New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[Dgallo]

I'd like to
- Monitor my sparge pH fully this time.
- Dry-hop earlier, and at fermentation temp.
- Use ALDC with the dry-hop.

Monitoring sparge ph should be super easy to do as long as you know you starting water make up. I’m always 100% accurate on mine with Bru’n water.

Dryhoping ealier and at fermentation temps with likely have the same outcome you’re currently experiencing and will increase your hop-burn risk.

Using ALDC will prevent any diactyl and you can add it at yeast pitch or with the dryhop but it will be less likely to be mixed harmoniously at the time of the dryhop. Again, fine practice but not sure it would make a difference based on what your currently experiencing as you didn’t say you tasted movie theater popcorn nor butterscotch (unless I missed it in one of your posts)

 

[beervoid]

Thanks for the avatar shoutout! Long live the Supervillain.

RE: hopping in the serving keg while mitigating O2 exposure : I had a plan for this if I ever had to go this route. Right now I dry-hop through a 2" ferrule I have on my Torpedo Keg fermenter, via a butterfly valve and 2" hop-bong. I figured if I ever had to dry-hop in the serving keg (a "normal" corny), I'd find a lid that had or could accept a 1.5" minimum ferrule, get an adapter and lower-profile valve, and see if I could make it work. Thinking - push sani to purge and sanitize, drop the hops into the pressurized keg, and then fill. It would be cumbersome up top but should work.

It does sound like getting the yeast out of the way is a widely agreed upon method, which would eventually call for a second Torpedo for me. I emailed Bobby at BH to see what it would cost to put another one together for me, should I go that route.

I'll be honest - I've likely not given a ton of time between the soft crash and dry-hop. Maybe 2-3 days at max, which might not be enough for them to go fully dormant. I have one more batch I'm going to do this weekend with a few tweaks. Please, by all means, if anyone wants to lend a hop schedule for me I'd be all ears! Working with an inventory of Nelson, Riwaka, Citra, Mosaic, Cascade, CTZ in sufficient amounts.

I'd like to :

- Monitor my sparge pH fully this time.
- Dry-hop earlier, and at fermentation temp.
- Use ALDC with the dry-hop.

RIP villan

Which hops did you use the times you didnt like your beer. Maybe go for an all citra dryhop, citra is forgiving and always good.
Maybe you are setting the standard too high for yourself and the pro brewery had better hops?

 

[DevilsCups]

I've tried using many different varieties of hops, and even some single-hop beers. I've gone as far in the past to bring some hops home from the brewery as well.

 

[aaronm13]

Out of curiosity what should the pH of sparge water be? It's something I've ever thought about. I use RO water and usually add around 1ml of lactic acid. Brewing on Sunday so I must check this.

 

[tracer bullet]

Out of curiosity what should the pH of sparge water be? It's something I've ever thought about. I use RO water and usually add around 1ml of lactic acid. Brewing on Sunday so I must check this.

The idea is that for RO there is no meaningful pH, and you don't need to worry about it. The slight acid addition I know was certainly haggled about and recommended here a long while ago - I add 2.25ml of 10% per gallon based on those old conversations.

Would also be curious if today's thinking is any different. The knowledgeable brewers would be interesting to get their thoughts form. It could be a dedicated thread under the water / brew science section as well.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I've tried using many different varieties of hops, and even some single-hop beers. I've gone as far in the past to bring some hops home from the brewery as well.

What brewery do you work for?

 

[DevilsCups]

What brewery do you work for?

I used to brew for Obercreek in NY for a few years. I now have a much more boring job haha.

 

[Dgallo]

@aaronm13 you want a sparge ph of 5 - 6 ph. I personally target a 5.2 to help me hit 5.0 at KO.

The idea is that for RO there is no meaningful pH, and you don't need to worry about it. The slight acid addition I know was certainly haggled about and recommended here a long while ago - I add 2.25ml of 10% per gallon based on those old conversations.

Would also be curious if today's thinking is any different. The knowledgeable brewers would be interesting to get their thoughts form. It could be a dedicated thread under the water / brew science section as well.

lf you’re using RO water, the ph will not matter much unless you’re adding brewing salts to the sparging water. The reason for this is because the tds is so low, there’s nothing buffering the water ph, so when this water is added to the grain, it takes on practically the same ph as the grain bed.

Again this is only true if not adding salts. If your adding salts to your sparge water, then youll want to use water chemistry software, since those salts will now create buffer for the ph and depending on what and how much is added, you might need to adjust your ph

 

[Ulisses4677]

I used to brew for Obercreek in NY for a few years. I now have a much more boring job haha.

Obercreeck is pretty fire. I’ve only had the chance to try a few of their beers but did not disappoint. New York is also on . Great neipa producing state.

