then dry hopping is what I should have done. I tasted it before I dumped it. Smelled great, but had a tart character I didn't like.

I think this all played its part. The raw wheat definitely could contribute to more clearing as it would have the largest protein chains as they are not being altered at all by germination or the heat of the malting process. Raw wheat then paired with flaked oats would make for 40% of your grainbill having long branch chain proteins. When you couple that with a large dryhop when the yeast is active, you will produce a less stable haze that is prone to clearing

 

[LumberZach]

I think this all played its part. The raw wheat definitely could contribute to more clearing as it would have the largest protein chains as they are not being altered at all by germination or the heat of the malting process. Raw wheat then paired with flaked oats would make for 40% of your grainbill having long branch chain proteins. When you couple that with a large dryhop when the yeast is active, you will produce a less stable haze that is prone to clearing

I took what Evan at Green Cheek said about hazys and just used a different yeast. Their beers are hazy, thick, and flavorful.

 

[Dgallo]

I took what Evan at Green Cheek said about hazys and just used a different yeast. Their beers are hazy, thick, and flavorful.

all I can say is what I explained is what is happening to the proteins chains and the molecules keep getting larger due to the yeast binding the polyphenols to them, so take it as you will.

Did he explain a mash schedule? If he is using that much unmalted grains and still producing stable haze in his beers, I would bet he is performing a protein rest.

 

[beervoid]

I took what Evan at Green Cheek said about hazys and just used a different yeast. Their beers are hazy, thick, and flavorful.

did you do any rousing?
was it a fresh pitch of yeast? aeriated? also yeast stress can play a role. at what day into fermentation exactly did you dryhop?

 

[Ulisses4677]

all I can say is what I explained is what is happening to the proteins chains and the molecules keep getting larger due to the yeast binding the polyphenols to them, so take it as you will.

Did he explain a mash schedule? If he is using that much unmalted grains and still producing stable haze in his beers, I would bet he is performing a protein rest.

I’m pulling this from the back of my head but I think they do single mash infusion but apply bioglucanes which will aid in mash run of and haze stability.

 

[beervoid]

I’m pulling this from the back of my head but I think they do single mash infusion but apply bioglucanes which will aid in mash run of and haze stability.

Correct they use enzymes for better runoff. Your memory is still in good condition.

 

[Dgallo]

I’m pulling this from the back of my head but I think they do single mash infusion but apply bioglucanes which will aid in mash run of and haze stability.

that would explain how they are getting haze stability. I wasn’t even thinking using enzymes but that would have a similar effect

 

[LumberZach]

So if I use raw wheat or even flaked wheat or flaked oats again, I should use β-glucanase? Seems easy enough.

 

[Dgallo]

So if I use raw wheat or even flaked wheat or flaked oats again, I should use β-glucanase? Seems easy enough.

IFlaked oats and flaked wheat are fine around 20-30%, above that you may want to (just remember they are high in maganese and are mor susceptible to oxidation than their malted version)

For any raw grains, protein rest or enzymes would be recommended for sure.

Have you used spelt yet? If not I would give it a shot. It’s a high protein malted grain but it’s protein chains are shorter so it lends to stable haze and a softer mouthfeel

 

[LumberZach]

IFlaked oats and flaked wheat are fine around 20-30%, above that you may want to (just remember they are high in maganese and are mor susceptible to oxidation than their malted version)

For any raw whole grains, protein rest or enzymes would be recommended for sure.

Have you used spelt yet? If not I would give it a shot. It’s a high protein grain but it’s protein chains are shorter so it lends to stable haze and a softer mouthfeel

I have used spelt in the past, but for some reason I stopped using it. As far as oxidation goes, I have a fermonster and modified the lid so I can do pressurized transfers. I haven't had any issues with oxidation with that setup. I will be switching to fermenting in a Megamouth Torpedo keg. I'm having Bobby at BrewHardware weld a 2" triclover ferrule to the lid so I can use the dry hopper I build.