 

[DevilsCups]

Obercreeck is pretty fire. I’ve only had the chance to try a few of their beers but did not disappoint. New York is also on . Great neipa producing state.

Hey, thanks man! When I was with them, and still today, they try really, really hard with the limited means on the farm-space. I'd mostly solo-brew the pales there, and tag-team the bigger hoppy beers with the rest of the small team. Love that crew.

Knowing that, as you can tell I'm pretty peeved that I still have troubles at home haha. I pretty much replicate many of the practices (that make sense) from when I'd brew there.

 

[DevilsCups]

So, I'll be brewing again tomorrow to see if I can make some small tweaks, like I noted.

I'm thinking Simcoe, Citra and or Mosaic on the hot-side, and Riwaka / Nelson on the cold side. Anyone want to lend some hop amounts for a ~1.018-1.020 / 6.5%'er? It'll be 80% Sugar Creek Pale and 20% Floats.

Considering how I ferment and package these, any insight for the particular process would help too. I'm thinking to dry-hop twice this time, at ferm temp, and giving it more time in primary as well. Maybe 2 weeks total.

 

[aaronm13]

@aaronm13 you want a sparge ph of 5 - 6 ph. I personally target a 5.2 to help me hit 5.0 at KO.



lf you’re using RO water, the ph will not matter much unless you’re adding brewing salts to the sparging water. The reason for this is because the tds is so low, there’s nothing buffering the water ph, so when this water is added to the grain, it takes on practically the same ph as the grain bed.

Again this is only true if not adding salts. If your adding salts to your sparge water, then youll want to use water chemistry software, since those salts will now create buffer for the ph and depending on what and how much is added, you might need to adjust your ph

I use RO and Bru'n Water like you so I should be in the ballpark but I'll definitely check this out over the weekend when I brew. I'm going with your Rakau, Citra and Nelson recipe. Just got these hops from Hop Alliance so looking forward to seeing how the compare to YVH.

 

[Dwaynehaze]

So, I'll be brewing again tomorrow to see if I can make some small tweaks, like I noted.

I'm thinking Simcoe, Citra and or Mosaic on the hot-side, and Riwaka / Nelson on the cold side. Anyone want to lend some hop amounts for a ~1.018-1.020 / 6.5%'er? It'll be 80% Sugar Creek Pale and 20% Floats.

Considering how I ferment and package these, any insight for the particular process would help too. I'm thinking to dry-hop twice this time, at ferm temp, and giving it more time in primary as well. Maybe 2 weeks total.

Read a couple of your posts and wanna let you know I feel the same way about.leaving all my aroma behind in the fv. My next couple I'm just gonna do in kegs and see what happens. Everytime I add like 3 oz of loose hops to the keg I always get more aroma then when I add 4x the amount of hops in the fv

 

[Spetz]

Read a couple of your posts and wanna let you know I feel the same way about.leaving all my aroma behind in the fv. My next couple I'm just gonna do in kegs and see what happens. Everytime I add like 3 oz of loose hops to the keg I always get more aroma then when I add 4x the amount of hops in the fv

Same boat for sure. Have been solely keg hopping for a while now, but the absolute biggest downer for me is the hop absorption. It's manageable with lightly hopped beers, but anything over 8 - 10g/L just kills it for me, DIPAs at 15+/liter even worse. Been doing double batches and sometimes 1.5 batches (19L corny + 9.5L corny) to get around it, which is basically the equivalent of 1 full keg in the end, and more work/more co2/more purge stress.

I put together a 23.5L batch today with the intention to FV dry hop - will be hit with 240 grams before kegging - ruling out the option to keg hop, and leaving me with around 19L. Despite the fact my current or any previous FV's have never really produced the goods with dry hops, and the fact I always have and always will prefer keg hops until I change my FV, I just wanted to do a simple single batch. I think I do just actually prefer keg hopped beers regardless.

Anyway, totally not wanting to dry hop in the FV, this got me thinking and lead me to a slightly wonky and potentially stupid idea during brew day:

- Ferment, crash, drop yeast, etc etc

- Transfer beer (roughly 7-8L) to a safely purged and dry hopped 9.5L keg, leaving an inch or so of headspace - 14/15 degrees

- Transfer remaining beer (roughly around 14-15L I guess) to non dry hopped 19L serving keg, normal diptube (yay) - straight in the keezer under low CO2 to await further orders

- Agitate/flip the DH keg multiple times a day as usual for 3 - 4 days

- Thoroughly crash DH keg, transfer over to the mother keg where the dilution journey begins

(any mention of dry hopping in kegs = always loose + never bagged)

I guess it's not too dissimilar to the concept of using an infuser or recirculation system, just without pumps, and relying on simply hitting one beer with hops and diluting it with another thereafter. In the past I've thought about running 2 kegs in parallel using 1 as an infuser, but again it means pumps and hassle for small batches.