I made up a new recipe getting rid of the raw wheat and going with wheat malt. Here's the grain breakdown:

• 31.41% Rahr 2-Row
• 31.41% Briess Pilsen
• 18.84% Flaked Oats
• 12.56% Weyermann Pale Wheat Malt
• 5.34% Briess Flaked Wheat
• 0.44% Honey Malt

 

[Dgallo]

I have used spelt in the past, but for some reason I stopped using it. As far as oxidation goes, I have a fermonster and modified the lid so I can do pressurized transfers. I haven't had any issues with oxidation with that setup. I will be switching to fermenting in a Megamouth Torpedo keg. I'm having Bobby at BrewHardware weld a 2" triclover ferrule to the lid so I can use the dry hopper I build.

I made up a new recipe getting rid of the raw wheat and going with wheat malt. Here's the grain breakdown:

• 31.41% Rahr 2-Row
• 31.41% Briess Pilsen
• 18.84% Flaked Oats
• 12.56% Weyermann Pale Wheat Malt
• 5.34% Briess Flaked Wheat
• 0.44% Honey Malt

That setup really comes in handy. I’m still using it now, nearly 5 years later!

 

[Kold Brygg]

Yes it is. I brew 7 gallon batches. It’s a bag of rakau it was on sale. It smells amazing and it’s double the amount of oil than 24 harvest. Great bargain.

I've got a couple of batches with Waimea, Rakau and Nectaron.

Makes an amazing NZ IPA.
https://share.brewfather.app/HeaB0aa4yhPiQ6

 

[wepeeler]

IFlaked oats and flaked wheat are fine around 20-30%, above that you may want to (just remember they are high in maganese and are mor susceptible to oxidation than their malted version)

For any raw grains, protein rest or enzymes would be recommended for sure.

Have you used spelt yet? If not I would give it a shot. It’s a high protein malted grain but it’s protein chains are shorter so it lends to stable haze and a softer mouthfeel

Any experience with Chit? I was going to add 10% into my last recipe that did well at SNERHC. Same everything else.

 

[Dgallo]

Any experience with Chit? I was going to add 10% into my last recipe that did well at SNERHC. Same everything else.

Chit is malted so you could technically use it at a high rate. I never went higher than 30%, which is how much I used last time. Nice body but the beer wasn’t great, nothing special. The hops just weren’t that great. I’m sure if I was happier with how it came out I would of payed more attention to the body, but I was almost annoyed every time I drank it lol

 

[wepeeler]

Chit is malted so you could technically use it at a high rate. I never went higher than 30%, which is how much I used last time. Nice body but the beer wasn’t great, nothing special. The hops just weren’t that great. I’m sure if I was happier with how it came out I would of payed more attention to the body, but I was almost annoyed every time I drank it lol

Good thing I still have White Wheat left over!

 

[Dog House Brew]

I like chit around 15% w 8-10% malted wheat. Although I’ll be honest, I’ve been WC lately. Tastes change like the weather.

 

[Shenanigans]

Is spelt malt still in trend?
A few years ago I bought a 25Kg sack based on all the people on here raving about it.
Plus a sack worked out about 60% cheaper per kilo so was it was a no-brainer at the time.
I brewed 2 of my own NEIPA recipes with about 25% spelt, which turned out good.
Since then I have just done clone recipes or copied other HB recipes without spelt.
So I still have over 20kg of the stuff; maybe time to start using it again before it gets too old

 

[Dgallo]

Is spelt malt still in trend?
A few years ago I bought a 25Kg sack based on all the people on here raving about it.
Plus a sack worked out about 60% cheaper per kilo so was it was a no-brainer at the time.
I brewed 2 of my own NEIPA recipes with about 25% spelt, which turned out good.
Since then I have just done clone recipes or copied other HB recipes without spelt.
So I still have over 20kg of the stuff; maybe time to start using it again before it gets too old

I absolutely love what it brings to the table (I use spelt and oat in combination) but the cost and access to spelt is why I don’t use it more


The only place I know of that carries spelt it is Great fermentations and they just take too long to get your order for how my life is now. Typically takes 5-7 days for them to pull the order than another 3-5 in shipping. Usually I find out a day or so before that I will have time to brew lol