DOOM!

 

[DevilsCups]

All the love for DOOM in here is making me smile.

 

[NH81!]

Question for those that do dryhop in the serving keg, do you leave it out at room temp for a few days before cooling and carbing or do you immediately chill and carb it? And if you've done both what is your preference and why?

 

[Spetz]

Question for those that do dryhop in the serving keg, do you leave it out at room temp for a few days before cooling and carbing or do you immediately chill and carb it? And if you've done both what is your preference and why?

Most of mine I keep around 15c/59f for 3 - 4 days before chilling, but it depends on style and how concerned you are about hop creep, which, if at all, tends to occur more above those temperatures unless you've crashed first. Carbing for me usually begins the moment it hits the keg, depending on style.

 

[Dgallo]

Question for those that do dryhop in the serving keg, do you leave it out at room temp for a few days before cooling and carbing or do you immediately chill and carb it? And if you've done both what is your preference and why?

It’s all preference. But the warmer the temperature, the more active the yeast. This will increase your hopburn risk due to the hop creep that will occur to some extent at room temp. You also could experience muted hop character by adding dryhops with the yeast still present.

If I were going to dryhop in a serving keg my process would be the following;
1) after fermentation is complete and FG is stable, I would crash down to 50*f for 48hr (fulll 2 days once 50*f is met)
2) liquid purge serving keg that has a floating diptube installed.
3) load hops while running co2 down the liquid post of keg.
4) close up keg and do 1 or 2 purge cycles (for insurance) and then pressurize the keg to make sure it holds.
5) once beer is crashed in the fv, close transfer it into the preloaded and purged serving keg.
6) keep that keg around 50*f for 36 hours, inverting the keg every 8 hours or so.
7) then pit keg in the kegerator hooked up to gas to crash and carb up

 

[DevilsCups]

Brew day yesterday went…fine lol. It’s been a while since I’ve used a higher percentage of flaked oats, so recirc was slow to non-existent. I guess I need to up my rice hulls next time.

Starting at 1.069, hoping to land around 1.018ish. I just kept it simple with a smaller Idaho 7 whirlpool at 4oz / held at 165°F. Started fermentation at 68°F, it kicked off around 4 hours later, bumped this morning to 70°F. I did use ALDC this time just for giggles.

Now I just need to figure out this Nelson/Riwaka dry hop. I’d rather do it all post-ferm, but if anyone has objections to that I’m all ears. Also - what are we thinking, 10oz minimum?

 

[tracer bullet]

But the warmer the temperature, the more active the yeast. This will increase your hopburn risk due to the hop creep that will occur to some extent at room temp. You also could experience muted hop character by adding dryhops with the yeast still present.

Not that anyone here would doubt your expertise, but this is absolutely true. I've made a few beers recently where I haven't intentionally experimented with this, but have slowly transformed from my old methods (chuck in the dry hops whenever I feel like it including as early as high krausen) and then more recently done this (fermentation ends, cold crash until clear, then finally add dry hops). And holy cow what a huge difference.

 

[BongoYodeler]

What percentage of Spelt would you normally aim for on a DIPA?

I use about 15-20% if pairing it with oats and 30% if by itself

I know these posts are a bit older, but I've been tweaking a neipa recipe that I plan to brew, probably sometime next month. I'm interested in the percentage of spelt in a neipa recipe for those who have used it. I've not used it before, but have read that it can impart a nutty and/or spicy flavor. My question - are those flavors evident at percentages above 5 or 10%? Say 20 or 30%? I'd like to try it but still stay within style with the flavor. But if it's just more of a background, subtle taste I can see where it would still work. I have a few pounds coming next week. Once I'm finished tweaking my recipe I'll post it in this thread for peer review.

 

[Dgallo]

I know these posts are a bit older, but I've been tweaking a neipa recipe that I plan to brew, probably sometime next month. I'm interested in the percentage of spelt in a neipa recipe for those who have used it. I've not used it before, but have read that it can impart a nutty and/or spicy flavor. My question - are those flavors evident at percentages above 5 or 10%? Say 20 or 30%? I'd like to try it but still stay within style with the flavor. But if it's just more of a background, subtle taste I can see where it would still work. I have a few pounds coming next week. Once I'm finished tweaking my recipe I'll post it in this thread for peer review.

I think a good target is about 20%. At 30 percent I perceive a bit of “spicyness” almost like rye but not as intense. Kinda makes it seem like there’s some lingering hopburn.

I would suggest something like;

70% 2row
20% spelt
10% flaked oat, flaked wheat, or malted oat/wheat

Or

67% 2row
20% spelt
10% flaked or malted oat/wheat
3% honey malt

 

[BongoYodeler]

I think a good target is about 20%. At 30 percent I perceive a bit of “spicyness” almost like rye but not as intense. Kinda makes it seem like there’s some lingering hopburn.

I would suggest something like;

70% 2row
20% spelt
10% flaked oat, flaked wheat, or malted oat/wheat

Or

67% 2row
20% spelt
10% flaked or malted oat/wheat
3% honey malt

Thanks!! I'll play around with percentages and post something in a day or two. IPA's have been my nemesis as mine typically turn out fair to decent but nothing yet that gets me excited. Hopefully my latest upgrade, a corny keg-mounted hop bong will help to take things to the next level.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks!! I'll play around with percentages and post something in a day or two. IPA's have been my nemesis as mine typically turn out fair to decent but nothing yet that gets me excited. Hopefully my latest upgrade, a corny keg-mounted hop bong will help to take things to the next level.

Hoping I’m not coming off condescending at all with my next statement as I don’t mean to at all. But if you use one of those 2 grain bills with proper yeast health for a fermentation and can limit o2 post ferm, you will make a great beer. If theres an issue and the beer doesn’t come out great, we can then begin to dig deeper into yourl process to see what other variables could be an issue.

I’ve made the final table of NHC in 22 & 23 with that exact grainbill (just can’t seem to get any hardware lol ) so I know it works

 

[BongoYodeler]

Hoping I’m not coming off condescending at all with my next statement as I don’t mean to at all. But if you use one of those 2 grain bills with proper yeast health for a fermentation and can limit o2 post ferm, you will make a great beer. If theres an issue and the beer doesn’t come out great, we can then begin to dig deeper into yourl process to see what other variables could be an issue.

I’ve made the final table of NHC in 22 & 23 with that exact grainbill (just can’t seem to get any hardware lol ) so I know it works

Not at all @Dgallo it's just that I have a couple challenges many others don't face. First, I don't have a dedicated fermentation chamber, (no room), I'm forced to use a Cool Brewing Fermentation Cooler to ferment in. While it does work ok at keeping temperatures well within the yeast's temperature range, usually +/- 2° it takes babysitting. I've also used it to successfully cold crash down to 48° Secondly, I no longer have any local options for buying liquid yeast. Two local-ish shops went out of business, and my closest shop seems to be moving towards dry only, and with MoreBeer moving out of state, there goes my 1 to 2 day shipping for liquid. These are not insurmountable issues for sure. Moving to kegging was a big step forward. The ability to pressure transfer off the yeast was another positive step. And most recently the the addition of a corny hop bong setup helped clear another hurdle. I'm finally ready to try a neipa again, probably with dry yeast though.

 

[agentbud]

I’ve made the final table of NHC in 22 & 23 with that exact grainbill (just can’t seem to get any hardware lol ) so I know it works

Just out of curiosity, and if you are willing to share, when you made the final table those years, were you using the honey malt or no? And for the 10% addition, did you use flaked oat, flaked wheat, or malted oat/wheat (or do think it really matters?)

 

[anteater8]

Just out of curiosity, and if you are willing to share, when you made the final table those years, were you using the honey malt or no? And for the 10% addition, did you use flaked oat, flaked wheat, or malted oat/wheat (or do think it really matters?)

I'm certainly no @Dgallo but you got me curious about my luck with different grain bills in competition, so here it is for whatever its worth!

2 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze (Braufessor)
14 lb 2 row
3 lb flaked oats
0.75 lb wheat
0.25 lb honey malt

1 gold, 1 bronze (Trillium clone)
12.5 lb 2 Row
2.5 lb Wheat
0.7 lb Sugar
0.5 lb Carapils
0.5 lb Crystal 15

1 gold (my Milkshake recipe)
12 lb 2 row
3 lb Malted oats
3 lb Flaked oats
0.5 Wheat
0.7 lb Lactose

 

[Dgallo]

Just out of curiosity, and if you are willing to share, when you made the final table those years, were you using the honey malt or no? And for the 10% addition, did you use flaked oat, flaked wheat, or malted oat/wheat (or do think it really matters?)

I can give you a definite answer tonight but I would bet they were (23’ could have been oats and spelt but probably the same%);

67% 2row
15% malted oats
15% malted wheat
3% honey malt

 

[Dgallo]

I can give you a definite answer tonight but I would bet they were (23’ could have been oats and spelt but probably the same%);

67% 2row
15% malted oats
15% malted wheat
3% honey malt

@agentbud that was the grainbill almost exactly

 

[agentbud]

@agentbud that was the grainbill almost exactly

Thanks for sharing